News Article: While coaching peers come and go, Red Wings' Mike Babcock carries on

[InjuredChoker]

“One of the best things that might have happened to this organization is us being so injured,†Babcock said. “What I mean is, we get to see these kids on the ice, so you know what’s in the cupboard. They’ve been way better than I thought. I’m optimistic now that we don’t have to fall off the map and go through misery for 10 years like others do. I see great things coming.â€

“If you walk in our dressing room today, a lot of guys are (ticked) off at me, and they’re probably different than the ones (ticked) off last week,†Babcock said. “Normally, they’re the ones that aren’t playing. One thing I can’t do is confuse the player with the person. I love the people, but they don’t pay me to evaluate that. They pay me to evaluate the player. I have to base my decisions on what I see, shift to shift, game to game.â€

That’s blunt talk from Babcock, not brash talk. Ask him about his future, and he’s not certain. He timed his latest contract to expire when the last of his three children graduates from high school in 2015.

After that? Holland said he considers Babcock among the top two or three coaches in the world. He also knows about shelf lives and adaptability.

“I’m gonna sit down in the summer and see what Mike’s thinking,†Holland said. “Certainly I believe we have a great working relationship. He’s got tons of passion, tons of work ethic. We’ve never missed the playoffs under his watch, and I’m confident we’re gonna find a way to play our way in. The team plays hard and seems to respond to him.â€

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140130/SPORTS0103/301300041#ixzz2rtZuzvjs

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[Frk It]

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140130/SPORTS0103/301300041#ixzz2rtZuzvjs

If he actually meant that bit about "the player vs the person", Cleary would never see the ice. Let alone play the minutes he does.

So I take this with a big grain of salt.

But I like the bit about what he said about the kids, and how they are better than he thought they were.

 

[Vladdy84]

Poor Mike Babcock. The Survivor. Get rid of the trash and hire Blash.

 

[InjuredChoker]

If he actually meant that bit about "the player vs the person", Cleary would never see the ice. Let alone play the minutes he does.

So I take this with a big grain of salt. But line the bit about what he said about the kids, and how they are better than he thought they were.

take everything you read from the internet with the grain of salt.

but i thought there were lots of interesting tidbids.

they talk about babcock's situation next summer with hollabd.. offseasons are often interesting but i feel next one will be very important one for DRW.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I'm glad that it's not automatic that he's coming back. I think he will, ultimately, come back, but it might give them some perspective. Then again, lately it sounds more like Holland is the problem more than Babcock. Holland seems to want to keep doing the same stuff, while Babcock is talking a lot about the kids and how they're stealing jobs.

 

[mindfly]

Blashill needs to replace him in 2015.

 

[Kronwalled55]

I have little reason to believe that Holland and Babcock are even on the same book, let alone the same page when it comes to what this team "needs."

If I had to pick a side, I think Babcock has the better idea. I would like to hear otherwise without using the name Dan Cleary. Bertuzzi isn't playing, Samuelsson didn't play unless they were desperate. He uses forwards at the point because none of the defensemen seem to know what they're doing back there except for Kronwall... and he refuses to shoot anymore. He has given Sheahan and Jurco ample opportunities, and they've been great. There's a lot of negatives too, but I don't feel like going into them because it's essentially like playing a broken record. I don't like Cleary just like many of you, and I don't like Abdelkader playing on the top line. But I do feel that Babcock is the lesser of two evils going forward.

 

[InjuredChoker]

^^^

possibly but if someone leaves, it's babcock.

that might be the reason to give babs another chance but holland has track record that is so good that it's guaranteed that he's basically never going to get fired. he's done when he wants.

 

[Pavels Dog]

If we ever do get healthy and we still aren't putting together some wins and getting into the playoffs and having a respectable performance there, maybe it's worth turning the page and letting Blashill take the team into the next phase of the rebuild. We're not there yet though. I think the team has been playing very well since the Winter Classic and it's purely a lack of health that has kept us from winning more games.

 

[crashman]

I have little reason to believe that Holland and Babcock are even on the same book, let alone the same page when it comes to what this team "needs."

If I had to pick a side, I think Babcock has the better idea. I would like to hear otherwise without using the name Dan Cleary. Bertuzzi isn't playing, Samuelsson didn't play unless they were desperate. He uses forwards at the point because none of the defensemen seem to know what they're doing back there except for Kronwall... and he refuses to shoot anymore. He has given Sheahan and Jurco ample opportunities, and they've been great. There's a lot of negatives too, but I don't feel like going into them because it's essentially like playing a broken record. I don't like Cleary just like many of you, and I don't like Abdelkader playing on the top line. But I do feel that Babcock is the lesser of two evils going forward.

I agree. Babcock squeezed every bit out of our misfit lineup in the playoffs last year. The Wings had no business even being in that series against Chicago. Holland created this country club logjam all on his own.

Babcock has made some questionable decisions with line-combos, but he's also gotten more out of some players than I ever thought possible.

 

[Heaton]

I agree. Babcock squeezed every bit out of our misfit lineup in the playoffs last year. The Wings had no business even being in that series against Chicago. Holland created this country club logjam all on his own.

Babcock has made some question decisions with line-combos, but he's also gotten more out of some players than I ever thought possible.

I agree. I think the Cleary thing is blown out of proportion, but it's a microcosm of the issues with the Wings. I keep saying it, but it will be amazing how much 'better' of a coach Babcock becomes when Cleary, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi, Quincey etc... are off the team and hopefully better talent is brought in.

It's amazing how good of a coach MacLean was last year when the team had nothing to lose and only had to worry about working hard without stars, he doesn't look so great now.

People harp too much on small things, I'd be fine with a coaching change, but I wouldn't expect a huge 180 turn like I think some are expecting. Babcock is a proven winner and I don't believe the changes people have wanted during the year is the difference. More experience would've been garnered, but Tatar has turned into a force, same with Sheahan and others. Is that all on Babcock? Absolutely not, but he does get some credit.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I agree. Babcock squeezed every bit out of our misfit lineup in the playoffs last year. The Wings had no business even being in that series against Chicago. Holland created this country club logjam all on his own.

Babcock has made some question decisions with line-combos, but he's also gotten more out of some players than I ever thought possible.

Absolutely. I also completely disagree with the people who say he's bad with the kids. They've all played great and seem to be developing nicely. Seemingly weird decisions like not giving Smith PP time may be a reason he's starting to become safer defensively, and not throwing Tatar into the top 6 could be a way to keep his confidence and intensity up. All I know is it's working. It's just taken him a bit longer than desired to realize Bert and Cleary are done.

 

[SoupNazi]

Absolutely. I also completely disagree with the people who say he's bad with the kids. They've all played great and seem to be developing nicely. Seemingly weird decisions like not giving Smith PP time may be a reason he's starting to become safer defensively, and not throwing Tatar into the top 6 could be a way to keep his confidence and intensity up. All I know is it's working. It's just taken him a bit longer than desired to realize Bert and Cleary are done.

Also, worth noting with regards to the kids that Babcock really is enjoying himself, according to the article. I honestly believe he enjoys coaching the kids more than the vets.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Holland is the problem. Not Babcock. Should have fired and replaced him with Nill while we had the chance.

 

[Winger98]

Absolutely. I also completely disagree with the people who say he's bad with the kids. They've all played great and seem to be developing nicely. Seemingly weird decisions like not giving Smith PP time may be a reason he's starting to become safer defensively, and not throwing Tatar into the top 6 could be a way to keep his confidence and intensity up. All I know is it's working. It's just taken him a bit longer than desired to realize Bert and Cleary are done.

Tatar also works really hard when he's on the ice. I wonder if part of keeping a check on his ice time is also about just keeping the kid fresh. Not saying Tatar is out of shape or anything, just that he's been playing a very high energy game lately, and with his size and lack of experience in pacing himself a bit in the NHL, he might wear down quicker than we realize.

 

[Flowah]

Holland is the problem. Not Babcock. Should have fired and replaced him with Nill while we had the chance.

They both have problems.

It took far too long for the team to realize that Bert/Cleary were just inferior players, and the number of mediocre players signed for too long with NTC and NMC and for way too much money, blocking superior players was ridiculous.

They both lay claim to a share of the blame. Holland moreso because ultimately, the buck stops with him. He's the GM.

 

[joe89]

He's right. The best thing that could've happened long term are these injuries. What I wonder is, what would've happened without the injuries? Not a damn thing before the injuries suggested Babcock was ready to give them especially big roles on the team, or Holland being ready to make room for them. See, this is where talk gets cheap.

At this point, I'm only interested in the end result. Let's see what happens when this team gets healthy, and also what happens in the summer. Will Holland make sure to keep Sheahan on the team since he's clearly one of our 12 best forwards, or will he point to his contract status and hide behind it.

 

[RedHawkDown]

They both have problems.

It took far too long for the team to realize that Bert/Cleary were just inferior players, and the number of mediocre players signed for too long with NTC and NMC and for way too much money, blocking superior players was ridiculous.

They both lay claim to a share of the blame. Holland moreso because ultimately, the buck stops with him. He's the GM.

I blame Holland a lot more because Babcock is at least starting to realize his mistakes and is giving the kids a big role. Holland, from all indications in interviews and with the way he's managed the roster, still has his head stuck up his ***. Sure he waived Samuelsson but he clearly said that if Babcock had scratched a kid, he would have sent them down. Looks like to me that Babcock is the one that wanted Sammy gone, not Holland.

Holland is done in this league. He's way too timid to do anything in the post-cap era. Just think, we could have had Bogosian if he wasn't too scared to trade Kindl...that would solve so much of our PMD problems on the backend.

Kronwall-Smith
Ericsson-Bogosian
DeKeyser-Marchenko

Would be an infinitely better D corps than what we have now.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I blame Holland a lot more because Babcock is at least starting to realize his mistakes and is giving the kids a big role. Holland, from all indications in interviews and with the way he's managed the roster, still has his head stuck up his ***. Sure he waived Samuelsson but he clearly said that if Babcock had scratched a kid, he would have sent them down. Looks like to me that Babcock is the one that wanted Sammy gone, not Holland.

Holland is done in this league. He's way too timid to do anything in the post-cap era. Just think, we could have had Bogosian if he wasn't too scared to trade Kindl...that would solve so much of our PMD problems on the backend.

Kronwall-Smith
Ericsson-Bogosian
DeKeyser-Marchenko

Would be an infinitely better D corps than what we have now.

What makes you think we could get Bogosian for Kindl, and what makes you think he'd be an improvement? He's been awful for a while now. Quincey was a panic trade but Holland hasn't been able to do a lot. Not many great options. It was Suter, and Dekeyser. 50% success rate. As long as he lets Q go, moves Kindl and goes after an upgrade via trade/FA or plan B, goes with AA/Marchenko/Oullet I'm happy.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

I blame Holland a lot more because Babcock is at least starting to realize his mistakes and is giving the kids a big role. Holland, from all indications in interviews and with the way he's managed the roster, still has his head stuck up his ***. Sure he waived Samuelsson but he clearly said that if Babcock had scratched a kid, he would have sent them down. Looks like to me that Babcock is the one that wanted Sammy gone, not Holland.

Holland is done in this league. He's way too timid to do anything in the post-cap era. Just think, we could have had Bogosian if he wasn't too scared to trade Kindl...that would solve so much of our PMD problems on the backend.

Kronwall-Smith
Ericsson-Bogosian
DeKeyser-Marchenko

Would be an infinitely better D corps than what we have now.

And we would create a nice hole in our prospect/current roster as well. It wasn't just Kindl it was "Jiri Hudler, Jonathan Ericsson or Jakub Kindl, plus a 1st". Say Holland caved and traded away Ericsson, Hudler & the 1st where are we today? We lose our #2 dman who has been better than Bogosian this year, a player we lose to UFA & we lose Ouellet & Jurco from the team since our 1st in 2011 became those 2 players. Even if we move Kindl we still lose 2 big pieces of our future for a player that is having a hard time living up his potential.

IIRC the other deal was 2 1sts+Kindl, '11 & '12 1sts, so we still lose out on Jurco+Ouellet & we don't get Quincey at the TD in 12.

Bogosian is still young but he is currently a mess in Winnipeg & the Jets fans that I know have given up on him every becoming a #1/2 dman & hope he can become a #2/3 at some point. Not only that but his offense has all but dried up as well.

I'd love for Holland to be more aggressive but there's a time & place for it and as we aren't true contenders anymore you have to pick your spots well.

 

[Frk It]

What I wonder is, what would've happened without the injuries? Not a damn thing before the injuries suggested Babcock was ready to give them especially big roles on the team, or Holland being ready to make room for them. See, this is where talk gets cheap.

I don't think you would like the answer to that question. Or any of us.

What's alarming to me is how little faith Babcock knows about these young guys.

You always hear when we bring guys like Cleary or Sammy back that "we know what we have with _____". Like the fact that we are comfortable with what we know about those guys, overrides the fact that they are useless.

And then we hear with guys like Sheahan this year that "I had no idea you could play Sheahan against anybody, but now I do".

So why does he not know about these guys in GR? Why is he lobbying to have guys like Cleary back, when there's kids that can do his job better that he doesn't know about?

Shouldn't he be more in touch with the situation?

I'm hoping this whole thing is an eye-opener for Babs and Holland, and pushes them in the right direction when we have to make decisions this summer.

 

[Datsyuk4SelkeAward]

I don't think you would like the answer to that question. Of any of us.

What's alarming to me is how little faith Babcock knows about these young guys.

You always hear when we bring guys like Cleary or Sammy back that "we know what we have with _____". Like the fact that we are comfortable with what we know about those guys, overrides the fact that they are useless.

And then we hear with guys like Sheahan this year that "I had no idea you could play Sheahan against anybody, but now I do".

So why does he not know about these guys in GR? Why is he lobbying to have guys like Cleary back, when there's kids that can do his job better that he doesn't know about?

Shouldn't he be more in touch with the situation?

I'm hoping this whole thing is an eye-opener for Babs and Holland, and pushes them in the right direction when we have to make decisions this summer.

BINGO ^

How can you not know what your kids can do for the AHL team when you are the COACH of the NHL team? Is Babcock that much out of reality with the kids in the minors? This is disturbing and alarming at the same time. It's time for Babcock and Holland to go if we see the same thing this summer that we have since Holland got lucky and drafted Z and Datsyuk.

 

[Heaton]

I don't think you would like the answer to that question. Of any of us.

What's alarming to me is how little faith Babcock knows about these young guys.

You always hear when we bring guys like Cleary or Sammy back that "we know what we have with _____". Like the fact that we are comfortable with what we know about those guys, overrides the fact that they are useless.

And then we hear with guys like Sheahan this year that "I had no idea you could play Sheahan against anybody, but now I do".

So why does he not know about these guys in GR? Why is he lobbying to have guys like Cleary back, when there's kids that can do his job better that he doesn't know about?

Shouldn't he be more in touch with the situation?

I'm hoping this whole thing is an eye-opener for Babs and Holland, and pushes them in the right direction when we have to make decisions this summer.

Because guys can be awesome in the AHL and not good in the NHL. You never have any idea if a guy can be an NHL player unless he does it consistently season after season. Obviously they need a chance first, but Cleary was proven, Bertuzzi was proven.

 

[Flowah]

BINGO ^

How can you not know what your kids can do for the AHL team when you are the COACH of the NHL team? Is Babcock that much out of reality with the kids in the minors? This is disturbing and alarming at the same time. It's time for Babcock and Holland to go if we see the same thing this summer that we have since Holland got lucky and drafted Z and Datsyuk.

He doesn't know because *he's never seen them play up.*

The AHL and NHL are different, obviously. We expect people that are good in the A to be able to translate that to the NHL, but that doesn't always happen. So Babcock, who seems like a pretty conservative guy, chooses to go with the safer play.

But maybe if we hadn't clogged up our forwards pipeline for so long and given these kids a chance every once in a while he'd have seen what they could do.

 

[jaster]

"Disturbing and alarming." Man, some of you guys are suckers for quotes. You actually believe that Babcock didn't know what he had in these kids? Seems overly naive to me. Coaches are often cryptic, and Babcock very much so. It was his way of heaping praise on the kid while also saying that now that he's actually played some NHL games, we know what we have. Before that, it was only a guess as to how he'd play in the NHL over the course of several games. No one knew how Sheahan, or any of these other kids would actually handle the transition.

You can watch a kid in the A, evaluate his skills, and project how he'll do in the NHL. But everyone handles that transition differently. Some far better, or far worse, than others. You don't know until they actually go through it.