Prospect Info: Who is Canucks #9 prospect?

[Pip]

these rankings are ass.

Literally no one cares

These rankings are all over the place because the majority of people are voting based on NHL readiness and a good chunk of people are voting based on how valuable a prospect is. Next time it should be made clear how we are evaluating our prospects... I believe we should be voting based on asset value.

IMO, NHL readiness should play into their value, so there isn't really a need to separate the two. A prospect should be more valuable if they're closer to the NHL, you just have the weight their upside against the younger, more bustable prospects,

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

these rankings are ass.

They aren't bad other than Jensen being 3-4 spots too high

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Lol @ anyone who says this isn't the best group of prospects we've ever had.

 

[MS]

Lol @ anyone who says this isn't the best group of prospects we've ever had.

There's a thread on this, but it's pretty clearly not. And not really all that close.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

These rankings are all over the place because the majority of people are voting based on NHL readiness and a good chunk of people are voting based on how valuable a prospect is. Next time it should be made clear how we are evaluating our prospects... I believe we should be voting based on asset value.

Based on asset value:

1) Horvat
2) Virtanen
3) Shinkaruk
4) McCaan
5) Demko
6) Jensen
7) Vey
8) Corrado
9) Gaunce
10) Cassels

Based on NHL Readiness:
1) Vey
2) Corrado
3) Jensen
4) Horvat
5) Zalewski
6) Lain
7) Shinkaruk
8) Gaunce
9) Archibald
10) Virtanen

Your asset value seems reasonable, and your readiness list is okay, although I'd argue that Lain and Archibald are longshot to ever even get 100+ NHL games.

Here's my list in order of 2014-15 NHL appearance likelihood (a combinations of readiness, positions available, best situation for further development and contract status) ...

1) Vey
2) Corrado
3) Gaunce
4) Jensen
5) Horvat
6) Zalewski
7) Fox
8) Mceneny
9) Shinkaruk
10) Lain / Archibald / someone else

 

[Wolfhard]

We're talking 9th best prospect right now and the best goaltending prospect in last year's draft, who was supposed to go in the 1st round, still hasn't been picked.

Nor, Hutton.

That is 10 solid Prospects.

Then we have at least 5 wildcards: Subban, Cassels, Fox, McEneny, Eriksson, McNally
All of which IMO are valuable prospects in our system, maybe McNally.

We have about 10 solid prospects and 5 prospects with potential to make a solid NHL impact. That is excellent.

9. Thatcher Demko
10. Hutton
11. Cassels
12. Fox
13. Erikksson
14. McEneny
15. Subban
16. and on will never see NHL light of day barring miracle.

Though I personally flip Hutton and Demko, I 100% agree with the order of the rest.

I flip Hutton and Demko, because I think that while Demko has a higher ceiling, goalies are a bit less predictable, and I'm more certain of Hutton being a legitimate player at this point.

 

[timw33]

Next 3 names should be Demko/Hutton/Fox but I'm torn on what the order should be.

Common sense says the #36 overall pick should be here, hype and upside/development says it should be Hutton .... but my gut says Fox is the best prospect and would be the one I would be most troubled to trade away right now.

I always find people weigh recent picks too heavily just based on potential, whereas we have picks who have developed very well since draft (Hutton, can argue Cassel has been a nice surprise) who do deserve to be ranked pretty well.

I have to say Hutton Demko Fox Cassels here.

 

[MS]

I always find people weight recent picks too heavily just based on potential, whereas we have picks who have developed very well since draft (Hutton, can argue Cassel has been a nice surprise) who do deserve to be ranked pretty well.

I have to say Hutton Demko Fox Cassels here.

That's how I had those 4 ranked when I put together a list just after the draft (although I had Zalewski in between Fox and Cassels) but then I watch Fox shoot the puck, note how he's a couple years closer to the NHL .... and it's difficult for me to rate him lower.

Until I see Hutton play credible defense against pros, I have a hard time getting too excited about him. Very disappointed he didn't sign this summer.

 

[thefeebster]

They're better than the HF rankings and better than the fan rankings from last year (remember the Blomstrand hype?).

I think the correct 8 guys are in the top 8, although Jensen is about 3-4 spots too high. And it looks like the same 11 guys I'd have as my top 11 will end up in those positions here.

RE: Blomstrand, i believe the hype was warranted. His allsvenskan numbers with Almtuna were absolutely a reason for optimism. Once put in a position to score, he was not far off from Wennberg or Aberg. He was 5th in U20 scoring in that league. And that hype only got him voted to 13th in last year's poll, wasn't even considered in the top10, so it wasn't like it was over the top IMO. With the additions and a poor showing this season, he should see a drop. I think that ranking is absolutely fair. Maybe he should have stayed in the Allsvenskan another year.

---

For this poll, it has to be Hutton. Leading defenseman in scoring in points and goals, in the toughest conference (Hockey East). The only D man in the top20 scoring in the league, tracking even better than many players taken ahead of him (like 1st rounder Michael Matheson who is also on a much better team). 2nd in team scoring, voted on to Hockey East's first all star team. Has been a plus player his 2 years in college and the team was absolutely putrid last season. Coach uses him in all situations on the top pair, says he played him against the other team's top players. Hutton switched from forward to defense when he was 16, that's a late change. He's on a steep trajectory and still has room for improvement.

Its been more than a handful of years that we've had a player this dominant in the NCAA and has shown the progression Hutton has. He is under-valued here, IMO.

 

[timw33]

That's how I had those 4 ranked when I put together a list just after the draft (although I had Zalewski in between Fox and Cassels) but then I watch Fox shoot the puck, note how he's a couple years closer to the NHL .... and it's difficult for me to rate him lower.

Until I see Hutton play credible defense against pros, I have a hard time getting too excited about him. Very disappointed he didn't sign this summer.

Extremely disappointed he didn't sign. Now next summer he can literally just wait 3 months and choose whatever team he wants—it's cutting it way too close and the NCAA loophole is still an issue.

I barely have a read on Zalewski (didn't watch many late season games) so I can't comment on him.

 

[me2]

Next 3 names should be Demko/Hutton/Fox but I'm torn on what the order should be.

Common sense says the #36 overall pick should be here, hype and upside/development says it should be Hutton .... but my gut says Fox is the best prospect and would be the one I would be most troubled to trade away right now.

Going Hutton then Demko then Fox/Cassels myself

Something about an abject lack of defensive competition makes Hutton seem shinier.

 

[Wilch]

Hutton, Demko, Fox.

 

[denkiteki]

These rankings are all over the place because the majority of people are voting based on NHL readiness and a good chunk of people are voting based on how valuable a prospect is. Next time it should be made clear how we are evaluating our prospects... I believe we should be voting based on asset value.

Based on asset value:

1) Horvat
2) Virtanen
3) Shinkaruk
4) McCaan
5) Demko
6) Jensen
7) Vey
8) Corrado
9) Gaunce
10) Cassels

Based on NHL Readiness:
1) Vey
2) Corrado
3) Jensen
4) Horvat
5) Zalewski
6) Lain
7) Shinkaruk
8) Gaunce
9) Archibald
10) Virtanen

You know i actually agree that there should be 2 or even 3 different polls because everyone values different thing differently. One poll just makes everything too general. Some value the players potential range more than their top end potential (i.e. Hunter probably has better high end potential than Horvat but Horvat would bottom out much better than HS).

 

[701]

It's a different sort of world when a gritty sharpshooter like Fox doesn't make the goal-starved Canucks' top 10 or even top 12 prospects

 

[timw33]

It's a different sort of world when a gritty sharpshooter like Fox doesn't make the goal-starved Canucks' top 10 or even top 12 prospects

It's actually a great sign for the depth that we're building in our prospect pool.

An overage goal machine on a strong junior team isn't in our top 5. That's a very good sign IMO.

 

[me2]

It's a different sort of world when a gritty sharpshooter like Fox doesn't make the goal-starved Canucks' top 10 or even top 12 prospects

An awesome one. wooo depth.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

Zalewski had a rookie season scoring at 0.5 PPG, why no love?

 

[denkiteki]

Extremely disappointed he didn't sign. Now next summer he can literally just wait 3 months and choose whatever team he wants—it's cutting it way too close and the NCAA loophole is still an issue.

I barely have a read on Zalewski (didn't watch many late season games) so I can't comment on him.

Its the risk with drafting NCAA players, just like there's a risk with RUS players (more to do with money than school since KHL can offer more than your typical ELC). Considering he was a 5th round pick, its not a huge risk and he has developed well. We could actually sign him early enough that it knocks off 1 year of ELC (that's assuming he's good enough to play 10+ NHL games, which isn't likely but given our injury history, who knows how our roster will look like late in the season), which could be an incentive for him to sign here instead of elsewhere.

 

[Verviticus]

Extremely disappointed he didn't sign. Now next summer he can literally just wait 3 months and choose whatever team he wants—it's cutting it way too close and the NCAA loophole is still an issue.

1 year, 3 months.

Until I see Hutton play credible defense against pros, I have a hard time getting too excited about him.

i dont even understand where this comes from, tbh. i hear it a lot from people that dont watch him but ive yet to really engage with a primary source i trust that has legit concerns about his defence. when you're attacking with the frequency and effectiveness that he does, its not even really a concern

 

[Hammer79]

Lol @ anyone who says this isn't the best group of prospects we've ever had.

We might have several potential NHL regulars in our system, but where are the potential 1st liners, 1st pairing D, Above Average #1 G? Virtanen and maybe Demko. Is Horvat a first liner? Skinkaruk? I see 2nd line potential here, not 1st. This system just doesn't have the blue chippers we had like when we were developing the Sedins for example.

 

[Wisp]

Literally no one cares

Couple folkes paused to discuss it with me, chief.

 

[ChilliBilly]

its a toss up, but a few out of left field where no one has an idea.

Obviously Hutton Fox cassels are possible as are Demko and Eriksson.

But Trymakin and Kenins could be argued as #1 & 2. the big russian looks like he has the toolbox to be our best D man if the stars align and Kenins might be the most NHL ready prospect.

But agreed, the mods should state the basis for evaluating at the start of these bloody polls,

1 - most NHL ready
2 - most value in a trade
3 - in what order we would draft them today

let alone a number of other opinions.

I think #3 above is the best criteria but whatever when setting up these polls it would be nice if the basis was stated so we didn"t have 4 pages of arguing over it included.

 

[Ernie]

I don't rate Cassels nearly as highly as you do. Poor skater with a poor shot. I'd have him down around 13-15.

The two guys I'll be very interested to see where they're rated are Kenins and Zalewski. Zalewski looked really, really good in his brief audition last year and I'll probably have him at #12 on the list. Kenins likewise looked impressive against NHL players at the Olympics. But both are afterthoughts in the Utica thread and I'm guessing both will be afterthoughts here, even though I wouldn't be surprised to see either or both get a big chunk of NHL icetime next season.

I thought the Cassels pick was good at the time and all he's done since is leapfrog a bunch of players who were drafted before him. He's a long way from a blue chipper, obviously, but he should be in the top 10.

 

[vancityluongo]

I don't rate Cassels nearly as highly as you do. Poor skater with a poor shot. I'd have him down around 13-15.

The two guys I'll be very interested to see where they're rated are Kenins and Zalewski. Zalewski looked really, really good in his brief audition last year and I'll probably have him at #12 on the list. Kenins likewise looked impressive against NHL players at the Olympics. But both are afterthoughts in the Utica thread and I'm guessing both will be afterthoughts here, even though I wouldn't be surprised to see either or both get a big chunk of NHL icetime next season.

The nature of these polls is that an undersized player like Subban that might not even sniff the NHL will beat out a guy like Kenins who looks like a sure bet to at least play on a fourth line sometime in the next couple years, simply because Subban has much higher upside. So I'd guess both those guys get ranked somewhere between 13-18.

Darren Archibald is a perfect example of that too IMO. He probably won't go any higher than 15th, but could possibly end up playing more NHL games than 5-6 of the players ranked higher than him, and has already played a handful.

 

[Intangibos]

Hutton is likely the best here. That being said, reading these posts, I can't believe you people are acting like Eriksson is a nothing prospect. He's played very well in the AHL and I have high hopes for him moving forward.

He certainly isn't a top prospect, but I'd have him higher than someone like Subban who has yet to play in the AHL obviously and was a 5th round pick. Subban has tons of potential but is hardly a sure thing.