Who is our worst defenseman?

[Tom Hanks]

I love ya @ziggyjoe212 but you lost me at "Maatta is always rock in the playoffs" because that's exactly what he is not. In the 2017 run, he was probably our worst dman and we had a Letang-less defense. He was abused in the Ottawa series.

Absolutely not. While you feel sometimes people on boards say stuff to agree with others, people who say Maatta has been a rock in the playoffs are turning a blind eye.

It’s kind of funny you say that he was our worst D man in the playoffs. I thought he was our best until the cup final. At the end of the playoffs I had Dumo as our best but I had Maatta 2nd. Weird how we get such a varied opinion. That was strictly from the eye test too (and memory ) I didn’t look at any stats at all.

I didn’t think he was that great in 15/16 though.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I thought 16-17 was the better of his two runs and that he was our best dman who doesn't like drinking three beers at the same time during it. Weird how the eye test goes here.

He's also got the lowest GA/60 of any of our dmen other than Lovejoy since 15-16. I'd agree that he's been up and down in the play-offs, but I think he's been more up than down.

We were pretty much typing out the same thing as your first paragraph at the same time.

 

[PensandCaps]

Maatta is still better than Johnson, we've actually seen Maatta be very good...just last season.

I think Maatta-Riikola could be good, Maatta just needs to stop pinching.


Oleksiak is the worst.

Johnson atleast is physical and has looked decent in playoff like games where the refs let him play with a bit of a 1998 game.

 

[PensandCaps]

I thought Maatta was really good in the 17' run. Just had a few highlights on him. I'd say he was just as good as Dumo and Cole were.

He was bad in 16' run.

 

[IcedCapp]

that chart is gonna make me rethink my belief in advanced stats

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

I honestly can't pick one. It's probably different on any given night.

Maatta is probably more consistent defensively than Olek but I think when Maatta shits the bed he does it in spectacular fashion and at the worst times.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Go and watch the 2017 playoff series highlights vs Columbus. Or any Pens vs Columbus game. Johnson is on the ice for like every goal, out of position or simply chasing a guy around the net. It’s like every damn goal man.

It’s not a coincidence he gets scored on all the time every year.

Exactly.

Bad things tend to happen when JJ is on the ice. Sometimes they aren't directly his fault, but it's usually no coincidence things begin unraveling for his team when he's out there.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I love ya @ziggyjoe212 but you lost me at "Maatta is always rock in the playoffs" because that's exactly what he is not. In the 2017 run, he was probably our worst dman and we had a Letang-less defense. He was abused in the Ottawa series.

Absolutely not. While you feel sometimes people on boards say stuff to agree with others, people who say Maatta has been a rock in the playoffs are turning a blind eye.

This is a great example of the disconnect between HF Penguins and reality. Maatta is having a rough season, but groupthink is a powerful thing, powerful enough to change the past apparently.

Maybe you can only remember one goal in the Ottawa series, but Maatta was their best Dman overall in rounds 2 and 3.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Yea, it's tough to pick depending on if you're going right at this very moment? Their full careers? In the future?

None of it really matters.
2 of the 3 gots ta go and probably 3 of the 3 in the longer term.

 

[SouthGeorge]

I know this is about defenseman but Brassard fan club got some explaining to do...

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Am I the only person who thought Maatta had a strong season last year and his strongest since Sully got here? I see a lot of talk about ongoing regression, but last season I saw a decided uptick...

I thought he was super consistent all throughout 2017-18 too.

 

[IcedCapp]

consistent doesn't inherently have a positive connotation

 

[Gurglesons]

I know this is about defenseman but Brassard fan club got some explaining to do...

He’s being used in a role he’s not used to. Brassard isn’t costing us games. What’s the issue?

If you get a good trade move him. If not, he has the chance to blow up if he gets some steady line mates.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

consistent doesn't inherently have a positive connotation

Fair, but as long as people don't pretend to not understand what I meant, then I don't really care.

 

[Slaaapshuter]

When also weighing in financials Määttä takes home the cake for me.

 

[ColePens]

This is a great example of the disconnect between HF Penguins and reality. Maatta is having a rough season, but groupthink is a powerful thing, powerful enough to change the past apparently.

Maybe you can only remember one goal in the Ottawa series, but Maatta was their best Dman overall in rounds 2 and 3.

Yeah I'll disagree. That year was interesting, too. I thought Hainsey was terrific and argued @pixiesfanyo a lot regarding it. I thought Maatta was our weakest link. But being the weakest link of that group was still stepping up and playing well enough. But he was the one that bent the most without breaking.

With that being said - I'm either the dumbest poster on HF (very possible) or i'm on to something. Defense was what I played since I was 4. I studied the position like crazy. I'm trusting my eyes and trusting my gut on this. But hey... i'll agree to disagree. I'm either the dumbest poster or i'm seeing something others don't.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Maatta. I think he's the only player in the NHL I can confidently say I can beat in a foot race.

He's the only player on the Pens who is physically stressful for me to watch because I feel like I have to lean forward on my couch to push him along every time he's slogging through mud.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yeah I'll disagree. That year was interesting, too. I thought Hainsey was terrific and argued @pixiesfanyo a lot regarding it. I thought Maatta was our weakest link. But being the weakest link of that group was still stepping up and playing well enough. But he was the one that bent the most without breaking.

With that being said - I'm either the dumbest poster on HF (very possible) or i'm on to something. Defense was what I played since I was 4. I studied the position like crazy. I'm trusting my eyes and trusting my gut on this. But hey... i'll agree to disagree. I'm either the dumbest poster or i'm seeing something others don't.

Maatta's game is the easiest to evaluate on video. You don't even have to pause or slow down the footage in order to point out his mistakes.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah I'll disagree. That year was interesting, too. I thought Hainsey was terrific and argued @pixiesfanyo a lot regarding it. I thought Maatta was our weakest link. But being the weakest link of that group was still stepping up and playing well enough. But he was the one that bent the most without breaking.

With that being said - I'm either the dumbest poster on HF (very possible) or i'm on to something. Defense was what I played since I was 4. I studied the position like crazy. I'm trusting my eyes and trusting my gut on this. But hey... i'll agree to disagree. I'm either the dumbest poster or i'm seeing something others don't.

Woah woah woah woah woah.

I was a huge supporter of Hainsey. Still am tbh.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Maatta by a mile. He can't skate at anything close to an NHL level.

That alone makes him the worst. But that lack of foot speed causes him to make stupid decisions with the puck because he can't skate it out of danger.

He's brutal right now.

 

[Turin]

Guys.

Put Oleksiak in Maatta’s spot in 2017 and late 2016 and we don’t win any Cups. Not one.

 

[ColePens]

Woah woah woah woah woah.

I was a huge supporter of Hainsey. Still am tbh.

Well now I don't know what is real. I fought someone over Hainsey. People claimed he was the worst defender and that was utter bullshit. The dude was playing like 3 spots above his actual ability and doing amazing things with it. It wasn't the prettiest, but it worked.

 

[Gurglesons]

Well now I don't know what is real. I fought someone over Hainsey. People claimed he was the worst defender and that was utter bull****. The dude was playing like 3 spots above his actual ability and doing amazing things with it. It wasn't the prettiest, but it worked.

Yeah, I was one of the people doing that as well.

Hainsey was great here. That goal in Game 5 gave me all the satisfaction in the world to the “we are done, Hainsey can’t move a puck” crowd.

 

[Pancakes]

Guys.

Put Oleksiak in Maatta’s spot in 2017 and late 2016 and we don’t win any Cups. Not one.

That's true. Maatta is arguably worse than Oleksiak right now though.

 

[IcedCapp]

Guys.

Put Oleksiak in Maatta’s spot in 2017 and late 2016 and we don’t win any Cups. Not one.

But this isn’t 2016/2017

However, I’ll concede your underlying point and just point to @ColePens earlier post on usage.

(However, I believe Maatta continues to get worse because The League keeps getting faster, but he stays the saaaaaame speeeeeeed)

Edit: overused “point” and “however.” I’m the Olli Maatta of posters