Which prospect(s) are you not as high on?

jd2210

Registered Non User
Jul 24, 2009
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Great White North
NAK for sure jumps out right away. I'd love to be wrong though

Kase. I certainly havent seen him do anything worthy of being above Vecchione or Leier, and the Chec program is in the gutter so I'm worried they ruined him. Once again I hope I'm wrong. This year will be a big indicator of his progress.

I like Sanheim just fine and he is in my top 5 for sure but I'm way less excited about him as I am Meyers in the long term and I think I'm one of the few who thinks that based on voting.
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
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Watching him it is clear to me he is bad in the offensive zone and good in the neutral zone and pretty good in the defensive zone especially along the boards. That said, there is non definitive evidence supporting my contention that he will drag down the corsi of his partners. See link below.

https://www.broadstreethockey.com/2...25-under-25-prospects-analysis-lehigh-valley-

That article just talks about goals. There are no public possession stats for the AHL.
 

briererocks

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
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That article just talks about goals. There are no public possession stats for the AHL.

True. But gf is a decent proxy of corsi and it aligns with my eye test. He is a big drag on his partner in the offensive zone.

His relative gf is -5.7 versus Hagg's +2.9. It is not definitive at all but it does offer some credence to my belief that Morin will be a drag on his d partner.
 

briererocks

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
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+/- isn't a good proxy for Corsi.

If he is a #4 he should be destroying the competition at the ahl level. I don't see how those stats are not problematic. I hope I am wrong but he wasn't drafted by us we would not be so high on him. To.me, he is another intangibles player in the mold of luke schen who is not that good.
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
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You simply can't judge how good a defensman will be in the NHL by their AHL +/-.
 

briererocks

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
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You simply can't judge how good a defensman will be in the NHL by their AHL +/-.

He was on a good team partnered with a talented partner, his +/- should have been better. It could be an outlier or non significant but it is in harmony of my view of him.
 

Dumpster Flyers

Registered User
Jun 21, 2006
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Samuel Morin. I hate the stupid way he plays and think he'll top out as a 3rd pair D (and that's only if/when he proves he can kill penalties). I'm overall less enthusiastic about prospects than most on these boards, but if I had to single out one prospect I don't believe in, it would be him.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,883
86,279
Nova Scotia
PHP:
Same boat. I think he'll bring sound defensive play and grit (which has excellent value), but I haven't seen anything to suggest he's going to put up more then 15 or so points in his average season.

Coburn had less than 20 points in most of his years with Philly and played in a top 4 role without issue.

Morin and its not even close.

Will he replace Couts on your hatred list? That's the real question.

:laugh:

Morin might only be a bottom pairing Dman...because he have built up a good D prospect base and could be icing 3 good pairings soon.

Provy Myers
Sanheim Gudas
Morin Ghost

I don't care what labels our guys eventually get. I just want them to be good. Morin and his strengths will be a good balance to Ghost and his weaknesses...and visa versa.
 

FLYguy3911

Sanheim Lover
Oct 19, 2006
53,258
86,767
The Phantoms were good because they were top 5 in PP and PK.
Yes. They were a middle of the pack team 5v5.
Watching him it is clear to me he is bad in the offensive zone and good in the neutral zone and pretty good in the defensive zone especially along the boards.
If that is your reasoning, that is fair, but when I see things like 'he'll drag down the Corsi of his partner' it just sounds like people already have their minds made up about him. It's just an odd statement. Corsi is a flawed metric for obvious reasons, but the one thing Corsi does is it makes you evaluate things you might not otherwise. The good possession payers who have obvious puck skills are easy to spot, but it's the guys who aren't as noticeable that make you think. Radko Gudas is a perfect example. Great possession player. Most people think it's because he's some stay at home defenseman who's great defensively, but that's not really the reason.

You're on record that you think Morin is good in 2 out of the 3 zones. You can be a good possession player even if you aren't a good offensive player- or at the very least not 'drag your partner's Corsi down'. And as a defenseman, since forwards generate most of the shots anyway, if you are strong in the DZ and NZ you can survive. You can make a case that he'll always be somewhat dependent on his partner, but that doesn't mean he'll be AMac. Morin does have some unique skills that can contribute to being a positive possession player.
If he is a #4 he should be destroying the competition at the ahl level. I don't see how those stats are not problematic. I hope I am wrong but he wasn't drafted by us we would not be so high on him. To.me, he is another intangibles player in the mold of luke schen who is not that good.
The big difference is Schenn couldn't skate. Morin can. Morin is also 6'7 which helps a lot defensively. Schenn was useless because he was overmatched physically which meant you couldn't put him out against top lines, and he didn't have the offensive chops to contribute offensively. Even if you don't think Morin is good offensively, I don't think Morin is going to be overmatched on the defensive side once he settles in.

Since Morin's name keeps coming up, I wonder if the people that mention him just haven't adjusted their own expectations. I recall an earlier discussion where I drew some parallels between Gudas and Morin and someone said they would be disappointed if Morin ended up like Gudas. That seems crazy to me. I was pretty high on Morin as a 19 year old. At that time Provorov wasn't in the system, Sanheim was a baby, Ghost blew out his knee, Myers wasn't in the system, and Gudas was in Tampa. Just looking at the names, on the left side, he's not going to play above Provorov and he's probably not going to play above Sanheim (or Ghost if he plays his natural side). So right there, he won't be a top 4 Dman. Is he a bust if that happens? If other guys are just flat out better?
 

CodyTheHuman

Registered User
Dec 31, 2014
4,302
782
California
Yes. They were a middle of the pack team 5v5.
If that is your reasoning, that is fair, but when I see things like 'he'll drag down the Corsi of his partner' it just sounds like people already have their minds made up about him. It's just an odd statement. Corsi is a flawed metric for obvious reasons, but the one thing Corsi does is it makes you evaluate things you might not otherwise. The good possession payers who have obvious puck skills are easy to spot, but it's the guys who aren't as noticeable that make you think. Radko Gudas is a perfect example. Great possession player. Most people think it's because he's some stay at home defenseman who's great defensively, but that's not really the reason.

You're on record that you think Morin is good in 2 out of the 3 zones. You can be a good possession player even if you aren't a good offensive player- or at the very least not 'drag your partner's Corsi down'. And as a defenseman, since forwards generate most of the shots anyway, if you are strong in the DZ and NZ you can survive. You can make a case that he'll always be somewhat dependent on his partner, but that doesn't mean he'll be AMac. Morin does have some unique skills that can contribute to being a positive possession player.

The big difference is Schenn couldn't skate. Morin can. Morin is also 6'7 which helps a lot defensively. Schenn was useless because he was overmatched physically which meant you couldn't put him out against top lines, and he didn't have the offensive chops to contribute offensively. Even if you don't think Morin is good offensively, I don't think Morin is going to be overmatched on the defensive side once he settles in.

Since Morin's name keeps coming up, I wonder if the people that mention him just haven't adjusted their own expectations. I recall an earlier discussion where I drew some parallels between Gudas and Morin and someone said they would be disappointed if Morin ended up like Gudas. That seems crazy to me. I was pretty high on Morin as a 19 year old. At that time Provorov wasn't in the system, Sanheim was a baby, Ghost blew out his knee, Myers wasn't in the system, and Gudas was in Tampa. Just looking at the names, on the left side, he's not going to play above Provorov and he's probably not going to play above Sanheim (or Ghost if he plays his natural side). So right there, he won't be a top 4 Dman. Is he a bust if that happens? If other guys are just flat out better?

Nope. If he ends up being a bigger version of Gudas then he was a good pick. If he ends up playing on the 3rd pair because the others are better than him that just means we have insane depth.

I'm a fan of Morin. I think he will be solid and I think people are definitely underrating his puck skills. He's no Karlsson or Burns, but he is not Luke Schenn either. A bigger Coburn or Gudas would be great to get from him.
 

Brayden Fattison

Registered User
Mar 4, 2013
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713
I'm not sure how anyone who's seen Rubtsov playing against his peers in the Q can not like his game. Whether or not he's an NHL center is still to be determined (probably not), but he definitely has NHL impact player upside.

I'll go with Hart. I like the kid, and I genuinely hope he makes it, but I'd like to see him do more in big games before I pencil him in as a lock for the big club. I have Stolarz and Sandstrom above him in my personal prospect rankings.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,813
156,009
Pennsylvania
I'd bet money that most of the people saying this watched very few, if any, AHL games.

Doesn't mean they're necessarily wrong, but most of it sounds like reputation scouting instead of first hand knowledge. Comparing him to Schenn is a perfect example of that.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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I'd be thrilled to death if Morin turned out as good as Gudas.

I think Gudas has better skill and hockey sense than Morin, though, and is also more consistently physical.
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
55,843
42,931
Samuel Morin. I hate the stupid way he plays and think he'll top out as a 3rd pair D (and that's only if/when he proves he can kill penalties).

He was one of the main components of the Phantoms 5th ranked PK, but you would know that since you watched all those AHL games last season where he was playing "stupid".
 

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