News Article: While coaching peers come and go, Red Wings' Mike Babcock carries on

[Datsyuk4SelkeAward]

He doesn't know because *he's never seen them play up.*

The AHL and NHL are different, obviously. We expect people that are good in the A to be able to translate that to the NHL, but that doesn't always happen. So Babcock, who seems like a pretty conservative guy, chooses to go with the safer play.

But maybe if we hadn't clogged up our forwards pipeline for so long and given these kids a chance every once in a while he'd have seen what they could do.

Therein lies my problem with the entire thing. We keep resigning these aged veterans who obviously can't play at this point (Cleary I'm looking at you) and these kids aren't given a chance at all.

 

[Frk It]

Jaster and Heaton I see your guys point, I was just more or less thinking out loud.

I guess I was thinking/speaking in ideals because there's no way Babcock could scout the Griffins and coach the Wings at the same time.

And really Holland should be the one on top of that, and be the one preventing the unnecessary signings.

 

[Datsyuk4SelkeAward]

"Disturbing and alarming." Man, some of you guys are suckers for quotes. You actually believe that Babcock didn't know what he had in these kids? Seems overly naive to me. Coaches are often cryptic, and Babcock very much so. It was his way of heaping praise on the kid while also saying that now that he's actually played some NHL games, we know what we have. Before that, it was only a guess as to how he'd play in the NHL over the course of several games. No one knew how Sheahan, or any of these other kids would actually handle the transition.

You can watch a kid in the A, evaluate his skills, and project how he'll do in the NHL. But everyone handles that transition differently. Some far better, or far worse, than others. You don't know until they actually go through it.

Fair enough and maybe I was going a bit overboard about it. He doesn't get to see how these kids while handle the transition or perform however if he keeps asking holland to bring in guys like Cleary/Sammy/Weiss however and that's my problem with it. Either spend the money and bring in better players who are younger than those guys (Minus Weiss) or spend the sap better than Weiss's cap hit or let the kids play and see who handles the transition better than others.

 

[joe89]

Babcock knew Glendening would make it before his first game, just saying..

-“Oh, he will play at the next level, for sure,” Babcock said. “He just knows how to play. He does things right, and he is an everydayer. When you are a coach in the NHL, that is what you are looking for.

Maybe this will make him more open minded to young skill players, too.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

The only thing I've got against Babcock is that he's very rigid when it comes to how he uses players. He's not willing to let a player play outside of the box he's put them in. I think that's part of why the Hudler and Filppula situations ended the way they did, and I think Kindl is going the same way. I completely believe Kindl will go to some basement team and look surprisingly good. I think there are really just some players who don't play good Mike Babcock hockey, but still play good hockey and end up doing it elsewhere.

Of course, maybe that's more a knock on Holland, who should be able to figure out who doesn't work in the system.

 

[drw02]

I tend to think Blashill and the coaching staff in Grand Rapids has more to do with the success of these young kids in the NHL than Babcock does. Just speculation on my part but it seems Babcock is all about team oriented stuff. He doesn't seem to focus much on the individual. I doubt he's spending extra time on the ice working with the kids after practice and things of that nature.

 

[Henkka]

"Disturbing and alarming." Man, some of you guys are suckers for quotes. You actually believe that Babcock didn't know what he had in these kids? Seems overly naive to me. Coaches are often cryptic, and Babcock very much so. It was his way of heaping praise on the kid while also saying that now that he's actually played some NHL games, we know what we have. Before that, it was only a guess as to how he'd play in the NHL over the course of several games. No one knew how Sheahan, or any of these other kids would actually handle the transition.

You can watch a kid in the A, evaluate his skills, and project how he'll do in the NHL. But everyone handles that transition differently. Some far better, or far worse, than others. You don't know until they actually go through it.

Babcock has all the time talked (mentioned by himself in news articles) how he calls to Blashill everyday and discusses about those guys. He is getting every information possible. That's why we have and why we took the Griffins total control two seasons ago. No more idiots thinking selfishly about their careers just for AHL-success, everything in our Hockey College is now built to help the Red Wings future.

 

[Vladdy84]

Babcock knew Glendening would make it before his first game, just saying..



Maybe this will make him more open minded to young skill players, too.

How many other NHL teams would Luke be playing for?

 

[dtones520]

I tend to think Blashill and the coaching staff in Grand Rapids has more to do with the success of these young kids in the NHL than Babcock does. Just speculation on my part but it seems Babcock is all about team oriented stuff. He doesn't seem to focus much on the individual. I doubt he's spending extra time on the ice working with the kids after practice and things of that nature.

Isn't the head coach of your NHL team supposed to do what's best for the team? The NHL, and even moreso the Red Wings, is a results based business and your results are the team winning. The AHL is about developing players into potential NHL players, winning is nice, but getting the most out of your individuals and making them NHL ready is the ultimate goal. Not saying you don't develop the young players once they get to the NHL, but you have to fit them into your system and get them playing in your system. You also have to adjust your system based on the players you have.

Part of the issue with Holland and, to a lesser extent, Babcock is that they have had a lot of success doing things a certain way. Even after the lockout and the salary Cap was implemented we had a legit cup contender until after Rafalski retired. How did we accomplish those things? We rode veterans hard and let the youngsters earn their spots in the lineup. Guys like Draper, Drake, Maltby, Holmstrom, Rafalski, Lidstrom etc we're big parts of our early success after the lockout. Obviously Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Franzen were the offensive forces, but those veteran role players had a huge part of what we accomplished. So why would we be so eager to change a system that clearly worked? So over the past few years we have tried to keep that system of veterans leading the way in tact with guys like Cleary, Bertuzzi, Samuelsson etc. But the league is getting away from that being a viable way of doing things, and those players just weren't good enough to fill the roles like the Drapers of the world could. Couple that with injuries and you have what we have now.

Luckily, at least Babcock right now, we are realizing we need to change things up a bit and let the veterans who lead the team by example be our best players (Datsyuk, Zetteberg and Kronwall) and let our youngsters gain experience while learning from guys who have proven they can do it in the NHL. And based on how our young players have played, I am confident that once we get healthy (or I should say if) that we actually have a pretty good team at the end of the day. We will see how the rest of the year and offseason plays out, but I think our leadership team is realizing that things need to change. I just don't really think you can blame them for being reluctant to change.

 

[Flowah]

Babcock has all the time talked (mentioned by himself in news articles) how he calls to Blashill everyday and discusses about those guys. He is getting every information possible. That's why we have and why we took the Griffins total control two seasons ago. No more idiots thinking selfishly about their careers just for AHL-success, everything in our Hockey College is now built to help the Red Wings future.

Er, we're just taking what Babcock says at face value. Is there a reason we shouldn't? When he says things like "Now we know what's in the cupboard" "they're better than I thought." "I'm optimistic now."

That sounds like a guy who didn't know what the players could do at the NHL level.

At some point, people are going to start making actual arguments instead of "these guys are professionals and you guys aren't and therefore everything you say is invalid because you guys don't know better."

But I guess today isn't that day.

 

[InjuredChoker]

How many other NHL teams would Luke be playing for?

bylsma loves those (borderline) useless grinders.

 

[jaster]

Er, we're just taking what Babcock says at face value.

And that's where you guys went off the rails

 

[Henkka]

Part of the issue with Holland and, to a lesser extent, Babcock is that they have had a lot of success doing things a certain way. Even after the lockout and the salary Cap was implemented we had a legit cup contender until after Rafalski retired. How did we accomplish those things? We rode veterans hard and let the youngsters earn their spots in the lineup. Guys like Draper, Drake, Maltby, Holmstrom, Rafalski, Lidstrom etc we're big parts of our early success after the lockout. Obviously Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Franzen were the offensive forces, but those veteran role players had a huge part of what we accomplished. So why would we be so eager to change a system that clearly worked? So over the past few years we have tried to keep that system of veterans leading the way in tact with guys like Cleary, Bertuzzi, Samuelsson etc. But the league is getting away from that being a viable way of doing things, and those players just weren't good enough to fill the roles like the Drapers of the world could. Couple that with injuries and you have what we have now.

Bingo.

Luckily, at least Babcock right now, we are realizing we need to change things up a bit and let the veterans who lead the team by example be our best players (Datsyuk, Zetteberg and Kronwall) and let our youngsters gain experience while learning from guys who have proven they can do it in the NHL. And based on how our young players have played, I am confident that once we get healthy (or I should say if) that we actually have a pretty good team at the end of the day. We will see how the rest of the year and offseason plays out, but I think our leadership team is realizing that things need to change. I just don't really think you can blame them for being reluctant to change.

Yeah, we entering now in a new era, where the roster is not anymore filled with veteran depth. Because our prospect core has reached a point, where they are enough talented and ready, and are losing their waiver eligibilities at same rate than roster spots are opening.

 

[Crymson]

If he actually meant that bit about "the player vs the person", Cleary would never see the ice. Let alone play the minutes he does.

So I take this with a big grain of salt.

Agreed. His treatment of Cleary makes a mockery of that claim. He has openly named himself as Dan Cleary's biggest fan, and did so in the context of putting Cleary with Pavel Datsyuk in order to "get him going." This, for a player who, at the time, had 22 goals in his previous 148 regular season games, and whose body is very obviously broken beyond hope of repair. That number is now 24 in 178, and Cleary, despite being more devilishly slow than ever, and notwithstanding his embarrassingly bad level of play, continues to get top minutes. This is favoritism at its worst, and it has a deleterious effect on the team that is plain as day to everyone. Yet it continues.

 

[drw02]

Isn't the head coach of your NHL team supposed to do what's best for the team? The NHL, and even moreso the Red Wings, is a results based business and your results are the team winning. The AHL is about developing players into potential NHL players, winning is nice, but getting the most out of your individuals and making them NHL ready is the ultimate goal. Not saying you don't develop the young players once they get to the NHL, but you have to fit them into your system and get them playing in your system. You also have to adjust your system based on the players you have.

Part of the issue with Holland and, to a lesser extent, Babcock is that they have had a lot of success doing things a certain way. Even after the lockout and the salary Cap was implemented we had a legit cup contender until after Rafalski retired. How did we accomplish those things? We rode veterans hard and let the youngsters earn their spots in the lineup. Guys like Draper, Drake, Maltby, Holmstrom, Rafalski, Lidstrom etc we're big parts of our early success after the lockout. Obviously Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Franzen were the offensive forces, but those veteran role players had a huge part of what we accomplished. So why would we be so eager to change a system that clearly worked? So over the past few years we have tried to keep that system of veterans leading the way in tact with guys like Cleary, Bertuzzi, Samuelsson etc. But the league is getting away from that being a viable way of doing things, and those players just weren't good enough to fill the roles like the Drapers of the world could. Couple that with injuries and you have what we have now.

Luckily, at least Babcock right now, we are realizing we need to change things up a bit and let the veterans who lead the team by example be our best players (Datsyuk, Zetteberg and Kronwall) and let our youngsters gain experience while learning from guys who have proven they can do it in the NHL. And based on how our young players have played, I am confident that once we get healthy (or I should say if) that we actually have a pretty good team at the end of the day. We will see how the rest of the year and offseason plays out, but I think our leadership team is realizing that things need to change. I just don't really think you can blame them for being reluctant to change.

I was attempting to respond to the earlier posts saying "Babcock has done a great job with the kids", etc....I agree it's not Babcock's job to develop these kids. His job is to win. Reason, albeit somewhat anecdotal, to think Blashill has done a great job developing these kids and preparing them for the NHL.

 

[Frk It]

And that's where you guys went off the rails

I didn't mean to open a can of worms, I was just making an observation.

My bad!

 

[TatarTangle]

At some point, people are going to start making actual arguments instead of "these guys are professionals and you guys aren't and therefore everything you say is invalid because you guys don't know better."

But I guess today isn't that day.

It's hip to be square, man.

 

[opivy]

I tend to think Blashill and the coaching staff in Grand Rapids has more to do with the success of these young kids in the NHL than Babcock does. Just speculation on my part but it seems Babcock is all about team oriented stuff. He doesn't seem to focus much on the individual. I doubt he's spending extra time on the ice working with the kids after practice and things of that nature.

Why would he? I imagine the assistants do that portion, the head coach has a lot more things on his plate than trying to develop skills in a youngster. Sink or swim in the bigs.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Er, we're just taking what Babcock says at face value. Is there a reason we shouldn't? When he says things like "Now we know what's in the cupboard" "they're better than I thought." "I'm optimistic now."

That sounds like a guy who didn't know what the players could do at the NHL level.

At some point, people are going to start making actual arguments instead of "these guys are professionals and you guys aren't and therefore everything you say is invalid because you guys don't know better."

But I guess today isn't that day.

Guess we forgot this is the same guy that said tie goes to the veteran when he sent all these kids down, guys he did get to see playing against NHL competition. Sheahan looked pretty good in the pre-season to me, had gained the additional half step in skating and was good on the boards. Even his long time enemy in these parts Captain Bob was posting nice things about his play in the pre-season.

But that was Babcock saying that not Holland on the vets win ties. Babcock says hey I am done with Sammy, Holland dumps him. Babcock because of the kind of coach he is and the respect he has gained gets a lot of say about who sees the ice when and how often.

Now at the end of the day the buck stops with Holland so he hasn't been doing as well as he could the last couple years and he does believe in this depth. There is also the scary version of since our trainers suck, we got rid of all these vets have a similar amount of injuries and are sitting in basically second to last place. Now a part of me says at least when that happens you end up with a high pick, but I doubt people wouldn't be still miserably unhappy with the way it played out.

Babcock won't be fired he will refuse to continue coaching in Detroit without whatever extension he feels earned or new titles. Imagine if they make Babcock and assistant GM in title with more player movement power... Babcock could leave for U of M or just another opportunity. Holland isn't going to be fired, he will eventually move upstairs in a different role. It will work out but these guys don't actually have job security problems and even as someone that thinks Babs message hasn't always been getting through and worries about coaches staying in one place too long, they have earned this kind of security and a couple more seasons to figure things out before they are realistically in any kind of trouble.

Rough to say it about a guy making living off of it, but I would like to see Piet Van Zant fired at the end of this season, no matter what else is happening in this organization. Only team in the NHL with 200+ man games lost for five straight seasons, you guys can talk luck, but the training staff and strength and conditioning guys have failed us, that angle is also getting the country club treatment we talk about, they are not doing their jobs.

 

[Flowah]

Yeah, we entering now in a new era, where the roster is not anymore filled with veteran depth. Because our prospect core has reached a point, where they are enough talented and ready, and are losing their waiver eligibilities at same rate than roster spots are opening.

You know the only reason we're seeing our kids is because our team is completely riddled with injuries. That's either by design or by accident.

If the only reason guys like Bert, Sammy, Cleary, Eaves, Tootoo are getting sat are for better players is an accident, then we have a problem.

If we thought we'd have 5+ forwards injured at the same time for large chunks of the season, then that is another problem.

 

[14ari13]

The only thing I've got against Babcock is that he's very rigid when it comes to how he uses players. He's not willing to let a player play outside of the box he's put them in. I think that's part of why the Hudler and Filppula situations ended the way they did, and I think Kindl is going the same way. I completely believe Kindl will go to some basement team and look surprisingly good. I think there are really just some players who don't play good Mike Babcock hockey, but still play good hockey and end up doing it elsewhere.

Of course, maybe that's more a knock on Holland, who should be able to figure out who doesn't work in the system.

+1

I tend to think Blashill and the coaching staff in Grand Rapids has more to do with the success of these young kids in the NHL than Babcock does. Just speculation on my part but it seems Babcock is all about team oriented stuff. He doesn't seem to focus much on the individual. I doubt he's spending extra time on the ice working with the kids after practice and things of that nature.

Babcock makes some decisions which seem very strange. We dominoteorien see the players at practice, he does.

 

[Henkka]

You know the only reason we're seeing our kids is because our team is completely riddled with injuries. That's either by design or by accident.

If the only reason guys like Bert, Sammy, Cleary, Eaves, Tootoo are getting sat are for better players is an accident, then we have a problem.

If we thought we'd have 5+ forwards injured at the same time for large chunks of the season, then that is another problem.

I'm talking about next off-season.

I know, you believe before you see it.

(that Holland is not gonna sign any vets instead of just bringing up kids with lost waiver eligibility)

EDIT:

This has been my plan since last summer:

2014 off-season movements:
1. Zeta --> Zeta
2. Dats --> Dats
3. Mule --> Mule
4. Alfie --> Alfie/another elite UFA
5. Weiss --> Weiss
6. Gus --> Gus
7. Helm --> Helm
8. AKader --> Akader
9. Tatar --> Tatar
10. Bert --> let walk --> promote Sheahan (big bodied screener for big bodied screener, not waiver exempt at 2014-15 season)
11. Andy --> Andy
12. Mills --> Mills
13. Cleary --> let walk --> promote Callahan (net-front + PK ability, not waiver exempt at 2014-15 season)
14. Eaves ---> let walk --> promote Ferraro (PK grinder, not waiver exempt at 2014-15 season)
-------------------
15. Sammy --> let walk --> Jurco (1st TOP6 injury replacement, waiver exempt)
16. Glendy --> Glendy (1st Bottom6 injury replacement, waiver exempt)
15. Tootoo --> waived again, or bought out
17. Emmerton --> let walk

Or, maybe about that Callahan promoting I wasn't that sure in those summer visions, it was just on paper. Mitchell-boy has surpriced us this season so totally, that he should almost be a lock for next season roster. Won't believe anymore that he could clear waivers. He has been that good.

 

[drw02]

Why would he? I imagine the assistants do that portion, the head coach has a lot more things on his plate than trying to develop skills in a youngster. Sink or swim in the bigs.

Hence why I said Blashill AND the coaching staff. A few players have mentioned Spiros Anastas as being a big help and great teacher. But I've also heard Blashill talk about himself working hands on with some of these kids on various things. Perhaps he's more of a teacher than most other head coaches.

 

[14ari13]

+1

Babcock makes some decisions which seem very strange. We dominoteorien see the players at practice, he does.

* we do not see the players at practice

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Hence why I said Blashill AND the coaching staff. A few players have mentioned Spiros Anastas as being a big help and great teacher. But I've also heard Blashill talk about himself working hands on with some of these kids on various things. Perhaps he's more of a teacher than most other head coaches.

Blashill isn't as far removed from his USHL and NCAA days as Babcock is from his WHL and minor hockey days. It is also a much bigger part of his job description, it sounds like most of what makes him a successful coach is just this. It is how he turned around an awful Indianapolis team in a hurry in the USHL, it is how he turned around Western. It also might be what rubbed some of the veterans wrong when he was an assistant without pro success, something I don't think will be a problem with his next NHL gig.

Each guys have strengths, teaching and system implementation is clearly in my opinion Blashill's greatest strength as a coach. Will say for the millionth time around here, but honestly I don't think anybody gets the neutral zone quite like him, it is really impressive. He gets guys to understand expectations and from most accounts is willing to spend as much time as they want on anything. Since Jurco is a gym rat and would ask for video breakdowns, Blashill is all over that. But even Blashill is going to have to learn as I am sure Babcock did who has a wonderful record in terms of WHL, WJC and minor hockey that the NHL level isn't a hand holding league. Teaching is a part of it to be sure, but I think a lot of coaches like their players tagging along and learning from the other players.

You see at the AHL level many of the veterans while nice players cannot teach you about how to get into and stay in the show. I like Grant, Paetsch, Hoggan and Evans, but really only two of those have seen the NHL for any meaningful time and they both didn't stick for what you're shooting for. However in an NHL locker room, pretty easy to say watch what Datsyuk and Zetterberg are doing, ask Kronwall where you need to improve and I think the Wings veteran leadership has always taken that task on, in fact one again maybe this was at the heart of their disconnect with Blashill first time around.