TSN: WHKY - 200+ Players Boycott NA Professional Hockey

[Jim Bob]

Sarah Nurse was one of the players and she sits down to talk about things.

Basically, the NHL said that they wouldn't step in while there is a viable women's league in place.

So, the women pulled this move to say that the NWHL isn't a viable model in hopes that will prompt the NHL to step in.

We shall see if this gamble pays off.

 

[Jim Bob]

Women’s players hope NHL steps in to create new league

University at Buffalo sports law professor Nellie Drew said her children follow the NHL and NWHL and love the game. She wonders what happens next.

“The question is going to be whether the economic demand will be there to drive this,” Drew said. “Right now in 2019, do the women’s hockey players have the economic leverage to make an effective stand on this position? Maybe not. But do they have the capacity to drive public sentiment strongly enough that it will make the (NHL) consider it? Yeah, I think they do.”

NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly told The AP, “We will further explore the situation privately before taking any affirmative position on next steps.”

 

[SabresSharks]

Possibly NSFW.

 

[Gras]

If they were paid at the same rate per game as the base AHL salary for the 68 game season, factored out to their 16 game season, that would amount to about $10,500 for their 16 game NWHL season. I'd be curious how much of the operating costs of Harbor Center are covered by ticket and concessions sales, and what kind of advertising deals they have inside there. For the Beauts roster at that pay rate salary alone would be about $220,000 per game. Certainly a TV or radio broadcast contract would help offset these costs, but what kind of draw would they get. How much money would the NHL owners and players be willing to invest every year with the chance of very little returns.

 

[Jim Bob]

If they were paid at the same rate per game as the base AHL salary for the 68 game season, factored out to their 16 game season, that would amount to about $10,500 for their 16 game NWHL season. I'd be curious how much of the operating costs of Harbor Center are covered by ticket and concessions sales, and what kind of advertising deals they have inside there. For the Beauts roster at that pay rate salary alone would be about $220,000 per game. Certainly a TV or radio broadcast contract would help offset these costs, but what kind of draw would they get. How much money would the NHL owners and players be willing to invest every year with the chance of very little returns.

Wouldn't the $220-230k number be the season player salary budget and not the per game salary number if there are 23 players making $10.5k per season?

 

[CatsforReinhart]

I don't want to see cold but if the demand isn't there then it dies just like every other league.

If they want to make it a sexist issue then so be it.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

If they were paid at the same rate per game as the base AHL salary for the 68 game season, factored out to their 16 game season, that would amount to about $10,500 for their 16 game NWHL season. I'd be curious how much of the operating costs of Harbor Center are covered by ticket and concessions sales, and what kind of advertising deals they have inside there. For the Beauts roster at that pay rate salary alone would be about $220,000 per game. Certainly a TV or radio broadcast contract would help offset these costs, but what kind of draw would they get. How much money would the NHL owners and players be willing to invest every year with the chance of very little returns.

Why would they get a TV contract when no one is watching games? TV stations are in the business of making money.

Trying to create equality in women sports just isn't going to work. People don't watch women sports the way they do men's and it never will be any different.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Do these woman hockey players expect to earn enough of a salary to make a living just from playing hockey? If the players in the NLL have real jobs outside of lacrosse to make ends meet then there is zero chance womans hockey gets anywhere near that much $ to live off.

The truth stings but womans hockey is a niche sport and just not that marketable. No one cares about the WNBA and basketball is a far more popular sport.

 

[Gras]

Wouldn't the $220-230k number be the season player salary budget and not the per game salary number if there are 23 players making $10.5k per season?

Yea, per season.

 

[Gras]

Why would they get a TV contract when no one is watching games? TV stations are in the business of making money.

Trying to create equality in women sports just isn't going to work. People don't watch women sports the way they do men's and it never will be any different.

Maybe a women focused network would pickup something, like Bravo or Lifetime, perhaps a streaming platform would be more feasible, or getting games broadcast on something like Sirius.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

My idea for women's hockey to be successful is to play during intermission of NHL games. I forwarded my idea to the NHL.

-Make 12-15 minute periods between intermission giving time to clean the ice.
-charge a percentage extra per game say 1-2 dollars per ticket going to the women's team.
-fans are already there
-helps promote the game
-keeps operating costs lower since they are piggybacking off of the NHL game
-TV coverage through the NHL contract

Seems like a winning idea, sure there are some logistics but it would be maximum exposure.

 

[Gabrielor]

I remember some of the Bills worked off-season jobs in the 1970s. Safety Steve Freeman was. Cotton farmer for example. Others worked construction or in a factory.

I'm a Bills fan now, but I grew up a 49ers fan (thank you NFL Films of the early 90s).



Favorite Super Bowl ever (23). Listen to the lines after the GAME-WINNING touchdown around 1:44:50.

"Touchdown John Taylor" "John Taylor, who sells used cars in the off-season..."

January 1989. Super bowl champion receiver of arguably the most well-funded team at that time.

 

[sabresandcanucks]

Brian Burke revealed a lot on HNIC just now...

Says the NHL is interested but cannot get involved until the current league resolves all outstanding legal obligations. NHL has hired a team to create a strategy that can make this viable long term. It could be a year before they are able to go forward with that plan. Wages will still be moderate at first...number mentioned was under 100K. That would still be a massive improvement. Burke mentioned that there is no private model that can currently succeed without the NHL's help.

 

[Cirris]

My guess is that the NHL owners don't believe the upside outpaces the downside in this area.

The other aspect is, money. It's really a question of how much money NHL wants to lose on this. Or if they can even control their loses in the long run.

Women's sports league has a big problem, because the women in their respective league continue conflate "equal pay" issues in an entertainment market business. This is a big issue right now in women's soccer as they're continuing to use social justice activism to push for what essentially would be men's leagues/clubs subsidizing the less lucrative women's club's labor expenses.

The US women's soccer club can make a stronger argument given their success on the pitch. But overall women's sports viewership and revenue lag far behind the Men's teams.

Kim Pegula might be the best hope for something happening. This movement will need someone within the NHL to be a champion for the cause.

Yeah. The Pegula family seem less adverse into getting involved in social justice quagmire as other owners are. Which is why they stepped up in the first place to help fund the Beauts. And gave blessings to Buffalo Bills players taking part in the kneeling campaign.
But they're most likely going to have to go it alone on this one.

I don't see Bettman or Fehr championing this cause. But, maybe they will surprise me.

Because it's a lose lose situation. In that case try and ignore the women til they go away. That's the best strategy to not lose money.

 

[Endless Ike]

I don’t know about women’s hockey, but I do know that both elite women’s soccer and elite women’s basketball is sometimes but not necessarily always competitive with men’s HS All Star team-level talent.

It’s a tough sale, for the same reason minor leagues far from the top tier of any sport are a tough sale.

I think the NHL would be extremely foolish to commit substantial resources, even if it is a nice thing to do.

 

[Djp]

Do these woman hockey players expect to earn enough of a salary to make a living just from playing hockey? If the players in the NLL have real jobs outside of lacrosse to make ends meet then there is zero chance womans hockey gets anywhere near that much $ to live off.

The truth stings but womans hockey is a niche sport and just not that marketable. No one cares about the WNBA and basketball is a far more popular sport.

This is sexist

A women’s hockey can work like the WNBA.

An NHL supported league of 10 teams to start. Playing a 40 game schedule.

20 home games, 8000 fans per avg $20 per ticket. $3M in gate revenue.

A 25 person roster with a $2M cap. Star players making $125 K.

Salaries from there on goes based on revenue.

Set up a national TV deal for 2 games a week and some p,ayoffs.

Teams located in Great Lakes, northeast in US and Canada.

Teams in hamilton, Quebec City, Boston, buffalo, New York, Toronto, and Detroit, Chicago, Minnesota , Grand Forks.Winnipeg



Lacrosse is s niche sport that is fractured with multipke leagues of indoor and outdoor. Notice indoor soccer has died with MLS expanding.

 

[Paxon]

My idea for women's hockey to be successful is to play during intermission of NHL games. I forwarded my idea to the NHL.

-Make 12-15 minute periods between intermission giving time to clean the ice.
-charge a percentage extra per game say 1-2 dollars per ticket going to the women's team.
-fans are already there
-helps promote the game
-keeps operating costs lower since they are piggybacking off of the NHL game
-TV coverage through the NHL contract

Seems like a winning idea, sure there are some logistics but it would be maximum exposure.

Intermission is for little kids who fall down during breakaways, not professional hockey players. A league is never going to work when it doesn't even have its own games.

 

[Jim Bob]

This is sexist

A women’s hockey can work like the WNBA.

An NHL supported league of 10 teams to start. Playing a 40 game schedule.

20 home games, 8000 fans per avg $20 per ticket. $3M in gate revenue.

A 25 person roster with a $2M cap. Star players making $125 K.

Salaries from there on goes based on revenue.

Set up a national TV deal for 2 games a week and some p,ayoffs.

Teams located in Great Lakes, northeast in US and Canada.

Teams in hamilton, Quebec City, Boston, buffalo, New York, Toronto, and Detroit, Chicago, Minnesota , Grand Forks.Winnipeg

Lacrosse is s niche sport that is fractured with multipke leagues of indoor and outdoor. Notice indoor soccer has died with MLS expanding.

I doubt that NHL owners would want to underwrite the huge losses that would come with a $2M per team salary cap and a 40 game regular season.

You aren't going to get 8000 fans per game on average for 20 home games.

Plus, just the gameday costs to open up the arena 20 times per season will be huge.

 

[joshjull]

Good support from NFL players association



NHLPA took two days to put this out.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

This is sexist

A women’s hockey can work like the WNBA.

An NHL supported league of 10 teams to start. Playing a 40 game schedule.

20 home games, 8000 fans per avg $20 per ticket. $3M in gate revenue.

A 25 person roster with a $2M cap. Star players making $125 K.

Salaries from there on goes based on revenue.

Set up a national TV deal for 2 games a week and some p,ayoffs.

Teams located in Great Lakes, northeast in US and Canada.

Teams in hamilton, Quebec City, Boston, buffalo, New York, Toronto, and Detroit, Chicago, Minnesota , Grand Forks.Winnipeg



Lacrosse is s niche sport that is fractured with multipke leagues of indoor and outdoor. Notice indoor soccer has died with MLS expanding.

So your post is...
He is sexist
Womens hockey will work
If the men pay for it

8000 fans for women's hockey at 20 dollars a pop isn't going to happen and no one is giving women's hockey a TV contract. Even the all star game only got 6000 fans Also in your scenario you are probably looking at over 1 million dollars in operating costs but probably even more than that.

That is the downfall in women's hockey. Operating costs far exceed revenue. In your scenario as soon as you lose attendance you are bankrupt and I am not sure you are already operating at a loss. To get women's hockey off of the ground they will have to operate at a massive loss for years and who is going to dump the money into it? I guess in your scenario, then men.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Good support from NFL players association



NHLPA took two days to put this out.

Sorry but words is not support.

 

[Buffaloed]

The NFLPA and NHLPA could easily fund a women's hockey league if they donated their fine and suspension money. Tom Wilson is good for close to a million.

 

[Gras]

This is sexist

A women’s hockey can work like the WNBA.

An NHL supported league of 10 teams to start. Playing a 40 game schedule.

20 home games, 8000 fans per avg $20 per ticket. $3M in gate revenue.

A 25 person roster with a $2M cap. Star players making $125 K.

Salaries from there on goes based on revenue.

Set up a national TV deal for 2 games a week and some p,ayoffs.

Teams located in Great Lakes, northeast in US and Canada.

Teams in hamilton, Quebec City, Boston, buffalo, New York, Toronto, and Detroit, Chicago, Minnesota , Grand Forks.Winnipeg



Lacrosse is s niche sport that is fractured with multipke leagues of indoor and outdoor. Notice indoor soccer has died with MLS expanding.

Works at like a 10mil loss

 

[missingmika]

Works at like a 10mil loss

NFLL Europe operated for 16 years with an estimated $30,000,000 a year loss.

There's other benefits outside the financial statements for having the league.

Also, there'st the investment take on it. Many startups run a loss for a bit. But the appreciation of your stocks
needs to be taken into account as well.