Speculation: Who do the Jets move at the deadline?

[Grind]

The statistics show the Jets weren't all that good last year.

GF%
47.1; T-21st in NHL with Edmonton

SF%
48.6; 20th in NHL


We could have debated ad infinitum whether this year's team might sneak into the playoffs. Guess what? So can 80-90% of the league prior to each season.

One thing the overwhelming majority can agree on is that this year's incarnation wasn't going to contend for a Stanley Cup. So what's the point of trading future assets that you can build around in the years that Stanley Cup window is open for a marginal upgrade that might help you to a 7th/8th seed into the playoffs in the best case scenario?

because teams don't go from non playoff teams to stanly cup contenders in one year.


I think that trade was fine. This is supposedly a weak draft, and we just had a big one. Teams don't finish in the 7-14 spot for five years then one day magically wake up a cup contender.

I think it's very safe to assume that if we are moving seto at the deadline he'll return at minimum a 3rd/4th. I don't mind trading back from a 2nd to a 3rd to add 30+ points in a season.

 

[truck]

We didn't know we were a non-playoff team in the offseason. We had every reason to think we would be right there and adding scoring depth only helps that.

I did. Well I didn't know, but I considered it to be a likelihood.

I questioned the move for Gooch under that pretense when it was made made.

Gooch for a 2nd is good value if he resigns or if he can be traded for more, but I find a rent-a-player to be a out odd play for a team that was destined for the playoff bubble.

 

[King Woodballs]

because teams don't go from non playoff teams to stanly cup contenders in one year.


I think that trade was fine. This is supposedly a weak draft, and we just had a big one. Teams don't finish in the 7-14 spot for five years then one day magically wake up a cup contender.

I think it's very safe to assume that if we are moving seto at the deadline he'll return at minimum a 3rd/4th. I don't mind trading back from a 2nd to a 3rd to add 30+ points in a season.

Tell that to allot of people around here

 

[truck]

because teams don't go from non playoff teams to stanly cup contenders in one year.


I think that trade was fine. This is supposedly a weak draft, and we just had a big one. Teams don't finish in the 7-14 spot for five years then one day magically wake up a cup contender.

I think it's very safe to assume that if we are moving seto at the deadline he'll return at minimum a 3rd/4th. I don't mind trading back from a 2nd to a 3rd to add 30+ points in a season.

It isn't just a 2nd for a 3rd though. That kind of move temporarily makes the team better, thus pushes all of the other draft picks down.

 

[Grind]

It isn't just a 2nd for a 3rd though. That kind of move temporarily makes the team better, thus pushes all of the other draft picks down.

Of course. But i don't mind the idea of trying to improve. If we had made the playoffs due to seto's contirbutions we wouldn't have this discussion. If we missed the playoffs by one point, on the last day of the year and finished with the highest pick outside of the playoffs, do we have this discussion?

Is no improvement allowed? I'm definitly not a blind chevy supporter or anything, and i've got very realistic ideas about this season now (though i was optimistic coming in) I liked that trade because it showed an attempt to get better. Are no attempts to get better allowed? Are we just supposed to suck suck suck and then be a playoff team at once? What trades does that look like? Where do you draw the line?

Winning hockey games (and ultimately making the playoffs) is a hefty portion of luck. Is the team expected to be strong enough to make the playoff without any manner of "luck" before its acceptable to make trades like the seto one?


i get not being a fan of it now, but i wasn't willing to write this team off last season. IE: today, i wouldn't make that trade. But rewind the clock, and i'd probably still do it.

 

[truck]

Of course. But i don't mind the idea of trying to improve. If we had made the playoffs due to seto's contirbutions we wouldn't have this discussion. If we missed the playoffs by one point, on the last day of the year and finished with the highest pick outside of the playoffs, do we have this discussion?

Yes. Seems like the kind of move you make if you are betting on playoffs, much like not trading Ronnie last season.

Is no improvement allowed? I'm definitly not a blind chevy supporter or anything, and i've got very realistic ideas about this season now (though i was optimistic coming in) I liked that trade because it showed an attempt to get better. Are no attempts to get better allowed? Are we just supposed to suck suck suck and then be a playoff team at once? What trades does that look like? Where do you draw the line?

Improvement is allowed, but improvement with players that will remain assets is better than improving with rentals. Likewise, not giving up picks is better than giving up picks. If Gooch walks, the team loses any boost he offered and the pick.

Winning hockey games (and ultimately making the playoffs) is a hefty portion of luck. Is the team expected to be strong enough to make the playoff without any manner of "luck" before its acceptable to make trades like the seto one?

Debatable. There is never a firm rule. I just thought it odd for a team with the Jets talent level.

i get not being a fan of it now, but i wasn't willing to write this team off last season. IE: today, i wouldn't make that trade. But rewind the clock, and i'd probably still do it.

I guess the difference for me is that the team is more or less where I thought they'd be.

 

[Gm0ney]

Tell that to allot of people around here

Apparently teams don't even go from non-playoff teams to playoff teams in 3 years...

 

[King Woodballs]

Apparently teams don't even go from non-playoff teams to playoff teams in 3 years...

Apparently people don't have patience anymore, and don't understand the process that is in place.

 

[Savagestevo]

I did. Well I didn't know, but I considered it to be a likelihood.

I questioned the move for Gooch under that pretense when it was made made.

Gooch for a 2nd is good value if he resigns or if he can be traded for more, but I find a rent-a-player to be a out odd play for a team that was destined for the playoff bubble.

One of the biggest problems the Jets had in the previous season was forward depth yet they were in a fight for a playoff spot the entire year anyways. So Cheveldayoff went out and got Frolik and Setoguchi to help to push them over the edge. He might have underestimate how tough the West was going to be this year but you have to make some sort of conscious effort to improve your team instead of just sitting back and doing absolutely nothing. Technically Setoguchi is coming as advertised and some people want Frolik to stay here long term. The team is losing a bunch of one goal games though and is destined for the lottery this season, so with that being said Setoguchi should be traded. I don't really blame Cheveldayoff for trying to improve the team though, I only hope he tries to improve goaltending next time either at the deadline or through free agency.

 

[Sweech]

Thorburn. Hopefully his play on the 2nd line will have another team overvalue him.

 

[King Woodballs]

Okay. This we need a new goalie crap is over the top.
All it was around here was we need pavelec to play better.
Fair enough, he did need too.
He bring his sv% to what everyone wanted and it is still not good enough
He needs to be better
Come on already, this moving target stuff is beyond comical now.

 

[jetkarma*]

Thorburn. Hopefully his play on the 2nd line will have another team overvalue him.

Not after last night , he could have , should have prevented 2 of the goals.

 

[BigZ65]

Okay. This we need a new goalie crap is over the top.
All it was around here was we need pavelec to play better.
Fair enough, he did need too.
He bring his sv% to what everyone wanted and it is still not good enough
He needs to be better
Come on already, this moving target stuff is beyond comical now.

His save percentage is better, but pretty average at .912 even after a pretty good run to get it up that high. You don't think an NHL team can do better in goal?

Lundqvist in the same range is considered to be playing bad enough that he's battling for starts.

St. Louis is winning with Halak and Elliott posting a similar save percentage, yet are apparently shopping for an upgrade in goal.

 

[Savagestevo]

Okay. This we need a new goalie crap is over the top.
All it was around here was we need pavelec to play better.
Fair enough, he did need too.
He bring his sv% to what everyone wanted and it is still not good enough
He needs to be better
Come on already, this moving target stuff is beyond comical now.

He brought his save percentage to league average, but it was due to a good stretch of games he's done a couple of times in his career. Ondrej Pavelec is an inconsistent goaltender. He can play well for spurts but then not play well for others and do nothing to really contribute to winning games. I don't see a problem with bringing in a suitable goaltender to push Pavelec instead of just handing him the keys to the number 1 job with absolutely no competition. The Jets are getting nowhere doing that so what exactly is the harm in trying something different? It's not like Pavelec has proven without a shadow of a doubt he's part of the solution and not the problem.

 

[Sixty Minute Man]

Okay. This we need a new goalie crap is over the top.
All it was around here was we need pavelec to play better.
Fair enough, he did need too.
He bring his sv% to what everyone wanted and it is still not good enough
He needs to be better
Come on already, this moving target stuff is beyond comical now.

Here are Pavelec's Sv% by game:
.895 W
.917 W
.912 L
.933 L
.871 L
.917 L
.906 L
.885 W
.875 L
.909 L
.972 W
.909 L
.714 L
1.000W
.882 W
.953 W
.941 W
.917 L
.844 L
.943 L
.962 W
.941 L
.946 W
.808 L
.900 L
.885 L

- 6 games where he played excellent, and were wins.
- 3 games where he played excellent, but were losses.
- 7 games where he played terrible, and were losses.
- 3 games where he played terrible, but were wins.
- 3 games where he played league average. 1 win, 2 losses. (.917)
- 4 games where he played below average, but not terrible (over .901), all losses.

Conclusion:
- Pavelec's poor play has cost the team 11 games so far this season (26 games).

- He has won 7 games (played above average), as the other 3 wins happened in spite of really abysmal goal tending.

- Only 3 times could you say that he gave the team a chance to win (played very, very well, despite a loss). A common narrative that simply isn't true.

 

[StronGeer]

Sorry SMM, but that analysis doesn't stand up. He played excellent and we still lost games. So it stands to reason that even in those lost games where he played poorly, had he played well we still could have lost.

Also, on the average, a goalie is expected to play half of his games below average. 14 of his 26 have been below average. We go on a brief winning streak and he's playing average.

 

[untouchable21]

I definitely think some team out there wouldn't hesitate to trade a 2nd for Setoguchi. Chevy might even be more interested in targeting picks for the 2015 draft than replacing the 2014 picks he already traded away.

What about Slater? If he ever gets back playing, would the JETS consider moving him? Wright has done pretty well in that 4th center spot. Slater still has 1 year left on his contract. Would that be more of a deterrent than an asset if teams were looking at acquiring him?

Stuart and Thorbun would be other possibilities although I could see both being re-signed which i don't necessarily agree with.

Unless they plan on targeting another center in free agency, I doubt they trade Jokinen. They may just re-sign him as well. Another thing to consider is the market may not be that great a with as little as he's played in the post season.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

He brought his save percentage to league average, but it was due to a good stretch of games he's done a couple of times in his career. Ondrej Pavelec is an inconsistent goaltender. He can play well for spurts but then not play well for others and do nothing to really contribute to winning games. I don't see a problem with bringing in a suitable goaltender to push Pavelec instead of just handing him the keys to the number 1 job with absolutely no competition. The Jets are getting nowhere doing that so what exactly is the harm in trying something different? It's not like Pavelec has proven without a shadow of a doubt he's part of the solution and not the problem.

this...

 

[tntkid]

Pearn & Noel.

 

[Duke749]

I definitely think some team out there wouldn't hesitate to trade a 2nd for Setoguchi. Chevy might even be more interested in targeting picks for the 2015 draft than replacing the 2014 picks he already traded away.

What about Slater? If he ever gets back playing, would the JETS consider moving him? Wright has done pretty well in that 4th center spot. Slater still has 1 year left on his contract. Would that be more of a deterrent than an asset if teams were looking at acquiring him?

Stuart and Thorbun would be other possibilities although I could see both being re-signed which i don't necessarily agree with.

Unless they plan on targeting another center in free agency, I doubt they trade Jokinen. They may just re-sign him as well. Another thing to consider is the market may not be that great a with as little as he's played in the post season.

If Slater is traded, it sure as **** won't be because of Wright. Wright is a below average 4th liner. He's solid defensively, but is the biggest black hole offensively I've seen in awhile. Wright is on pace for just over 2 points. He has ONE point in 33 games. Slater is usually a pretty good bet for about 15 points. Wright is a good bet to go about 30 games without registering a point. Hell, the only reason he scored was off of a faceoff win to Stuart. If Slater is moved, it's because he can't stay healthy anymore. Can not wait till we have a 4th line that might actually score a few points here and there.

 

[Jet]

Tell that to allot of people around here

What does this post accomplish? It's another baseless accusation that somehow a bunch of posters here are saying something they aren't?

Who exactly thinks this team is a Stanley Cup contender? Who thinks this team is going from out of the playoffs to challenging for a cup. Point out ONE poster who has said it or alluded to it.

Can't?? That's what I thought.

 

[JetsFan815]

What does this post accomplish? It's another baseless accusation that somehow a bunch of posters here are saying something they aren't?

Who exactly thinks this team is a Stanley Cup contender? Who thinks this team is going from out of the playoffs to challenging for a cup. Point out ONE poster who has said it or alluded to it.

Can't?? That's what I thought.

Preach!

I find it disturbing that some posters try to portray other posters as "irrational" or "negative" if the other posters expect a modicum of progress in the this team from 2011 to today. All people want is to see a team that is in a realistic playoff race with hopes of making the playoffs. Its 33 games in and for all intents and purposes this team is pretty much out of the playoff race. That is reason enough for fans to be upset. People who keep saying "there is a plan" remind me of this Kevin Bacon scene from the end of animal house

 

[JetsFan815]

Oh boy I just noticed a depressing stat. Jets are tied with the Oilers for the 4th least number of Regulation/Overtime wins. Things are not going good if you are tied with the Oilers for something. I mean if you are going to suck, do it properly, atleast lose in regulation. I really hope the Jets stop getting the loser point and lose properly in regulation so atleast we improve our draft position. A lot of season still left so lets hope that the points total will fall in line with ROW as we get closer to the end.

 

[King Woodballs]

He brought his save percentage to league average, but it was due to a good stretch of games he's done a couple of times in his career. Ondrej Pavelec is an inconsistent goaltender. He can play well for spurts but then not play well for others and do nothing to really contribute to winning games. I don't see a problem with bringing in a suitable goaltender to push Pavelec instead of just handing him the keys to the number 1 job with absolutely no competition. The Jets are getting nowhere doing that so what exactly is the harm in trying something different? It's not like Pavelec has proven without a shadow of a doubt he's part of the solution and not the problem.

That is exactly what everyone wanted.
His sv% to be average. Because that was the reason this team was mediocre. Or at least that is what I was told.
So he did that and this team is still mediocre.

Cool how that all worked out.

 

[pcanuck]

We can nit-pick each player. I hate Buff with a passion. He has INCREDIBLE skills but can't play D at all. That being said - I don't want to trade him. I don't want to trade anyone! No one.

Noel must go first. We need to see what a quality coach can do with this team before blowing it up. Moving a guy like Kane because we're panicking is ridiculous. This year was a bust before it began. We didn't address our goaltending, defence or consistency on offence. What were people expecting? Although I blame Noel, Chevy has given him very few options other than the AHL and waiver wire. So Chevy is to blame as well.

I keep saying it - we NEED a president of hockey operations to critique the roles of Chevy and Noel. Until then, any trade would be a mistake. There are no quick fixes only massive mistakes. Moving a young Bogo, a star like Kane because he's in a slump or even trading Buff because it makes me feel better may not help this team in the long run.