Prospect Info: Who is Canucks #4 prospect?

[Lundface*]

Vey: 18 NHL games
Jensen: 19 NHL games

If it were up to me, they'd be off the list as they look to already be "players". But that isn't how this works, I guess. Hell, I'd even keep Corrado off. Basically anyone who is plausible to be playing on the big squad this year should be off, IMO.

Vey 191 AHL games
Jensen 74 AHL games
For comparison- Schroeder 190 AHL games 56 NHL games.

Vey played 3 full seasons in the AHL before getting to the NHL. He's in the same boat as Schroeder

Jensen played one season in the AHL, getting called up to the NHL due to injury. Jensen is not going to start in the NHL next year, unless of course he blows everyone away. There was tons of pressure on Jensen because for a time he was the only promising piece in the pool ( zero picks in 2010, Gaunce was still in junior) so perhaps people think he's been stewing in the minors but hes's still got two years of development on Vey.

 

[luongo321]

I was just looking at HF's probability of success rating for prospects. What a joke.
They give almost everyone a C or lower.

 

[cc]

Vey: 18 NHL games
Jensen: 19 NHL games

If it were up to me, they'd be off the list as they look to already be "players". But that isn't how this works, I guess. Hell, I'd even keep Corrado off. Basically anyone who is plausible to be playing on the big squad this year should be off, IMO.

my reason for keeping Vey off the list has to do with him not being able to be sent down to the farm club without passing through waivers.
dalpe was in the same boat when the Canucks first acquired him

 

[Hammer79]

I'm keeping Vey off for now because his trade value is much lower than the picks we actually used at the draft. There's no way that Vey should be ahead of McCann or Demko for that matter. Just look at Vey as a late, over-age 2nd round pick.

 

[deckercky]

Just look at Vey as a late, over-age 2nd round pick.

That's a stupid way to look at him, since he has a pedigree and has consistently shown progression at every level. Look at him as a 4th round pick that's developed well, is scoring at PPG in the minors, and is ready to break into the NHL.

 

[Addison Rae]

Going with Jensen here.

 

[Hammer79]

That's a stupid way to look at him, since he has a pedigree and has consistently shown progression at every level. Look at him as a 4th round pick that's developed well, is scoring at PPG in the minors, and is ready to break into the NHL.

Is trade value not a factor in the prospect rankings? Everyone seems to have their own formulas here. LA couldn't flip Vey for an early enough pick to take McCann or Demko. Pretty clear where he is when it comes to that. Of course being a RFA comes into play.

 

[Shareefruck]

I must be the only one here who doesn't feel that a guy being further along in their development at a later age (like Jensen or Vey) makes them a better prospect.

The evaluation should be based on how good you think they'll be based on how they're currently tracking. Trade value shouldn't be a factor either, IMO.

Vey's tracking well, but I don't think he's going to be nearly as good as Gaunce at the NHL level, personally.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Voted Mccann but I see very little to choose between McCann Jensen Vey Gaunce Hutton Fox and kenins at this point.

I think all of these players have decent potential.

And Moderator - I suggest that posting at the start of these threads the criteria intended. Most seem to think the best criteria for choosing is the order you would draft them in at this time, over which is the most NHL ready.

 

[Shareefruck]

lol @ anybody voting jensen over corrado

this is a very shortsighted view considering the positions they play

What is your far-sighted view of it, out of curiosity? I don't think Corrado has much more long-term upside than Jensen does, personally. Neither have huge upside, but if you leaned on me, I would probably pick Jensen.

I don't think either of these guys are close to our #4 prospect though. I'm way more optimistic about where Gaunce, McCann, and Hutton are headed, personally.

 

[m9]

Is trade value not a factor in the prospect rankings? Everyone seems to have their own formulas here. LA couldn't flip Vey for an early enough pick to take McCann or Demko. Pretty clear where he is when it comes to that. Of course being a RFA comes into play.

Trade value, asset value. Call it what you will. If the draft was tomorrow and these guys were all on the table, who would you pick? That's all it should be.

 

[MikeK]

This is supposed to be best prospect, not who is the closest NHL ready player.

I voted McCann. Given the same development time he will be better than anyone on this list.

 

[deckercky]

I must be the only one here who doesn't feel that a guy being further along in their development at a later age (like Jensen or Vey) makes them a better prospect.

Further along and ready to make the NHL in some capacity means that the player has developed well and the risk factor is diminished. Vey and Jensen both still have solid top 6 upside, so it's not like we're talking about someone like Lain. At this point, I'd say both of them are much more likely to be a regular top 6 player than McCann just because of how far along in their development they are.

 

[hoodrychcanuck]

Voted Mccann but I see very little to choose between McCann Jensen Vey Gaunce Hutton Fox and kenins at this point.

I think all of these players have decent potential.

And Moderator - I suggest that posting at the start of these threads the criteria intended. Most seem to think the best criteria for choosing is the order you would draft them in at this time, over which is the most NHL ready.

Clarification on the criteria would go a long way. For myself, it has to be Jensen. He has shown the most at the NHL level, and is closer to stepping in than Mccann, Demko, etc. However, there isn't too much separating Jensen from Vey, in my humble opinion.

 

[Shareefruck]

Further along and ready to make the NHL in some capacity means that the player has developed well and the risk factor is diminished. Vey and Jensen both still have solid top 6 upside, so it's not like we're talking about someone like Lain. At this point, I'd say both of them are much more likely to be a regular top 6 player than McCann just because of how far along in their development they are.

Here's how I see it. Jensen is about exactly where we hoped he'd be when he was drafted (if not a little behind). You're right, the risk is diminished, but if you asked me who I would draft, a guy like McCann, or Jensen with the guarantee that he'll be at least good enough to make the NHL in 4 years, I would still pick McCann. Jensen's upside hasn't really improved since we drafted him.

I think the safety of having a player further along in their development is fine, but it shouldn't be enough to bump them up a tier as far as prospects go, IMO.

 

[Alexistheman]

These threads are always skewed by people that think "whats shiny and new must be better". In no world should McCaan get any votes over Jensen-Gaunce-Corrado.

 

[m9]

These threads are always skewed by people that think "whats shiny and new must be better". In no world should McCaan get any votes over Jensen-Gaunce-Corrado.

Could you have traded any of those guys for a first round pick in this year's draft?

 

[Shareefruck]

These threads are always skewed by people that think "whats shiny and new must be better". In no world should McCaan get any votes over Jensen-Gaunce-Corrado.

Give me a break. McCann's visibly one of our most skilled prospects. I think I'd take Gaunce over him upon further review, but Jensen/Corrado never had that kind of upside even when THEY were the shiny new toys. The only thing they have over him is that they're further along in their development.

 

[Alexistheman]

Could you have traded any of those guys for a first round pick in this year's draft?

Could you trade Virtanen for within 5 picks of the 6th overall next year? Not a chance. I liken a draft pick much like buying a car, the second you use that pick the player is no longer worth that pick mainly because if someone is willing to split with a prospect its likely that its that way because the team feels that prospect is expendable.

 

[Shareefruck]

Could you trade Virtanen for within 5 picks of the 6th overall next year? Not a chance. I liken a draft pick much like buying a car, the second you use that pick the player is no longer worth that pick mainly because if someone is willing to split with a prospect its likely that its that way because the team feels that prospect is expendable.

Pretty questionable analogy as next year is a far stronger draft with players better than Virtanen available at #6.

Heck, Virtanen probably wasn't even the #6 best player in this year's draft.

 

[m9]

Our players that just got drafted are the most tangible assets because we saw how they were ranked recently and where they went in the draft. How far a player has progressed is a bit more arbitrary. I do think Jensen, Gaunce and Corrado are our next 3 but I also don't think they could have been traded for a top 24 pick in this last draft, hence why I would rank them behind McCann.

I really don't get people who have Vey ahead of McCann. Vey was just acquired for a late 2nd, which is a good indication of his current value. People would have thrown tables if we traded our #24 pick for Vey.

 

[m9]

Could you trade Virtanen for within 5 picks of the 6th overall next year? Not a chance. I liken a draft pick much like buying a car, the second you use that pick the player is no longer worth that pick mainly because if someone is willing to split with a prospect its likely that its that way because the team feels that prospect is expendable.

I dont see what any of that has to do with the question I asked. Could you get a first rounder for one of those guys?

I think all would be worth late 1st, early 2nd. So easily within the grasp of McCann's value, provided you think he was worth his draft position.

 

[Shareefruck]

Our players that just got drafted are the most tangible assets because we saw how they were ranked recently and where they went in the draft. How far a player has progressed is a bit more arbitrary. I do think Jensen, Gaunce and Corrado are our next 3 but I also don't think they could have been traded for a top 24 pick in this last draft, hence why I would rank them behind McCann.

I really don't get people who have Vey ahead of McCann. Vey was just acquired for a late 2nd, which is a good indication of his current value. People would have thrown tables if we traded our #24 pick for Vey.

Yep.

 

[m9]

Just to add, I have no problem with Jensen, Corrado, or Gaunce ahead of McCann. I have McCann ahead of Jensen slightly, but it's close enough that depending on tastes any of those guys makes sense. But to say 'in no world' should McCann be ahead of those guys is pretty unreasonable.

 

[Alexistheman]

I dont see what any of that has to do with the question I asked. Could you get a first rounder for one of those guys?

I think all would be worth late 1st, early 2nd. So easily within the grasp of McCann's value, provided you think he was worth his draft position.

It's impossible to say. In this past draft, Gaunce and Jensen no problem - Corrado maybe. Mccann was clearly worth a very late 24-30 in a weak draft. Next years draft he might be a late second. Gaunce was taken in the first round in a better draft, thus he is a better prospect. Ditto for Jensen. Using the same theory.

This all is completely opinion though, giving player value to his particular draft is tangible. But when you put stock into a players skill based on that you will run into problems as each draft year has different amount of talent.

Finally this is why ranking prospects is very difficult. In my eyes, it is the best player currently not who has the highest upside.

Edit:To your last post. It has to do with definition of "Best Prospect" and in that, lays our difference in opinion, I suppose.