Which team comes out looking the best after CAR-MTL offer sheet and subsequent trade?

[Cardiac Jerks]

I guess each team could legitimately claim that thay got what they wanted.

IMO I think this is going to turn out really ugly for Carolina and they will end up overpaying KK again in a few months just to save face.

I doesn't make sense to say they wanted KK for the long-term but they actually can't force him to stay for more than a season. The player holds all the cards now and he can hold the Canes hostage as much as he wants.

The same ownership/management that doesn’t give a shit what anyone thinks and has shown to have no problem walking away from a good player or trading them for a low return simply to be rid of them are now going to overpay to sign a disappointing Kotkaniemi just to save face?

Not sure I see it.

 

[GreenLine]

From a trade perspective, Carolina sending 1st + 3rd would be good value IF Kotkaniemi wasn't overpaid. They effectively destroyed trade value with that contract. Carolina looks bad by creating a lose-lose situation seemingly out of spite.

For Montreal, the perception is that they failed to develop yet another high draft pick and were forced to sell low. Montreal looks bad yet again this off-season.

Arizona looks good only in the sense that they have a clear direction (tanking) and they're fully committing to their plan. It's still a complete garbage dump of an organization, but the garbage dump is smelling a bit less these days.

I voted Arizona.

 

[haveandare]

Depends if Carolina can re-sign him at a far lower number. If so, probably worth a first and third after a little growth. If not, that’s a steep price to pay for the privilege of drastically overpaying a young player and spiting another team.

 

[Theodore450]

Very happy with the turnout as a Habs fan. Our 2C is signed reasonably long term in his prime, we leave the real money for Suzuki. We can still add mid season additions like maybe Hertl or a Dman and we add a another pick in the lottery by having 2 teams that could both miss. Best scenario Canes pick top 10 and we make a run.

Seriously can’t complain this is the best scenario. Dvorak will be better for the team than danault. Kk production can be replaced and hopefully the PP improves. Not sold on our D yet but the C looks a lot better than it did 2 months ago

 

[StreetHawk]

For this season I think Montreal is better having Dvorak over KK.

Main wildcard is KK’s next contract.

he would need to put up 50 points to be worth his QO.

but if he agrees to a pay cut with Carolina then the advantage can switch to Carolina depending on how he develops. If he’s never a 50 point guy during his rfa years I give the advantage to Montreal. If he does then Carolina wins.

Dvorak is signed for 4 more season which is the amount of RFA years that KK has so that would be a push if KK really didn’t want to remain in Montreal long term.

 

[krutovsdonut]

the clear winner for now is az. they sold high on an asset they wanted to move.

canes paid a high price for a young asset they targeted with upside.

habs paid a higher price for an asset they only grabbed as a fallback who, based on age alone, has less upside.

odds favour montreal losing this one.

 

[StreetHawk]

the clear winner for now is az. they sold high on an asset they wanted to move.

canes paid a high price for a young asset they targeted with upside.

habs paid a higher price for an asset they only grabbed as a fallback who, based on age alone, has less upside.

odds favour montreal losing this one.

KK’s next contract is probably going to be the deciding factor here. He wasn’t going to take less willingly with Montreal on the next contract. Probably will with Carolina. That’s a big factor in all this.

 

[Don Keedix]

the clear winner for now is az. they sold high on an asset they wanted to move.

canes paid a high price for a young asset they targeted with upside.

habs paid a higher price for an asset they only grabbed as a fallback who, based on age alone, has less upside.

odds favour montreal losing this one.

Weird. I have Arizona as the big loser in this trader. You lose a proven 2C for a mid to late 1st round pick that may never pan out. When I saw the trade, I was wondering if this was payback for taking John Scott

 

[Theodore450]

Weird. I have Arizona as the big loser in this trader. You lose a proven 2C for a mid to late 1st round pick that may never pan out. When I saw the trade, I was wondering if this was payback for taking John Scott

Same, I don’t get the move either. Buffalo scorched rebuilds are dumb

 

[Pyrophorus]

If he does fit in, consistently scores at 40pt or more pace and signs long-term for an aav less than $6.1M, then the Canes should be very happy.

Be careful, he's never done this.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Montreal got a much better player for next season for less money but the only real winner is JK who will get triple his normal pay for the upcoming season

Somewhat....not much, and going to another team, which doesn't score much.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Weird. I have Arizona as the big loser in this trader. You lose a proven 2C for a mid to late 1st round pick that may never pan out. When I saw the trade, I was wondering if this was payback for taking John Scott

even if i accepted dvorak was a proven 2c, az is not interested in winning hockey games just now so they have no use for one. they obtained the best market value they could. that is a win for them.

it is also a balance sheet win for them. they reduced overhead and added an asset that costs them nothing for a couple of years, and then close to league minimum for three years.

i think it is also a win on team resale value. arizona's motley lineup was not worth anything to a buyer. that same lineup converted into a bushel of draft picks starts to look quite attractive to a potential owner trying to greenfield a new team in a new market. even if az stays in az, they need sale options to leverage a deal for a new arena.

 

[DeysArena]

If either Carolina or Montreal misses the playoffs, the Coyotes will be the clear winner.

 

[Stuzchuk]

Both Canes and Habs lose. The offersheet is just stupid.

who knows... they can have an extension in place already for KK on Jan. 1st...?

 

[ottomaddox]

The real loser on the day is Arizona, and the NHL.


I'm looking at their roster thinking: "I guess you can call that a team".

It doesn't matter though. Another team will pluck players for draft picks, or someone will come along and do a salary dump trade.

It's a pro hockey wasteland...

 

[StreetHawk]

The real loser on the day is Arizona, and the NHL.


I'm looking at their roster thinking: "I guess you can call that a team".

It doesn't matter though. Another team will pluck players for draft picks, or someone will come along and do a salary dump trade.

It's a pro hockey wasteland...

It’s any STH for AZ. And why would you want to be one for this upcoming season anyways?

 

[DeysArena]

I'm looking at their roster thinking: "I guess you can call that a team".

It is a perfectly good AHL team.

 

[Stephen]

Montreal came out the worst. If you rewind to the 2018 draft, the whole point of Montreal making the reach pick for Kotkaniemi was the gambit they were drafting an Anze Kopitar franchise center ahead of better prospects at the time like Tkachuk, Q. Hughes and Zadina. Obviously that was a risky move in its own right but the way they brought along this project center was not ideal and the whole project came to an end because of external pressures. I also don't think Montreal would have envisioned turning a third overall pick into Christian Dvorak in 3 seasons time either.

Carolina gets their man and the price isn't that high. I think we have to wait and see what the extension dollars look like in relation to KK's growth as a player to award them with a W or L. Going back to the original Kopitar comment, if KK turns into a first line center during the course of a reasonable extension, that's a win.

Arizona gets good value for a young-ish asset who has a decent two way game.

 

[Dread Clawz]

Well Carolina improved the most. Arizona should(if they scout well) have an impressive base of prospects in a few years, and 2022 is the year to have a plethora of top 60 picks, but man are they gonna be bad for a few years too.

 

[CartographerNo611]

MTL. Got good value for JK and and got a decent 2nd line center with it. Winner.

AZ got draft picks I guess.

Carolina overpaid for a 3rd line center whose walking the bust tight rope. He is still young and can prove me wrong… Carolina is the clear loser as of today.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

We won't know the answer for potentially several years. It all hinges on how Kotkaniemi develops. If what he is today more or less stays the same, it's a clear loss for Carolina. If he becomes a legitimate second line center putting up 50 points, it's a loss for Montreal. Hell, Kotkaniemi could always refuse to sign with Carolina which would make them look incompetent.

Kotkaniemi next contract is another factor here too. He could always refuse to sign with Carolina which would make them look incompetent.

Right now, Carolina "overpaid" for a questionable third line center with weak skating and minimal flexibility. But he's 21 and could very easily mature his game and be a steal. That's all we can really assess at the moment.

 

[KingsFan7824]

So from now on McDavid will be known as MD. Crosby, CB. Makar, MK.

Who the hell came up with KK for Jesperi Kotkaniemi?

 

[Charlie Conway]

I think the Canes win this pretty handily.

1st+3rd for an under-performing 21 y/o that could take a big step in the Canes system? It's a win, especially if they sign up long-term to a deal more in line with his production. If he's awful or they don't want to sign him to a big deal, they walk away for what would likely have been a later pick anyway. Teams pay more for rentals.

If you want to add all the pieces up for the Canadiens, they basically lost Kotka and a 2nd and gained Dvorak and a 3rd. I'd be hoping that Caufield and Suzuki can pick up where they left off and take a next step. Otherwise, center depth is rough with Danault gone.

 

[Halakitlikethat]

Montreal looks bad in a sense that they flubbed a top 3 pick big time, all things considering I am ok with Dvorak over Kk considering the contract and QO for kk .

Carolina giving assets to grossly overpay for a guy that had back to back seasons of 8 and 20 points is strange to me . Atleast their social media team got to make some digs!

Arizona got good value on Dvorak, let’s see what they can turn those picks into . I’ll say they are the winner.

 

[Yog S'loth]

Not sure who won between Montreal and Carolina, but I scratch my head at Arizona.

Sure, they have 8 first and second round picks next year now, but... who's actually gonna play hockey for them this year?

Or next year, given they have 12 UFAs on their major-league roster at the end of the season?

Or, I mean, for that matter, will they even exist after this season, I suppose...