Which team has the best centre spine right now?

[jimmyemery]

Well I just said i don't believe he's an elite yet. He's just below that level.

He says he isn't playing hurt but he looks like it to me. I honestly think the secondary scoring has changed him. He doesn't carry the team on the back anymore and for that I think his intensity has dropped a level.

Saying that his clutch goal vs tampa was hopefully the monkey off his back.

I actually just seen that said he wasn't elite. Ha.
The fact that he used to carry your teams offense tells me he was elite, the only thing that would change that for me is his injury, he wasn't the same after he came back, from what I seen.
He's still a great center, but he used to dominate every time I watched him...
Maybe the knees bothering him.

 

[jimmyemery]

Pens have elite 1C & 2C + underrated very good 2way Sutter as 3C... so Pittsburgh/thread.

The only problem with Crosby is he's really easy to get off his game.
If he was a better leader id agree with you one hundred percent, but he's not. The example he sets for his team is not good, which is why you have so many problems in the playoffs in my opinion.
Once he's off his game he starts being dumb, taking cheapshots and that echoes down through the line up. No self respecting captain let's his team play like they do, which is why I'd take toews over Crosby every day of the week.

Last year Glendenning got under Crosby's skin and Crosby starts whining to officials, taking cheap shots at whoever he could, then Neal goes out of his way to cross check Glendenning in the head... if your captain gets shutdown and throws a hissy fit because of a fourth liner, the rest of your team will follow suit.

 

[carparkno1]

I actually just seen that said he wasn't elite. Ha.
The fact that he used to carry your teams offense tells me he was elite, the only thing that would change that for me is his injury, he wasn't the same after he came back, from what I seen.
He's still a great center, but he used to dominate every time I watched him...
Maybe the knees bothering him.

Maybe the knee or the change of team direction or something else is bothering him but I still don't think he is or was elite. He's absolutely two ticks away from being one of the true greats but he has a couple of issues he needs to address.

First, he is a very poor defensive guy. His back checking is poor or non existent.

Second he takes bad penalties at bad times

Third his shooting is not quite what it could be.

On the positive his skating has improved dramatically, he's toughened up, his vision is astonishing and his pick control is outrageous. He's still very young as well.

I love tavares, I just want to see him become the leader we know he is but within a team of skilled guys rather than just doing it all himself and not learning to share the load. If he gets hot this year with okposo then they can legitimately claim to being the best offensive team in hockey. We've done it all so far without those two even remotely catching fire in truth.

 

[Penguinator]

The only problem with Crosby is he's really easy to get off his game.
If he was a better leader id agree with you one hundred percent, but he's not. The example he sets for his team is not good, which is why you have so many problems in the playoffs in my opinion.
Once he's off his game he starts being dumb, taking cheapshots and that echoes down through the line up. No self respecting captain let's his team play like they do, which is why I'd take toews over Crosby every day of the week.

Last year Glendenning got under Crosby's skin and Crosby starts whining to officials, taking cheap shots at whoever he could, then Neal goes out of his way to cross check Glendenning in the head... if your captain gets shutdown and throws a hissy fit because of a fourth liner, the rest of your team will follow suit.

Ok but Crosby was subjected to multiple cheap shots last playoffs & how the hell was he supposed to honour his playoffs record with a major ****ed-up wrist?

Thus the frustration.

...and may i remind you that 'trash talking' Gretzky was a master refs manipulator when he thought he or his team was being wronged.

 

[jimmyemery]

Ok but Crosby was subjected to multiple cheap shots last playoffs & how the hell was he supposed to honour his playoffs record with a major ****ed-up wrist?

Thus the frustration.

...and may i remind you that 'trash talking' Gretzky was a master refs manipulator when he thought he or his team was being wronged.

You'd be hard pressed to find a player in the playoffs who doesn't have a somewhat serious injury they're playing through, but I see what you're saying.
And Crosby gets so many cheap shots because people know it'll take him off his game, if you're in the playoffs against Crosby in the first round you're a 7or 8 seed so they'll take the couple penalties because it basically turns Crosby ineffective.

And Gretzky earned that respect, he also went about it in a much different way. Crosby starts acting like an entitled kid who didn't get the right color Porsche.
Generational talent, horrid attitude.

 

[Penguinator]

You'd be hard pressed to find a player in the playoffs who doesn't have a somewhat serious injury they're playing through, but I see what you're saying.
And Crosby gets so many cheap shots because people know it'll take him off his game, if you're in the playoffs against Crosby in the first round you're a 7or 8 seed so they'll take the couple penalties because it basically turns Crosby ineffective.

And Gretzky earned that respect, he also went about it in a much different way. Crosby starts acting like an entitled kid who didn't get the right color Porsche.
Generational talent, horrid attitude.

Gretzky was never subjected to as many cheap shots as Lemieux or Crosby have seen. I'll always remember Hatcher's welcome to NHL teeth removing stick cheapshot to 87.

Also, Gretzky had better 'protection' (read: intimidation followed by cheap shot retaliation and we'll get away with it).

 

[jimmyemery]

Maybe the knee or the change of team direction or something else is bothering him but I still don't think he is or was elite. He's absolutely two ticks away from being one of the true greats but he has a couple of issues he needs to address.

First, he is a very poor defensive guy. His back checking is poor or non existent.

Second he takes bad penalties at bad times

Third his shooting is not quite what it could be.

On the positive his skating has improved dramatically, he's toughened up, his vision is astonishing and his pick control is outrageous. He's still very young as well.

I love tavares, I just want to see him become the leader we know he is but within a team of skilled guys rather than just doing it all himself and not learning to share the load. If he gets hot this year with okposo then they can legitimately claim to being the best offensive team in hockey. We've done it all so far without those two even remotely catching fire in truth.

Is his defense that bad?
and yeah, he and okposo have some awesome chemistry..
There's no denying that, but there's the Christmas break and the all star break coming up so hell have time to rest up and if he is injured hopefully get himself right.
I've never seen his leadership questioned as much as i have lately, but hell get there. I have problems with almost all the kids who got the c just because they were head and shoulders the best player on their team. Crosby, Ovi, tavares, not to mention those who got the A too soon. They need to learn from someone who genuinely knows what it takes to be an effective leader. Boston's doing it right, and not to sound like a homer again but Detroit molds their kids to be captains.

Its a lot to put on someone that young, the only one I can think of who excelled at it right away is toews. He just gets it, but even he has moments where he seems overwhelmed.
Tavares will get it Eventually, but who does he have to learn from...

 

[jimmyemery]

Gretzky was never subjected to as many cheap shots as Lemieux or Crosby have seen. I'll always remember Hatcher's welcome to NHL teeth removing stick cheapshot to 87.

Also, Gretzky had better 'protection' (read: intimidation followed by cheap shot retaliation and we'll get away with it).

Gretzky also didn't cheap shot people as much, Crosby is pretty dirty himself which makes it a lot likely people will go after him.
And he used to have protection, you retaliate his cheap shots and you have people like tanner glass coming out to try to end your career.
Players don't respect that.
Nor should they.
The pens are trying to get away from the dirty stuff though, so eventually it'll sort itself out if Crosby understands that he has to control himself it'll happen less frequently. But he's just as guilty as the opposition when it comes to cheap shots.

 

[carparkno1]

Is his defense that bad?
and yeah, he and okposo have some awesome chemistry..
There's no denying that, but there's the Christmas break and the all star break coming up so hell have time to rest up and if he is injured hopefully get himself right.
I've never seen his leadership questioned as much as i have lately, but hell get there. I have problems with almost all the kids who got the c just because they were head and shoulders the best player on their team. Crosby, Ovi, tavares, not to mention those who got the A too soon. They need to learn from someone who genuinely knows what it takes to be an effective leader. Boston's doing it right, and not to sound like a homer again but Detroit molds their kids to be captains.

Its a lot to put on someone that young, the only one I can think of who excelled at it right away is toews. He just gets it, but even he has moments where he seems overwhelmed.
Tavares will get it Eventually, but who does he have to learn from...

For me, Frans Nielsen is the captain of the islanders. He's been there since Milbury, plays a two way game that should be written into every hockey textbook, has immense skill and is humble with it.

You're right about tavares and okposo, their chemistry has been wonderful, especially when Vanek lined up with them for half a season. That truly showed just what each of them brings to the party.

Like you I hope he hits the reset button during the break and comes back better for it. I think possibly he over trained to get fit again after the knee injury and it's hurting him now. He's fit but he isn't the same John. Still close to a ppg incredibly which I guess reflects his natural talent.

 

[jimmyemery]

For me, Frans Nielsen is the captain of the islanders. He's been there since Milbury, plays a two way game that should be written into every hockey textbook, has immense skill and is humble with it.

You're right about tavares and okposo, their chemistry has been wonderful, especially when Vanek lined up with them for half a season. That truly showed just what each of them brings to the party.

Like you I hope he hits the reset button during the break and comes back better for it. I think possibly he over trained to get fit again after the knee injury and it's hurting him now. He's fit but he isn't the same John. Still close to a ppg incredibly which I guess reflects his natural talent.

Yeah but if he didn't over work himself he probably wouldve lost a step after the surgery.
And two way hockey is the right way but it stifles offensive production quite a bit.

And his production given his injury/situation is where I get my inclination to label him elite.
I was actually under the impression he was more of a two way player than he apparently is, which would explain his stats.
How bad is it, like ovi controller disconnect, or more middle of the pack.
Cuz from what I've seen he isn't a glaring liability.

 

[carparkno1]

Yeah but if he didn't over work himself he probably wouldve lost a step after the surgery.
And two way hockey is the right way but it stifles offensive production quite a bit.

And his production given his injury/situation is where I get my inclination to label him elite.
I was actually under the impression he was more of a two way player than he apparently is, which would explain his stats.
How bad is it, like ovi controller disconnect, or more middle of the pack.
Cuz from what I've seen he isn't a glaring liability.

Lol he's not ovi controller disconnect but honestly he isn't that far off. When it was all about tavares I could understand
he would be exhausted carrying the scoring and didn't expect much else from him.

Now he has serious support on the scoring front so I would like to see him do more going backwards. If the scoring touch isn't there then don't try and force it. Instead try and apply yourself to help the team in other ways. That's a coaching thing he could be taught but our coach isn't that smart.

He'll come good. He's elite or borderline elite and a hell of a talent.

 

[1865]

We're not the best but Giroux, Couturier and Laughton is going to be goooood going forward.

 

[GTislanders]

I'd take Tampa's center spine over NYI's any day of the week, 1st through 4th they re just flat out better than the Isles at center...Come to think of it, they're flat out better in every department. Center, Wing, D & Goalie. The Isles do have a better backup goalie then TB, I'll give you that.

Isles win in a series vs tampa bank on it. Better goalie and better defense and depth and thats hilarious considering it was our centers that led us to taking the last two games k thankssssss

 

[wingnutks]

I'd take Tampa's center spine over NYI's any day of the week, 1st through 4th they re just flat out better than the Isles at center...Come to think of it, they're flat out better in every department. Center, Wing, D & Goalie. The Isles do have a better backup goalie then TB, I'll give you that.

Ryan Strome has a better pt/60 and GF% than any Center on the Lightning.

Filppula's GF 5v5 close is 35% and his points/60 is 1

Strome's GF% 5v5 close is 75% and his points/60 is 3

Strome and Johnson are very close.

 

[RoseTintedVisor]

Best seems very argumentative. As an Isles fan, I see us somewhere between 4-8.

Pittsburgh, by virtue of having two of the best players in the world, is #1.

Who is THE WORST center grouping in the NHL? Jersey?

 

[wingnutks]

Actually after looking at stats, Ryan Strome is having one of the best seasons out of any 2c or 3c in the league.

While we are at it.
Cizikas GF% 64 Points/60 1.10 FF% 55 9pts and a +4
Goc GF% 38 Points/60 .43 FF% 49 3pts and a -1

And Cizikas is relied on more than Goc

 

[startainfection*]

I'd take Tampa's center spine over NYI's any day of the week, 1st through 4th they re just flat out better than the Isles at center...Come to think of it, they're flat out better in every department. Center, Wing, D & Goalie. The Isles do have a better backup goalie then TB, I'll give you that.

So much better that they were held to 9 shots through 2 periods? And then couldn't hold a 1 0 lead for like 10 minutes?

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Actually after looking at stats, Ryan Strome is having one of the best seasons out of any 2c or 3c in the league.

While we are at it.
Cizikas GF% 64 Points/60 1.10 FF% 55 9pts and a +4
Goc GF% 38 Points/60 .43 FF% 49 3pts and a -1

And Cizikas is relied on more than Goc

Come back to me when he has Adams on his line. Adams is a net negative for the Pens. His iron streak ending may now let him be healthy scratched.

 

[Teemu Salami]

Best seems very argumentative. As an Isles fan, I see us somewhere between 4-8.

Pittsburgh, by virtue of having two of the best players in the world, is #1.

Who is THE WORST center grouping in the NHL? Jersey?

Maybe Edmonton

 

[wingnutks]

Come back to me when he has Adams on his line. Adams is a net negative for the Pens. His iron streak ending may now let him be healthy scratched.

Strome or Cizikas?

 

[THall4]

As others have mentioned.

Pittsburgh AINEC

Their top 2 centers are top 3 players on the planet. Hard to compete against that.

Although the LA Kings have solid C depth.

 

[Fear]

Other than Penguins and Kings, shout out to Boston.

Krejci - Bergeron - Soderberg

Each guy plays a very different game but they all do it very well. Soderberg underrated

 

[startainfection*]

It is kings above everyone else mike Richards and jarret stool as the 3 and 4 line centers could be a middle of the pack teams top 2 centers

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Strome or Cizikas?

Cizikas.

 

[wingnutks]

Cizikas.

LOL. Cizikas numbers are WAY better than Goc and they rely of Casey to play more minutes. Matt Martin is probably the reason Casey's numbers are so good