Speculation: Who is really running Hockey Ops to close out the season?

[Soundwave]

There's no way Chia wasn't involving the two previous GM's sitting in the same room as him in any decision making.

And what good was Chia if he didn't know any better or less than Mac T and Lowe?

Wasn't the big hype on him that he supposedly knew how to build a contender? My ass he did.

Paid 3 million a season for a GM worse than Lowe. I'd rather have had Lowe manage the team in the case. At least he was able to find a dman or two without selling the shirt off his back.

 

[CupofOil]

There's no way Chia wasn't involving the two previous GM's sitting in the same room as him in any decision making.

Of course as is the case with every organization but he makes the final decision just like the president of every organization from running a country to running a sports team.

This follows the Chia pattern to a T with the emphasis on heaviness and grit to trading away high end skill to leaving his team in cap hell. To expand further, he brought in his Boston guys with Lucic, Spooner and Cave. There's no way that MacT, Lowe, Howson or whoever had Spooner and Cave on their must have list. Those are Chia guys, this is Chia,'s mess. The last decade plus? Well, that's another story

 

[MikeGrier99]

MacT being in a position of power with the Oilers, which is a reasonable assumption, to him being in the position of power.

Either is disgusting. Change the entire roster 3-4 times. Continuously cycle through coaches. Cycle through first overall picks. Fire everyone but the people who are responsible for everything. They're making it incredibly hard to be an Oiler fan. Literally every other single market, except perhaps Winnipeg, would've abandoned the Oilers by now. No matter what happens in the future this will be a serious embarrassment and black mark on the franchise for the rest of hockey history.

 

[Hugo McStiglitz]

Presented without comment.

 

[guymez]

Yes, the website listing is vague unless it specifically shows a hierarchy listing. Titles are also vague. My point being, we don't know who reports to whom right now, and why clutch our pearls about it until some actual evidence surfaces?

Well its commonly known that POHO and Vice POHO oversees all of hockey operations and is part of the Management chain that the GM reports to.

The real point being...why is MacT immune to accountability and dismissal and why is he allowed to be in a power position regardless of who gets fired?

If I was contemplating buying season tickets I sure would want to know the answer to these questions because its people like MacT and Lowe and Howsen who are the common denominators through all of these dysfunctional years.

As for the website....why bother posting anything if its all obscured by BS?

 

[MikeGrier99]

Presented without comment.

Craig's on it!

 

[rboomercat90]

Craig's on it!

Dallas told us he was and he was right.

 

[TheSpecialist]

This organization is a huge f**kin joke and you would have to be a complete idiot if it didn't even cross your mind that MacT has more seniority than Keith Gretzky in the org. chart and is now running the show. Its things like this that seasons ticket holders need to be well knowledgeable about before they really start to point fingers.

The sad thing is that this gets greatly overlooked by the fans who think that Chiarelli was the sole problem of the awful decisions made regarding player personnal. And no media person in Edmonton who has access to the team even has the balls to bring this up on TV, radio or even the papers because they don't want their media privilages taken away from them.

So here's another F**k MacT, F**k Kevin Lowe, F**k Bob Nicholson and last but not least F**k Daryl Katz for running this team down the sewer. As long as those morons are around, I think us fans would be better off with an expansion team.

 

[guymez]

Dallas told us he was and he was right.

He did but little did we know that it would last for an eternity.

 

[Tyrolean]

Katz at least pays the bills. Without him, we don't have a team here. Once he stops making money and the fans revolt, by staying away, then things will change. Until then it is the status quo. I doubt anythings changes, just hope for luck.

 

[rboomercat90]

He did but little did we know that it would last for an eternity.

He did say it was going to take 5 years to fix this mess. He may have been a bit generous with that time frame though.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

He did but little did we know that it would last for an eternity.

We all knew he'd get on it.

Sometimes it just takes a while for people to get off, though.

 

[Little Fury]

I don't think that's necessarily true. The Detroit Red Wings had a fabulous stretch where they were the gold standard for player development in the National Hockey League. They also turned assistants into full time NHL coaches, scouts, managers on other franchises. Their 'culture' of over ripening young talent created one of the most successful franchises in this era, top to bottom. Their successes literally rolled onto other franchises.

The Wings also had the luxury of falling into one of the greatest collections of on-ice talent ever and consistently ranked in the top end of the league in payroll. So yeah, it's pretty easy to let your prospects develop when you can roll out 7 or 8 highly paid Hall of Fame talents on a nightly basis instead. The rest kinda flows from that. It also helps to have real hockey people like Scotty Bowman involved instead of chumps like Chiarelli. Notice how the "culture" there doesn't seem to be producing many winners now that they aren't pulling G.O.A.T.s out of the 8th round of the draft.

Over the past 13 seasons our team has literally done the opposite. In the salary cap era when you rush the prospects, they end up underdeveloped, overwhelmed, overplayed and overpaid. That combination results in poor on-ice results and your fans eventually turning on them and pushing them out of town at ridiculously low costs. As a result the team is always struggling to ice a roster with sufficient depth, reaching to the inflationary UFA market to fill key roles from a limited selection of players.

And the Oilers simply haven't had the luxury of insulating young players with actual NHL talent. I highly doubt that's by design. It's more a result of their incompetence in the realms of drafting and talent evaluation. Everything flows from their inability to identify, develop and retain good hockey players. You could, I suppose, that that itself is cultural in so far as they chase "character" instead of talent (and, ironically, end up with neither). But a good step to changing the culture is to stop worrying about the culture.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

What a farce that mact is doing stuff.

 

[NegativeNelly]

What a farce that mact is doing stuff.

MacT scouting and assessment skills brought us elite talent, like Nikitin, Reinhart and almost Clarkson.... I sure feel safe with him running the team. Past results don't seem to matter to the vice chairs.

 

[guymez]

He did say it was going to take 5 years to fix this mess. He may have been a bit generous with that time frame though.

In his defence he didnt mention a start date.

Eakins was right about 3 things when he was here....

1) That the current version of the Org needed to separate itself a little more from the past
2) That MacT was on it (and likely will be forever)
3) That he was sold a bill of goods prior to coming to Edmonton.
Correct on all 3 points.

We know a little something about being sold a bill of goods....its been going on since Katz has owned the team.

Say what you want about how frustrating it was to watch the team under EIG's ownership. Yes the team couldnt afford high end players BUT the team and the ownership was honest.
You always knew that team was going to give an honest effort and you always knew what to expect.

Since Katz has bought the team the exact opposite has been true.

 

[Stoneman89]

In his defence he didnt mention a start date.

Eakins was right about 3 things when he was here....

1) That the current version of the Org needed to separate itself a little more from the past
2) That MacT was on it (and likely will be forever)
3) That he was sold a bill of goods prior to coming to Edmonton.
Correct on all 3 points.

We know a little something about being sold a bill of goods....its been going on since Katz has owned the team.

Say what you want about how frustrating it was to watch the team under EIG's ownership. Yes the team couldnt afford high end players BUT the team and the ownership was honest.
You always knew that team was going to give an honest effort and you always knew what to expect.

Since Katz has bought the team the exact opposite has been true.

Plus, drinks were way cheaper.

 

[guymez]

Plus, drinks were way cheaper.

Man...so much truth in that. Everything with this team was much better value back then.

I mean you knew the team was short on talent but damn I sure appreciated and respected the effort.
I was proud of that team.

Its the opposite now.
I am embarrassed by this team and it has the best player on the planet.

 

[rboomercat90]

In his defence he didnt mention a start date.

Eakins was right about 3 things when he was here....

1) That the current version of the Org needed to separate itself a little more from the past
2) That MacT was on it (and likely will be forever)
3) That he was sold a bill of goods prior to coming to Edmonton.
Correct on all 3 points.

We know a little something about being sold a bill of goods....its been going on since Katz has owned the team.

Say what you want about how frustrating it was to watch the team under EIG's ownership. Yes the team couldnt afford high end players BUT the team and the ownership was honest.
You always knew that team was going to give an honest effort and you always knew what to expect.

Since Katz has bought the team the exact opposite has been true.

You’re bang on here with everything.

The comment about the bill of goods thing is interesting. I’ve felt that was the case here since 2010 and I’ve stopped supporting the team financially since around that time. I don’t think this organization has been about the on ice product since at least then and I don’t think fans are willing to accept it or even acknowledge it.


Just to clarify, I don’t think ownership cares one way or another how the on ice product looks and runs the club without a real interest in improving it provided the season ticket holders are renewing every year. What that means is there won’t be a search to find the very best candidate to run the team. The search will be to find the guy with the best name recognition to keep the season ticket holders happy.

 

[guymez]

You’re bang on here with everything.

The comment about the bill of goods thing is interesting. I’ve felt that was the case here since 2010 and I’ve stopped supporting the team financially since around that time. I don’t think this organization has been about the on ice product since at least then and I don’t think fans are willing to accept it or even acknowledge it.


Just to clarify, I don’t think ownership cares one way or another how the on ice product looks and runs the club without a real interest in improving it provided the season ticket holders are renewing every year. What that means is there won’t be a search to find the very best candidate to run the team. The search will be to find the guy with the best name recognition to keep the season ticket holders happy.

I suspect that you are right about everything but one thing confuses me. Part of the reason Katz bought the team was because it was a toy. He could own the team and play a big mans role and chum around with all the boys on the bus. I have no issue with that...it must be incredibly fun to be in that position. You would think though that winning and developing a foundation that invites winning would be important.
It sure doesnt seem to be.
In terms of the money making aspects of the team...he has used that wisely. He then used that as leverage to expand his property ownership and make money off of the downtown development in a downtown that was in a desperate need for something to happen. I actually dont begrudge him at all for making money on the property investments or the team. Good for him. I am good with that as well.

What irks me is that he is taking advantage of a very loyal fan base by continuing to prioritize his fantasy about the team over the reality of the situation.
He owes it to this city and this fan base to operate the team in a transparent manner. A manner that invites scrutiny. The team isnt an average business...it isnt the same as the property development side of OEG.
The Oilers are a different entity. Maybe part of the problem is that Katz has enmeshed the Oilers with everything else EOG is invloved in and so they are being run in the same veiled manner.
I dont know for sure but I do know that he needs to treat this team in a way that invites confidence...a way that allows the community to feel like they are an important part of the team. This city and its fans are so emotionally connected to this team they deserve a higher standard of transparency and accountability than what Katz has delivered on so far.
I know for me having an honest team is THE most important quality a team can have. Its foundational.
This team lacks that and I place that squarely at the feet of Daryl Katz.

 

[smokersarejokers]

MacT scouting and assessment skills brought us elite talent, like Nikitin, Reinhart and almost Clarkson.... I sure feel safe with him running the team. Past results don't seem to matter to the vice chairs.

Man, I forgot about Clarkson. Holy cow that would have been rough.

I'm sure Howson had a lot to do with Nikitin and SURPRISE! he's still here too.

 

[rboomercat90]

I suspect that you are right about everything but one thing confuses me. Part of the reason Katz bought the team was because it was a toy. He could own the team and play a big mans role and chum around with all the boys on the bus. I have no issue with that...it must be incredibly fun to be in that position. You would think though that winning and developing a foundation that invites winning would be important.
It sure doesnt seem to be.
In terms of the money making aspects of the team...he has used that wisely. He then used that as leverage to expand his property ownership and make money off of the downtown development in a downtown that was in a desperate need for something to happen. I actually dont begrudge him at all for making money on the property investments or the team. Good for him. I am good with that as well.

What irks me is that he is taking advantage of a very loyal fan base by continuing to prioritize his fantasy about the team over the reality of the situation.
He owes it to this city and this fan base to operate the team in a transparent manner. A manner that invites scrutiny. The team isnt an average business...it isnt the same as the property development side of OEG.
The Oilers are a different entity. Maybe part of the problem is that Katz has enmeshed the Oilers with everything else EOG is invloved in and so they are being run in the same veiled manner.
I dont know for sure but I do know that he needs to treat this team in a way that invites confidence...a way that allows the community to feel like they are an important part of the team. This city and its fans are so emotionally connected to this team they deserve a higher standard of transparency and accountability than what Katz has delivered on so far.
I know for me having an honest team is THE most important quality a team can have. Its foundational.
This team lacks that and I place that squarely at the feet of Daryl Katz.

I question whether he bought the team as a toy or just to use as leverage for his real estate plans. Seems to me that if it was as a toy he’d be more involved. If not in a meddling way then in a vanity way. He may have interest in the eighties players and that team but there sure hasn’t been much made public about his interest in the players or the team since he’s owned it.

He’s done very well financially with the real estate development downtown, none of that happens for him if he didn’t own the team. As every year goes by it gets harder for me to believe there was any other reason for him to buy them.

 

[Samus44]

My assumption is Kevin Lowe, with Keith Gretzky as the face since lowe has a poor reputation with fans and other gms. Lowe makes the decisions then gets Keith to make the calls.

Though job title suggests mac t, so it could be him.

As someone's who's followed the team closely i just don't see it, since Lowe stepped down as GM (and a successful run at that) the teams GM's have had VERY distinct styles. Tambellini was not proactive at all and basically sat on his hands, then MacT came in and was pretty aggressive for better and for worse but other than Petry (smh) really didn't move on from core players instead trying aggressively to find high upside and often unconventional bargains (Scrivens, Fasth, Belov, Grebeshkov, ect...), and then Chiarelli (the worst of them all) went full Pejorative Slur and traded highly valuable core pieces for players he deemed needed. All 3 i truly believe from looking on the outside in were clearly distinct enough for me to clearly think they all were in charge of their own fates and the direction of the team.

In saying that i don't doubt there's been some influence from the "OBC" at times, even if unintentional as Brian Burke alluded to on Oilers Now the other day. I do think Lowe had considerable power during the Tambo era but i also think those days are gone and now he's simply the Bobby Clarke of the Oilers now. I don't think MacT is the guy in charge of the team right now, i do think it's Gretzky. From all reports MacT is invloved more heavily in the overseeing of the procurement and development of players from the Minors, while Howson is doing his work with prospects abroad. I think it's pretty clear that Chiarelli was a moron and his mistakes were his own, i also think it's pretty clear that the one guy who's thus far seemed reasonably competent has been Gretzky (at least in terms of the amateur side) and thus it would only make sense given his previous role and body of work that he would be the guy.

I just think some of you let your frustrations get in the way of the reality of the situation. They probably should clean house of the OBC in terms of roles within hockey ops and they certainly shouldn't be beyond criticism for this, they've had influence, but i think we need to be honest about where the buck's been stopping. Tambo was a do-nothing GM and Chiarelli was an idiot who made some disastrous moves completely of his own volition. If the OBC was really in charge i have a hard time thinking MacT would have been cool buying out Pouliot or moving Gordon for Korpikoski (Another 2 idiot moves). It sucks whats happened here but i also think its pretty clear that there isn't likely some outrageous conspiracy taking place, it's simply been 2 really incompetent GM's sandwiching a guy who tried to be bold but failed in his attempts to make meaningful moves without giving up the farm sort-a-speak.

 

[Samus44]

During his NHL career...absolutely.

Correction/admission - all of them being used incorrectly as a figure of speech. There were a lot of them who didnt, not all as initially stated.

No there really wasn't, it was like 1 maybe 2 guys per team in the 80's and basically nobody by the 90's. Nothing wrong with not knowing something or being wrong but it is pretty dumb to double down on something that isn't true.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

As someone's who's followed the team closely i just don't see it, since Lowe stepped down as GM (and a successful run at that) the teams GM's have had VERY distinct styles. Tambellini was not proactive at all and basically sat on his hands, then MacT came in and was pretty aggressive for better and for worse but other than Petry (smh) really didn't move on from core players instead trying aggressively to find high upside and often unconventional bargains (Scrivens, Fasth, Belov, Grebeshkov, ect...), and then Chiarelli (the worst of them all) went full ****** and traded highly valuable core pieces for players he deemed needed. All 3 i truly believe from looking on the outside in were clearly distinct enough for me to clearly think they all were in charge of their own fates and the direction of the team.

In saying that i don't doubt there's been some influence from the "OBC" at times, even if unintentional as Brian Burke alluded to on Oilers Now the other day. I do think Lowe had considerable power during the Tambo era but i also think those days are gone and now he's simply the Bobby Clarke of the Oilers now. I don't think MacT is the guy in charge of the team right now, i do think it's Gretzky. From all reports MacT is invloved more heavily in the overseeing of the procurement and development of players from the Minors, while Howson is doing his work with prospects abroad. I think it's pretty clear that Chiarelli was a moron and his mistakes were his own, i also think it's pretty clear that the one guy who's thus far seemed reasonably competent has been Gretzky (at least in terms of the amateur side) and thus it would only make sense given his previous role and body of work that he would be the guy.

I just think some of you let your frustrations get in the way of the reality of the situation. They probably should clean house of the OBC in terms of roles within hockey ops and they certainly shouldn't be beyond criticism for this, they've had influence, but i think we need to be honest about where the buck's been stopping. Tambo was a do-nothing GM and Chiarelli was an idiot who made some disastrous moves completely of his own volition. If the OBC was really in charge i have a hard time thinking MacT would have been cool buying out Pouliot or moving Gordon for Korpikoski (Another 2 idiot moves). It sucks whats happened here but i also think its pretty clear that there isn't likely some outrageous conspiracy taking place, it's simply been 2 really incompetent GM's sandwiching a guy who tried to be bold but failed in his attempts to make meaningful moves without giving up the farm sort-a-speak.

this still reeks of Kevin Lowe just trying random takes.