Who gets drafted first in the 2006 redraft?

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Backstrom has been underrated and underappreciated his whole career. Sad.

Backstrom is and was better than Toews. If he was Canadian it wouldn't even be a debate.

Backstrom won that Cup too btw. Was no slouch defensively either. Lead the league in assists once. Toews has never been #1 anywhere.

Just way way better offensively than Toews.

Toews never played consistently:
with a player as dynamic as Ovechkin
and on a team with a decent PP save for a few random seasons.
Toews has been a better goal scorer than:
Bergeron
Kopitar
Backstrom
and pretty much all of the two way centers.

In my mind, Toews is more dynamic offensively than Backstrom because he was counted on to carry a line and is the better goal scorer of the two, where Backstrom played Robin to Ovechkin's Batman for the majority of his career. Toews and Kane rarely played on the same line throughout their careers. It was basically a nuclear option. While Toews did play with Hossa, Blackhawks Hossa was not the same guy offensively that he was earlier in his career. Hossa put up one 70+ point season with the Blackhawks (2012)

As someone who has had the pleasure of watching the entirety of Toews career, he has gone from slightly overrated to massively underrated on HF. He's still the unquestioned best player in the 2006 draft.

 

[Kuznetsnow]

Wasn't referring to Cups. I'm just talking about each player in terms of being able to build around them and how they'd fair as the #1 guy on the team. So I don't think Toews' teams should be held against him because it's not like Backstrom's ever been his team's #1 guy or never had anyone to help him carry the load.

The times Backstrom's #1 guy was out he stepped up in a big way and has been one of the more consistent PPG players as there has been for the duration of his career aside from the very top guys (less than 30 points removed from ppg at almost 1000 gp). Toews had an insane peak his Conn Smythe season but aside from that he has mostly been a 65 point player and not better defensively enough than Backstrom to justify the gap (if at all)

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The times Backstrom's #1 guy was out he stepped up in a big way and has been one of the more consistent PPG players as there has been for the duration of his career aside from the very top guys (less than 30 points removed from ppg at almost 1000 gp). Toews had an insane peak his Conn Smythe season but aside from that he has mostly been a 65 point player and not better defensively enough than Backstrom to justify the gap (if at all)

What gap offensively? How do we determine what Backstrom's offensive production levels are without the Ovechkin factor since Ovi rarely misses games?

You describe Toews as mostly being a 65 point player. What's Backstrom minus Ovechkin? We don't even really know because he's largely had Ovechkin around, either as a full time linemate or a part time linemate at ES and full time on the PP.

If I had to guess, I'd say 65 points is around what Backstrom would normally be if he didn't have Ovechkin on his team. He's still an elite playmaker, but he wouldn't have a lock for 50 goals on the receiving end of those passes every season, so his assist totals would take a hit.

So their offense would be roughly the same, but with Toews having the edge defensively.

 

[David Suzuki]

Backstrom
Marchand
Toews

for me

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Surprised to see Toews (rightfully though) winning this. He almost lost a poll to Joe f***ing Niewendyk a couple years ago.

Toews or Joe Nieuwendyk

 

[Kuznetsnow]

What gap offensively? How do we determine what Backstrom's offensive production levels are without the Ovechkin factor since Ovi rarely misses games?

You describe Toews as mostly being a 65 point player. What's Backstrom minus Ovechkin? We don't even really know because he's largely had Ovechkin around, either as a full time linemate or a part time linemate at ES and full time on the PP.

If I had to guess, I'd say 65 points is around what Backstrom would normally be if he didn't have Ovechkin on his team. He's still an elite playmaker, but he wouldn't have a lock for 50 goals on the receiving end of those passes every season, so his assist totals would take a hit.

So their offense would be roughly the same, but with Toews having the edge defensively.

It's pretty clear from his play that he generates his own offense and has offensive skills a notch above Toews at least when it comes to playmaking. He's played on different lines from Ovechkin and has been more consistent production wise than Ovechkin despite dealing with more injuries, even outscoring him pointwise some years. Don't believe Toews ever outscored Kane.

 

[GRob83]

I voted for Toews becuase he has multiple Cup wins and a Conn Smythe and a Selke but i think Backstrom has been more consistent and durable. Interestingly enough if you look either player up on hockey reference and go to similarity score you see the other guy right at the top.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It's pretty clear from his play that he generates his own offense and has offensive skills a notch above Toews at least when it comes to playmaking. He's played on different lines from Ovechkin and has been more consistent production wise than Ovechkin despite dealing with more injuries, even outscoring him pointwise some years. Don't believe Toews ever outscored Kane.

To be clear, I'm not even saying there's no way Backstrom outscores Toews even without Ovechkin. I'm just saying it's difficult to know what production level that would be. And even if Backstrom was a 70 point guy, is that really enough of a gap offensively to counter Toews' better defense and goal scoring?

 

[GoldenSeal]

I have to go with Toews, but thats a hard choice between him and Backstrom.

Yeah, it’s them followed by everyone else.

 

[Kuznetsnow]

To be clear, I'm not even saying there's no way Backstrom outscores Toews even without Ovechkin. I'm just saying it's difficult to know what production level that would be. And even if Backstrom was a 70 point guy, is that really enough of a gap offensively to counter Toews' better defense and goal scoring?

If you're making the argument that Backstrom's offense was buyoyed by Ovechkin then you can easily make the argument that Toews' defense was buyoyed by having Hossa, Keith, Seabrook, Hjarmalsson, Sharp, Saad, Bolland and a whole gallery of top notch defensive players better than any other team in the league save Detroit. Hawks even gave up Panarin for Saad specifically to help elevate Toews (being comfortable subtracting from Kane since Kane can elevate anyone himself) whereas the Caps never made any roster moves to elevate Backstrom or find him perfect linemate(s). Most of Toews' supporting cast were incidentally better at offense than Backstrom's corresponding supporting cast, Ovechkin aside (as good as Semin was for stretches Hossa was always a better player and the Capitals never had a Patrick Sharp tier complementary player until getting Oshie in Backstrom's late 20s, and even Oshie is closer to Saad than prime Sharp). Yeah you had Kuznetsov come on later and Vrana come on now but that was a decade+ in career wise

Ultimately there's no way to see exactly who benefitted how much from their surroundings relative to the other guy but even from a cursory glance its obvious that Backstrom's involvement and role in his team's offense is more similar to Kane's than Toews'

 

[FourRings]

Toews for me.

 

[Stive Morgan]

I feel most would give Toews the edge but I personally lean towards Backstrom.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

If you're making the argument that Backstrom's offense was buyoyed by Ovechkin then you can easily make the argument that Toews' defense was buyoyed by having Hossa, Keith, Seabrook, Hjarmalsson, Sharp, Saad, Bolland and a whole gallery of top notch defensive players better than any other team in the league save Detroit. Hawks even gave up Panarin for Saad specifically to help elevate Toews (being comfortable subtracting from Kane since Kane can elevate anyone himself) whereas the Caps never made any roster moves to elevate Backstrom or find him perfect linemate(s). Most of Toews' supporting cast were incidentally better at offense than Backstrom's corresponding supporting cast, Ovechkin aside (as good as Semin was for stretches Hossa was always a better player and the Capitals never had a Patrick Sharp tier complementary player until getting Oshie in Backstrom's late 20s, and even Oshie is closer to Saad than prime Sharp). Yeah you had Kuznetsov come on later and Vrana come on now but that was a decade+ in career wise

Ultimately there's no way to see exactly who benefitted how much from their surroundings relative to the other guy but even from a cursory glance its obvious that Backstrom's involvement and role in his team's offense is more similar to Kane's than Toews'

Toews and Hossa were both great defensively individually, but together they were possibly the most dominant shutdown line in playoff hockey, right there with Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

Not only would they shut the opponent's top offensive line down, they'd score on them in the process. Nerds loved them, and for good reason. They were just that good together. That cannot be understated enough.

Hossa and Toews from 2010-2015 were just an absolute force. Together, they were even greater than they were indvidually.

Also Toews was usually the best offensive player on his line.

 

[CanadienShark]

Toews never played consistently:
with a player as dynamic as Ovechkin
and on a team with a decent PP save for a few random seasons.
Toews has been a better goal scorer than:
Bergeron
Kopitar
Backstrom
and pretty much all of the two way centers.

In my mind, Toews is more dynamic offensively than Backstrom because he was counted on to carry a line and is the better goal scorer of the two, where Backstrom played Robin to Ovechkin's Batman for the majority of his career. Toews and Kane rarely played on the same line throughout their careers. It was basically a nuclear option. While Toews did play with Hossa, Blackhawks Hossa was not the same guy offensively that he was earlier in his career. Hossa put up one 70+ point season with the Blackhawks (2012)

As someone who has had the pleasure of watching the entirety of Toews career, he has gone from slightly overrated to massively underrated on HF. He's still the unquestioned best player in the 2006 draft.

You don't think Kane is as dynamic? You're one of the few that can say they have a winger of that level. Ovy was better at his peak, but I see Kane as more dynamic. I realize you note they've played together at times, but didn't they not mesh great? Toews has has chances, but played better with prime Hossa, Sharp, etc.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

You don't think Kane is as dynamic? You're one of the few that can say they have a winger of that level. Ovy was better at his peak, but I see Kane as more dynamic. I realize you note they've played together at times, but didn't they not mesh great? Toews has has chances, but played better with prime Hossa, Sharp, etc.

Toews only played with Kane on rare occasions that they couldn't get anything going offensively or trailed late in the 3rd period. Kane-Toews-Hossa was the "Nuke" line.

Quennevile HATED having 19 and 88 on the same line. It was a "break glass in case of emergency" thing. If I had to guess, they only played together about 15-20% of the time 5-5. The majority of their icetime together was on the PP, which mostly sucked.

The Hawks won 3 cups because they were great 5-5, and on the PK. Their PP was usually awful. Who knows how many more points Toews and Kane would have if they had a competent PP most years.

The Hawks did have an awesome PP on occasion(2009, 2010, 2013 and 2016) , but it was either great or awful, with no middle ground.

 

[JaegerDice]

It's very close between Backstrom and Toews. I'm going to give it to Toews because, to my memory, he had a bigger impact quicker, and was the better player until 2015 or so. After that, Backstrom starts winning out due to longevity.

Toews only played with Kane on rare occasions that they couldn't get anything going offensively or trailed late in the 3rd period. Kane-Toews-Hossa was the "Nuke" line.

Quennevile HATED having 19 and 88 on the same line. It was a "break glass in case of emergency" thing. If I had to guess, they only played together about 15-20% of the time 5-5. The majority of their icetime together was on the PP, which mostly sucked.

The Hawks won 3 cups because they were great 5-5, and on the PK. Their PP was usually awful. Who knows how many more points Toews and Kane would have if they had a competent PP most years.

The Hawks did have an awesome PP on occasion(2009, 2010, 2013 and 2016) , but it was either great or awful, with no middle ground.

The PP was terrible in 2013.

The Blackhawks PP under Q has always been mediocre to bad by any of the sustainable underlying metrics (5v4 SF/60, xGF/60, etc). It only had good seasons thanks to random sh% spikes, which is why there was never any real improvement or progress year over year. They'd have a fluke hot year, and then be right back to the middle of the pack or worse when the PDO bender wore off.

 

[jetsforever]

IMO: Toews, Backstrom, Giroux, Marchand, Kessel

 

[Not My Tempo]

I’m surprised at how few mentions Giroux is getting. I feel like he was the best player on this list when everyone was at their best.

Idk how much, if any, value you put into GAR models, but 2012-13 Toews had a better GAR/G than the others.

 

[Dooble08]

For all the arguing of who played with who and how Ovechkin and Kane played into Backstrom and Toews point totals...... points Toews scored where Kane was also included on the score sheet, 280 points or 32% of Jonathan Toews total points. Points Backstrom scored when Ovechkin was also on the score sheet, 479 or 50% of Backstrom's total points.

So the correct answer is..Giroux. Who never played with a superstar caliber player like the rest of the guys on the list. (I won't argue back if you say Kessel played with worse players than Giroux. But still G>Kessel)

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Backstrom has been underrated and underappreciated his whole career. Sad.

Backstrom is and was better than Toews. If he was Canadian it wouldn't even be a debate.

Backstrom won that Cup too btw. Was no slouch defensively either. Lead the league in assists once. Toews has never been #1 anywhere.

Just way way better offensively than Toews.

Conn Smythe says "huh"?

 

[Voight]

Surprised to see Toews (rightfully though) winning this. He almost lost a poll to Joe f***ing Niewendyk a couple years ago.

Toews or Joe Nieuwendyk

HFB and Toews have a love/hate relationship.

 

[BlueBaron]

Went with Backstrom but short term Toews was surely the right pick for that club.

 

[Doc5]

Amazing how all of them except Kessel are still playing for the club that drafted them 15 years ago

 

[Mighty Makar]

Captain Serious

 

[Connor McConnor]

I think those Chicago teams were just better built so the Cup argument isn't suuuuper relevant but ofc it does play a factor since toews was the #1C on those teams. I take the longevity and higher peak but it's close.