Prospect Info: Who is Canucks #3 prospect?

JA

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My primary concern is still with Shinkaruk's positioning and strength. He struggled with both of those in training camp last year. I would consider him the next-best prospect to choose from in this poll, but he will need to become stronger on his skates to impress me. I liked what he had to offer last year, but he needs to take it a step further this year. He plays a courageous, fearless style but last year lacked the strength to make things happen with the puck.

I distinctly remember him trying to cut to the net on this play and being forced completely to the outside by Anton Belov:

Hunter+Shinkaruk+Vancouver+Canucks+v+Edmonton+3fE3NP-05kEx.jpg


Along the boards, he had difficulty battling for the puck:

Hunter+Shinkaruk+Vancouver+Canucks+v+Edmonton+-X4IoCf6NHix.jpg


I'm optimistic about Hunter. There are some things he needs to definitely work on, but strength should be, in my opinion, the primary focus.
 
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Virtanen2Horvat

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My primary concern is still with Shinkaruk's positioning and strength. He struggled with both of those in training camp last year. I would consider him the next-best prospect to choose from in this poll, but he will need to become stronger on his skates to impress me. I liked what he had to offer last year, but he needs to take it a step further this year. He plays a courageous, fearless style but last year lacked the strength to make things happen with the puck.

I am sure his strengthening will get worked on with the AHL and his time in the NHL.
 

JA

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I am sure his strengthening will get worked on with the AHL and his time in the NHL.

I am confident that will be the case. I like his approach to the game; I just don't think he's physically able to play that style yet at the NHL level.
 

Orca Smash

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I am a big shinkaruk fan I think he has great offensive upside.

After that it gets muddy, i would go mccann (tons of potential if he can put it all together), gaunce, jensen, demko,corrado/hutton.
 

RandV

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Whens the last time the canucks had a prospect hit a ppg in over 40+ AHL games?

When's the last time any notable Canuck AHL prospect has had any decent linemates? Hard to say exactly how much but this is a factor, we'll see how our current group of kids do where we have a bunch of quality CHLers hitting the AHL at the same time.
 

JA

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Ill keep saying Shinkaruk, he shoulda been 1 in my books.

I personally feel Virtanen should be ahead of Shinkaruk. I think Horvat should have been rated third-best instead. The offensive potential of both Jake and Hunter outweigh the overall package, in my opinion, that Bo seems to offer.

Here's a nice photograph of Hunter, courtesy of The Vancouver Sun.

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CanucksSayEh

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I personally feel Virtanen should be ahead of Shinkaruk. I think Horvat should have been rated third-best instead. The offensive potential of both Jake and Hunter outweigh the overall package, in my opinion, that Bo seems to offer.

I don't really follow minors, so maybe. I just think Shink looked really good in last years camp. Didn't seem small to me, and dem filthy mitts, greasy shot.....

Might change my stance after this pre-season when I get to see em all ( except Virt??? shoulder????) Agree on Bo being 3rd though.

PS, think Gaunce is really underrated here, think he will be legit.
 

JA

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I don't really follow minors, so maybe. I just think Shink looked really good in last years camp. Didn't seem small to me, and dem filthy mitts, greasy shot.....

Might change my stance after this pre-season when I get to see em all ( except Virt??? shoulder????) Agree on Bo being 3rd though.

PS, think Gaunce is really underrated here, think he will be legit.

Virtanen is out with a shoulder injury currently. I don't expect him to challenge for a roster position with the Canucks until the 2015-16 season. That may be good for him, though, as he is one of the youngest players in this year's draft class, and thus can afford to spend an extra year in the WHL without losing much time.

I think Virtanen's size, physicality, skill set, and incredible speed give him the advantage over Shinkaruk.

I documented some of Hunter's shortcomings last preseason -- he has a lot of things to work on, including his strength, positioning and timing. These things may have improved over the past year. Here's my analysis of his game a year ago:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=71761767&postcount=498
Hunter's greatest weakness thus far has been his lack of strength. He can not successfully battle for pucks as of yet; he is not physically strong enough to battle for pucks against the boards, and he has difficulty fighting off pressure from the opposition when he has the puck. He also seems lost much of the time as his positioning is not adequate in all three zones; he fails to reach many loose pucks before the opposition can in the offensive zone, and in the defensive zone is far too low. His timing is much slower than it should be, both when he decides to accelerate and when he chooses to release his wristshot. Both of his goals were the result of entries into the offensive zone with his teammates backing up the opposition; his shot, as we have seen, requires a slight delay before its release. The shot itself is tremendous, but he keeps the puck set on his stick for at least a moment before releasing it -- at times, his shots have been blocked as a result. He telegraphs it before releasing it. Hopefully he works on shooting the puck more quickly: the shot is quick and accurate, but the release is slow. It would be great for him to also develop a slap shot so that he may work along the right side more effectively on the powerplay in the future.

I've kept track of some of the things he needs to work on. These posts are in chronological order, dated between September 23, 2013 and September 27, 2013:

09-23-2013, 11:40 PM
There are a lot of things Hunter appears able to improve on:

1. His positioning. Quite often he doesn't appear open in the neutral zone and thus when he receives passes he can only ever dump the puck in from the left side. The only time anything ever happens on the rush with him is when the opponent commits a turnover at the blue line, generating an odd-man rush.

In the offensive zone, he drifts along the boards sometimes and misses the puck. He looks ineffective deep in the offensive zone. His line can never generate any sustained pressure and though he tries to fight for pucks, he doesn't seem strong enough yet to fight off the opposition and make things happen offensively. He doesn't have much of a presence on the forecheck along the boards. He works hard and crashes the slot and front of the net well, but he can't control the puck along the boards against the opposition.

In the defensive zone, he's far too low on his side, sometimes being as low as the left faceoff dot. He leaves the opposing defenseman open much of the time, providing him time and space to create offense. One positive is that he sometimes places himself in good position to block shots, but he never challenges the opposing defender. When the puck is deep along the boards on his side of the defensive zone, he isn't at the boards to help out. In general, he doesn't move his feet much in the defensive zone. His defensive positioning requires improvement.

2. His shot/speed of his release. I've talked to a few people regarding his shot, and it seems he doesn't have much of a slap shot -- or if he does, the wind up is quite lengthy. He delays his wrist shot, which is effective at junior-level hockey but won't work well in the NHL where a quick release is required. In a few of the games thus far, he has received the puck in a good scoring position and has opted not to shoot, looking for the shot but waiting too long; a few of his shots have been blocked, at other times he has decided not to shoot as the goalie has adjusted to cut off his angle. He has received the puck at the right side of the offensive zone from his teammates and has had opportunities to one-time pucks but elects not to. He has a nice wrist shot, but the timing of it is delayed. His slap shot needs work.

3. His skating. He seems quicker when he has the puck, and does not seem to move his feet well without it except for in a few instances. At times he has shown flashes of great speed, but most of the time he skates at a slower pace and does not use that speed to his advantage on the forecheck. He has the speed, but doesn't seem comfortable using it in certain situations. He seems feisty and wants to be physical, and hustling in appropriate situations would help him make a better impact in general. He does not seem to know when to skate at certain speeds.

4. His strength. This will occur naturally as his body matures but will help him immensely in the future. He may be able to help develop his strength through proper training; that's obvious. If he becomes more difficult to contain, he'll become a greater threat offensively. He has tried making moves around the opposition with his speed and hands, but has thus far been pushed off the puck. Against Edmonton on Saturday night, he tried one such deke to the outside on the rush. He isn't strong enough to play the way he wants to just yet. He can't play an aggressive offensive game without strength, so we can look forward to this improving over the next few seasons.

He's fairly raw. He's a very good prospect and I'm quite optimistic about him as a potential top-six NHL forward in the future, but like so many others he requires more "seasoning," in my opinion. If he works on several aspects of his game in the CHL and potentially in the AHL when he's eligible, he'll be in better position to be successful in the future.

09-24-2013, 10:51 PM
Hunter again looked to be outmatched much of the time tonight, though to be fair the Canucks as a whole did not exactly play their strongest game. He had a lot of trouble retrieving pucks along the boards in all three zones of the ice. At times he played on the second line, at times on the third line. Without the puck, Hunter suddenly seems that much slower. His positioning makes it difficult for him to reach pucks in time, and he is generally knocked off the puck when he has it. He needs to learn where to be and how to use his speed effectively with and without the puck.

Most of the issues addressed in my last post appeared again tonight. He doesn't seem ready to play in the NHL yet. I don't think he would be very effective if he were to play for the Canucks this season. He hardly touched the puck despite having 14:59 of TOI tonight. He can start the year with the team, but I don't think he should remain with the Canucks this year beyond a handful of games.

09-25-2013, 01:30 AM
These photos by Jeff Vinnick and Derek Leung illustrate some of the problems with Hunter's strength right now:

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13P6cr.AuSt.55.jpeg


Forcing him to continue this for another several weeks would only hinder his development, in my opinion. He isn't physically mature enough yet to fight off the opposition along the boards and retrieve pucks successfully. We all certainly want him to succeed, but pushing him into the NHL early is not going to help him.

Hunter has two shots on goal combined in the last four preseason games (58 minutes 9 seconds total ice time). He had three shots in his first preseason game against San Jose and had no shots tonight. One of his shots in the first Edmonton game went wide (the two-on-one chance), but even if one counts that as a shot, he has only taken three in nearly an hour of ice time since scoring his goal last week.

09-26-2013, 12:29 AM
Those pictures are pretty misleading as only two involve real hits where he has been knocked down. He's given about as good as he's taken in the pre-season and knocked other players down. Really impressed with his compete level. And to top it off he's shown some real strong offensive skills while playing moslty with rookies.
Having said that, I think the best course is for him to get a few NHL games and then go back and have another great year. Really impressed with his first camp! Kids going to be a real good one.

He can hit, there's no question about that. Most of those falls occurred during puck battles along the boards, though. He isn't falling from being hit as much as he is from being pushed and shoved when trying to gain possession of the puck. He isn't strong enough yet to fight off pressure from the opposition, and he looks lost a lot of the time when the Canucks try to move the puck around in the offensive zone. He surely wants to compete. He just isn't physically able to yet and hasn't yet developed the hockey sense and presence of mind to make use of his skills and position himself effectively. He can develop those qualities; the kid's still only 18 years old as of today.

I was listening to TEAM 1040 this morning, and Canucks commentator Dave Tomlinson echoed most of these observations. I think most of us would agree Hunter isn't ready to step in to the NHL just yet.

09-27-2013, 01:10 AM
Nice goal today. This might have been his best game since his game against Edmonton last Saturday. It means a lot that he performed well against a veteran roster.



I saw him live today at Rogers Arena, which gave me an opportunity to watch what he was doing away from the puck and outside of what the camera would have captured. It was great to see him score in the preseason finale against the Rangers' veteran lineup. He still has trouble with his positioning and with his strength along the boards, and he doesn't hustle at the appropriate times. There are times when his speed is noticeable; at such times he appears to accelerate quicker than most of the other players on the ice. Unfortunately, this only ever happens when he's trying to spring free for an offensive opportunity or when he thinks the puck will land on his stick. Unfortunately, once he is impeded on the rush he loses all of his momentum since he can not fight off the check. Defensively, he still gets in trouble for being too deep in the defensive zone. He blocked another shot today, which was a positive.

After he scored his goal tonight, his play became much more noticeable for an extended period of time. Once his teammates began to make passes to him in the neutral zone, he looked a lot more energized than he did at any other point in the past week. He squandered two opportunities to shoot the puck in the slot, though one can argue he was trying not to be selfish with the puck; he might also have been nervous. He needs to learn when to pass and when to shoot. He made a few good plays in the offensive zone.

On one particular play, it was clear there was an issue with his positioning on the breakout. Yannick Weber was behind the Canucks' net looking for a pass to make; Hunter was circling around the right side of the defensive zone with two Rangers players covering that side. He needed to be on the left side to support the breakout but did not make himself available. That's part of the problem with his positioning; hopefully he'll figure it out with experience.

I've noticed he works a lot better on the right side than he does on the left. The coaching staff may wish to experiment with him as a right winger instead. He wouldn't have to turn as much as he does to receive pucks off the rush; I think that hinders his ability to generate speed on the rush. He gallops when he gains possession of the puck on the right side. On the left side, he usually turns toward the pass, and then flips the puck in to the offensive zone because the opposing defenseman has stood him up at the blue line by the time he turns back to face forward. He effectively traps himself most of the time whenever he tries to lead the rush from the left side.

I think he deserves a few games with the team this year. If the coaching staff places him in the right position to succeed, then he might be able to adjust on the fly over the course of the season. If he really works on his shot, positioning, and hockey sense, he could potentially learn and improve with the big club. The much safer route would be for him to return to the WHL for another season and work on those things at a solid pace. I think his nine-game preview will provide the team with a good idea of whether or not he'll be able to improve this season with the Canucks or if the NHL will only hinder his current development. He looked better today than he did at any point since last Saturday. If he can play the next nine games like he did today and in his first two preseason games, he might very well be able to learn with the Canucks this year. If he plays like he did in the last few games, I don't think there's any doubt he'll need to return to Medicine Hat to have the right opportunities to learn with and without the puck. The problems were all still there today, but he showed he could generate chances offensively too.

It's a lot easier to make the transition when one has a sense of control, even when one isn't physically strong. If he's going to contribute nothing while being pushed around, that's a different story. The deciding factor as to whether he should stay is whether he can create opportunities offensively every game. The next handful of games will make it clear what the team should do with him this season. The fact that it's ambiguous now is a positive sign. If he has learned all he can learn in the WHL and is creating opportunities in a Canucks sweater, then taking the next step in the NHL would seem fair to develop his offensive talents. If he can't do a whole lot yet in the NHL, it would be best to send him back down. Physically, he isn't ready. His positioning and other various aspects of his game need major improvement. The timing of his shot and decision-making need to be worked on. He shows glimpses of enough offensive skill to remain in the NHL, though. One would think he could develop his decision-making skills at a faster rate in the NHL than in the WHL, where he might not be challenged to make NHL-caliber split-second decisions.


Unfortunately, he didn't make the opening night roster. I would have liked to see him gain some experience from the big club before returning to Medicine Hat for another season. Hopefully he can become stronger and improve in several regards so that he may challenge for a roster position next year. He would not have remained past four or five games this year simply because he doesn't think or react quickly enough to be an NHL player yet nor is he strong enough to retrieve pucks or fight off checks. Another year in the WHL will certainly help his progression. That said, he had a very good camp as an eighteen-year-old.


Here's another instance of him trying to drive in from the outside and struggling to out-muscle a defender:

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7676018.jpg
 
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CanucksSayEh

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Great info, still think Shink is the man. Virt highlights are growing on me though. That backhand is ridonkulous.
 

Trelane

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What is the ranking criteria here? Is it the upside if/when they make it, or is it who will be a regular sooner?

Also would prefer to see forwards and D ranked separately. The two groups are never competing with each other and opportunities for advancement hinge on openings at those positions. E.g., Corrado is at present the #1 D prospect but frack if I know where to put him relative to the forwards. If ranking by the "sooner regular" creteria he must be ahead of Virtanen whose likelihood to see NHL action this year is about 1%.
 

ChilliBilly

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What is the ranking criteria here? Is it the upside if/when they make it, or is it who will be a regular sooner?

Also would prefer to see forwards and D ranked separately. The two groups are never competing with each other and opportunities for advancement hinge on openings at those positions. E.g., Corrado is at present the #1 D prospect but frack if I know where to put him relative to the forwards. If ranking by the "sooner regular" creteria he must be ahead of Virtanen whose likelihood to see NHL action this year is about 1%.

the general consensus is that if you were drafting these players today, what order would you choose them.
 

cc

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I don't view vey as a prospect so I won't be voting for him on any of the polls.
My choice again is Jensen
 

vanuck

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Just feel he had his shot last year and didn't take it. Too many incoming prospects now, pretty hard to see him as more than solid depth for the farm team imo.

He may be down the list but for all intents and purposes he's still one using the HF definition. I still consider him a better prospect than Lain at least... Though yeah, he has to take a big step this year especially when he's on the older side to boot.
 

xtra

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Now this is all based off my expertise in video watching, and reading reports online. As well as some half assed game watching while drunk at last years youngstars tourney (which i will be at this year too) but this is my list:

1: Bo Hovrat - cause Bo knows

2: Hunter Shinkaruk - his offensive package is too much to pass up on and i see some superstar potential here

3: Jared McCann - I know people are suprised to see him about Jake but from what i have seen of him he is serverly underrated and has the tools to be dominant: IQ, vision, shot, speed and decent size. i even considered moving him above Hunter, His biggest drawback must be the consistency but if he puts it all together he is a special player

4: Jake Virtannen: He's talented and produced better than McCann but maybe i haven't seen enough of him but from what i have seen he seems to have one move which is speed down the wing and cut in using his size which will work great in junior, im just not sure how it will translate vs. someone like chara

5: Brendan Gaunce: The Fact that we have him here says alot of our prospects. he is talented just not in a flashy way that gets you to the top of the prospects poll. This kid is going to have a long and successful NHL career where he could play as a #2 center on a weaker team but be an elite #3 center on good teams

6: Niklas Jenssen: Its nothing agsaint him as i think he will be a good NHL player i just feel that the ones above him have something that could make their value to an NHL team more than what his will be. Still a good player with a shot to be a 25-30 goal scorer

7: Cole Cassels: I loved everything i have seen of him and from last years youngstars he was the best player out there with a sublime skill set

8:Thacther Demko: love his positioning and his side to side movement

9:Ben Hutton: haven't seen him play, just completely based on others reports

10: Dane Fox: I know he was older than everyone but at somepoint puttin up 60+ goals is impressive and could probably be higher on this list and wouldn't get an arguement from me.

Ok going through that list we have some damn good prospects. I am shocked at how good the prospects are. Now we just wait for hockeys future to put us in the bottom 15 based on their excellent knowledge of all things Canucks.

But i feel that you could argue that its a top 10 prospect pool in the league with an outside shot at top 5.
 

Szechwan

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Sep 13, 2006
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Are you guys seriously using still as evidence of flaws in a player's game? That last set makes it look like he beat the guy for christ's sake.


On a related note, I feel Ovechkin's game would be taken to the next level if he could just stay on his feet for once. I mean look at him here: A prime scoring opportunity with an empty net and he gets pushed on to his back?? You simply have to fight through it when you get that kind of opportunity.
PHO-09Sep27-179676.jpg


There's point to be made about Shink's core strength and ability to stay on the puck, but I'm not sure that's the way to go about it.
 
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alternate

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He may be down the list but for all intents and purposes he's still one using the HF definition. I still consider him a better prospect than Lain at least... Though yeah, he has to take a big step this year especially when he's on the older side to boot.

Fair enough on the "hf definition" which does govern who is eligible. So technically, he is still a prospect. And while this debate is about 15 polls too early, I feel Lain is the better prospect of the two.

He's bigger, better mobility and plays a more important position. He also showed better in the bigs last year imo and has been an elite face off guy at lower levels. Wouldnt be surprised at all to see Lain get some games this year, but I will be shocked if Archibald does.

As fpr the poster that said Vey isnt a prospect, how so? He's just as much a prospect as Jensen, even if Vey is waiver eligible. Thats the only reason I can think of why he'd be disqualified from these pollls, but precedent doesnt support that.
 

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