Speculation: Which one do you take if any?

[Jim Bob]

Sorry but none of Anahaim, Nashville, Pittsburg, Washington, Edmonton or St Loius have a 3C the level of Reinhart and they are still in the playoffs. Most seem to go for a gritty vet in that position. The narrative here doesn't fully match reality of what is happening in these teams. Even where these teams hve someone that can play that role they run him as winger (Draisaitl or Rakell for example). Im sorry but for me personally Reinhart doesn't excel as a winger and it has kind of shown in the last two seasons. He's expendable valuable asset. I know half the people here disagree but the other half seems to be willing to trade him if needed. Don't think trying to impose someone's opinion as more correct than others is fair when we are all using the same tools to assess the situation.

Wait, those team don't have a mediocre 3C like Reinhart?

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

I believe in Reinhart still. When O'Reilly is 30, Reinhart will be just entering his prime. When O'Reilly is slowing down and moved over to wing, Reinhart will move up to 2C from 3C and keep our center spine tough.

You are talking about some scenario that is at least 4 years away, possibly 5-6, maybe 7 - ROR is 26 and players don't slow that much down at 31... We haven't been competitive for years, I personally right now don't care that much what happens in 6 years time I'm afraid. If you do, then you are certainly more patient than I am.

Non sense.

Great facts you have given there

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Wait, those team don't have a mediocre 3C like Reinhart?

Current Playoff 3C according to dailyfacoff...Sissons, Vermette, Letestu, Hayes, Smith, Bonino (even worse with Sid out?), Lehtera, Eller

Please do tell me again how important it is to keep someone with the trade value of Reinhart as a 3C based on playoff teams set-ups. I am not going to argue anymore. I don't intend to change anyone's opinion, like some people here are trying to do. The poll shows we are 50-50 so can some of you stop pretending that only your opinion matters and is valid when there is literally 50-50 split of opinion of the fanbase? Don't think either is wrong to have their opinion, but maybe it is time you stop shooting people down who dare suggest Reinhart is key to fixing Buffalo's D issues based on his trade value.

 

[Jame]

Sorry but none of Anahaim, Nashville, Pittsburg, Washington, Edmonton or St Loius have a 3C the level of Reinhart and they are still in the playoffs. Most seem to go for a gritty vet in that position. The narrative here doesn't fully match reality of what is happening in these teams. Even where these teams hve someone that can play that role they run him as winger (Draisaitl or Rakell for example). Im sorry but for me personally Reinhart doesn't excel as a winger and it has kind of shown in the last two seasons. He's expendable valuable asset. I know half the people here disagree but the other half seems to be willing to trade him if needed. Don't think trying to impose someone's opinion as more correct than others is fair when we are all using the same tools to assess the situation.

Its 3 lines...

Pitt has had Kessel and/or Hornqvist as the driver of a 3rd line
Anaheim moved Perry to the 3rd to drive a 3rd line

It's even better if you have a center capable of driving that 3rd line.

San Jose was doing it with Hertl at center.
LA in their prime was doing it with Anze, Carter, and Mike Richards driving a 3rd line
Minny took the approach by acquiring Hanzal and adding Coyle to that line.

You need 3 lines that can score in the playoffs. Or you need a defense that is so good, it can drive offense throughout the lineup

 

[1972]

The more I think about it the more I'd rather not move Reinhart...he's not my favourite player, but I think this will be a huge year for him, and when I watch the playoffs I think that's where he will do his best.

 

[Jame]

Current Playoff 3C according to dailyfacoff...Sissons, Vermette, Letestu, Hayes, Smith, Bonino (even worse with Sid out?), Lehtera, Eller

Please do tell me again how important it is to keep someone with the trade value of Reinhart as a 3C based on playoff teams set-ups. I am not going to argue anymore. I don't intend to change anyone's opinion, like some people here are trying to do. The poll shows we are 50-50 so can some of you stop pretending that only your opinion matters and is valid when there is literally 50-50 split of opinion of the fanbase? Don't think either is wrong to have their opinion, but maybe it is time you stop shooting people down who dare suggest Reinhart is key to fixing Buffalo's D issues based on his trade value.

Pittsburgh's top 4 is
Cole-Schultz
Maatta-Daley

Please tell me why we need to trade a #2 overall pick on his ELC for a defensemen?
They acquired 3 of their 4 top 4 for peanuts

 

[Jame]

The more I think about it the more I'd rather not move Reinhart...he's not my favourite player, but I think this will be a huge year for him, and when I watch the playoffs I think that's where he will do his best.

Trading him before we see him at his natural position, being used in a way that favors his talents... would be idiotic. Especially when in a 3C structure, he'd be getting the juiciest matchups.

Teams will be focused defensively on stopping the Eichel line
ROR will still see heavy lifting shifts, along with a 4th line anchored by Larsson
Reinhart will be facing offensive secondary scoring line and 4th lines.

 

[OkimLom]

Current Playoff 3C according to dailyfacoff...Sissons, Vermette, Letestu, Hayes, Smith, Bonino (even worse with Sid out?), Lehtera, Eller

Please do tell me again how important it is to keep someone with the trade value of Reinhart as a 3C based on playoff teams set-ups. I am not going to argue anymore. I don't intend to change anyone's opinion, like some people here are trying to do. The poll shows we are 50-50 so can some of you stop pretending that only your opinion matters and is valid when there is literally 50-50 split of opinion of the fanbase? Don't think either is wrong to have their opinion, but maybe it is time you stop shooting people down who dare suggest Reinhart is key to fixing Buffalo's D issues based on his trade value.

You can get away with rolling a solid top 4, a top 4 which you can find via alternative ways besides wasting Reinhart's value so early by trading him. Reinhart can BECOME a #2 C, which IMO is his ceiling. One of the key aspects of coaching in the playoffs, is matchups. With Reinhart being a #3 or #2 C, depending on how he develops, the Sabres could potentially give teams problems much like Toronto did offensively. We have seen Reinhart play the center position, and play it well. Unfortunately, our former coach couldn't see it and was an example of the microcosm of the issues that Dan had.

As much as people think we're in trouble on the backend, I don't believe we're that far off. Kane is our best trade chip RIGHT NOW, that won't have long term complications of depth down the line. For me, it's easier to stomach any combination of wingers to fix the issue of depth of defense than it is to use a Center for trade bait.

Right now, the league is focusing on getting more offense from the backend with more offensively gifted players on defense. I think we should get ahead of the market turning to finding defensive specialists for teams. Strike now and get your shutdown "defense pairing" and to do so I think you could buy low on a defensive player and allow you the time to develop these type of defensemen. Tanev would be a great example of this, and using Reinhart for this would be overkill. Using a guy like Kane as your center piece would be close, and we have the draft picks(especially early in the rounds) to balance out, if there is any, inequalities.

Pittsburgh right now is playing with a "pedestrian" talented defense, but they have guys playing their roles well and using their forward depth and the center spine(when healthy) to overwhelm teams.

IMO, I think getting a defense looking like: Risto, Kulikov, Tanev, McCabe would be a decent start with Tanev anchoring the 2nd pair and Risto Anchoring the 1st pairing. You then focus on building that defense more through drafting while your team is in playoff contendership with the center spine of Eichel, Reinhart, ROR. With the starting defense, that is a playoff contender defense to start with. On the 3rd pairing you then have Bogo, Guhle(maybe), and/or a free agent signing with Gorges as your 7th dman. This year you draft the BDA, and continue to develop your guys.

 

[Jame]

You can get away with rolling a solid top 4, a top 4 which you can find via alternative ways besides wasting Reinhart's value so early by trading him. Reinhart can BECOME a #2 C, which IMO is his ceiling. One of the key aspects of coaching in the playoffs, is matchups. With Reinhart being a #3 or #2 C, depending on how he develops, the Sabres could potentially give teams problems much like Toronto did offensively. We have seen Reinhart play the center position, and play it well. Unfortunately, our former coach couldn't see it and was an example of the microcosm of the issues that Dan had.

As much as people think we're in trouble on the backend, I don't believe we're that far off. Kane is our best trade chip RIGHT NOW, that won't have long term complications of depth down the line. For me, it's easier to stomach any combination of wingers to fix the issue of depth of defense than it is to use a Center for trade bait.

Right now, the league is focusing on getting more offense from the backend with more offensively gifted players on defense. I think we should get ahead of the market turning to finding defensive specialists for teams. Strike now and get your shutdown "defense pairing" and to do so I think you could buy low on a defensive player and allow you the time to develop these type of defensemen. Tanev would be a great example of this, and using Reinhart for this would be overkill. Using a guy like Kane as your center piece would be close, and we have the draft picks(especially early in the rounds) to balance out, if there is any, inequalities.

Pittsburgh right now is playing with a "pedestrian" talented defense, but they have guys playing their roles well and using their forward depth and the center spine(when healthy) to overwhelm teams.

IMO, I think getting a defense looking like: Risto, Kulikov, Tanev, McCabe would be a decent start with Tanev anchoring the 2nd pair and Risto Anchoring the 1st pairing. You then focus on building that defense more through drafting while your team is in playoff contendership with the center spine of Eichel, Reinhart, ROR. With the starting defense, that is a playoff contender defense to start with. On the 3rd pairing you then have Bogo, Guhle(maybe), and/or a free agent signing with Gorges as your 7th dman. This year you draft the BDA, and continue to develop your guys.

There's another element here that's important (related to the idiocy of Bylsma).

We've seen successful teams spread their talent over 3 lines (SJ Thornton, Couture, Pavelski, Hertl, Marleau as an example), but those same coaches stack lines when down a goal in the 3rd or when the 7 game matchup makes sense (Perry back with Getzlaf).

Bylsma NEVER played ROR and Eichel together. A good coach, would put those guys together late in a game, or if a specific series/matchup dictated it. The fact that we never saw them play together in 2 years... is mind boggling.

Reinhart is a big part of that going forward. He'd still be able to anchor an offensive 2nd line, while Larsson could still anchor some checking matchups (shortening the bench when needed).

Without Reinhart... going to Eichel-ROR as a line... is difficult, or less likely.

Our regular lineup would be something like:

XXXX-ROR-Okposo
XXXX-Echel-XXXX
XXXX-Reinhart-XXXX
XXXX-Larsson-XXXX

But when the situation or series required, we could leverage in to:
XXXX-Eichel-ROR
XXXX-Reinhart-Okposo
XXXX-Larsson-XXXX

 

[OkimLom]

There's another element here that's important (related to the idiocy of Bylsma).

We've seen successful teams spread their talent over 3 lines (SJ Thornton, Couture, Pavelski, Hertl, Marleau as an example), but those same coaches stack lines when down a goal in the 3rd or when the 7 game matchup makes sense (Perry back with Getzlaf).

Bylsma NEVER played ROR and Eichel together. A good coach, would put those guys together late in a game, or if a specific series/matchup dictated it. The fact that we never saw them play together in 2 years... is mind boggling.

Reinhart is a big part of that going forward. He'd still be able to anchor an offensive 2nd line, while Larsson could still anchor some checking matchups (shortening the bench when needed).

Without Reinhart... going to Eichel-ROR as a line... is difficult, or less likely.

Our regular lineup would be something like:

XXXX-ROR-Okposo
XXXX-Echel-XXXX
XXXX-Reinhart-XXXX
XXXX-Larsson-XXXX

But when the situation or series required, we could leverage in to:
XXXX-Eichel-ROR
XXXX-Reinhart-Okposo
XXXX-Larsson-XXXX

The sad part, we did see Eichel and ROR for non-PP time when they were down 2 goals with about 2 mins left in games. He was always slow to react to changes that needed to be made, if he did make changes. Putting ROR and Eichel together should be together if down by multiple goals with about 10 mins left. Then you roll 3 lines to give Jack and Ryan and Reinhart more time out there. I remember the Nashville game that Eichel scored frm a cross ice pass by ROR. They were down 2 goals. NJ game they won a faceoff that Eichel scored on. Again, down two goals with a minute left. They were effective when they played together. But it was always too little too late. Even worse, you saw that strategy back in 2015-2016 in Eichel's rookie year. Not as much, if he did do it this past season.

 

[Jame]

The sad part, we did see Eichel and ROR for non-PP time when they were down 2 goals with about 2 mins left in games. He was always slow to react to changes that needed to be made, if he did make changes. Putting ROR and Eichel together should be together if down by multiple goals with about 10 mins left. Then you roll 3 lines to give Jack and Ryan and Reinhart more time out there. I remember the Nashville game that Eichel scored frm a cross ice pass by ROR. They were down 2 goals. NJ game they won a faceoff that Eichel scored on. Again, down two goals with a minute left. They were effective when they played together. But it was always too little too late. Even worse, you saw that strategy back in 2015-2016 in Eichel's rookie year. Not as much, if he did do it this past season.

yea, they played 70 minutes together at ES this year... which is essentially 2 minutes in every game we lost this year... lol
thanks dan

 

[Jim Bob]

Trading him before we see him at his natural position, being used in a way that favors his talents... would be idiotic. Especially when in a 3C structure, he'd be getting the juiciest matchups.

Teams will be focused defensively on stopping the Eichel line
ROR will still see heavy lifting shifts, along with a 4th line anchored by Larsson
Reinhart will be facing offensive secondary scoring line and 4th lines.

Reinhart and Nylander on the 3rd line could feast on easy matchups like Roy & Vanek did playing behind the Co-Caps.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Reinhart and Nylander on the 3rd line could feast on easy matchups like Roy & Vanek did playing behind the Co-Caps.

If our new coach doesn't try this next season, I quit

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

As much as people think we're in trouble on the backend, I don't believe we're that far off. Kane is our best trade chip RIGHT NOW, that won't have long term complications of depth down the line. For me, it's easier to stomach any combination of wingers to fix the issue of depth of defense than it is to use a Center for trade bait.

I find it amusing that people think Kane who has injury issues often, off-ice issues often and is 1 year away from UFA has remotely close the trade value to bring you an a good D as a centerpiece of the trade, when freaking Taylor Hall lands you Larsson just 1 year ago Don't want to call anyone delusional, but this is clearly delusional statement. You are not getting a good D unless you trade away both Kane+8OA+another pick/prospect or Nylander+8OA (I do not want to do that at all as it will deplete the talent pipeline badly and we will need ELC players soon) or Reinhart. If you want to deny that, feel free to live in ignorance for yourself, but in the real world this is likely the case.

.... Also the statements about Pitt's D corp...come on, the only reason Pitt are not out is because Washington and Holtby specifically are clearly playoff chockers (even though I'm still rooting for them) and Fleury is doing some miracles on ice to keep Pittsburgh on top. Not that much to do with Pitt as much as it has to do with Washington's incompetence to rally the troops in the playoffs (they nearly chocked versus rookie-filled Toronto...). If you actually are confident in our D, OK you have the right to Jame, but I don't agree with you and I don't want us to be a Risto injury away from having an absolute garbage blueline in the playoffs 2 years from now.

 

[Jame]

Reinhart and Nylander on the 3rd line could feast on easy matchups like Roy & Vanek did playing behind the Co-Caps.

yea, with a big body that can skate and do some dirty work....

Kane-Eichel-Ennis - Score more than you get scored on
Carrier-ROR-Okposo - Control play
Nylander-Reinhart-Fasching - Dominate your matchups
Foligno-Larsson-Girgensons - secondary shutdown role

McCabe-Risto
XXXX-Bogo
Guhle-Antipin
x Falk

Gorges gets taken in expansion, with additional payment.

maybe we should just go in to the season... with a competent coach, and see what we have

 

[enthusiast]

Hanifin seems both fair and the most useful for the future. Strength for weakness.

 

[Jame]

I find it amusing that people think Kane who has injury issues often, off-ice issues often and is 1 year away from UFA has remotely close the trade value to bring you an a good D as a centerpiece of the trade, when freaking Taylor Hall lands you Larsson just 1 year ago Don't want to call anyone delusional, but this is clearly delusional statement. You are not getting a good D unless you trade away both Kane+8OA+another pick/prospect or Nylander+8OA (I do not want to do that at all as it will deplete the talent pipeline badly and we will need ELC players soon) or Reinhart. If you want to deny that, feel free to live in ignorance for yourself, but in the real world this is likely the case.

.... Also the statements about Pitt's D corp...come on, the only reason Pitt are not out is because Washington and Holtby specifically are clearly playoff chockers (even though I'm still rooting for them) and Fleury is doing some miracles on ice to keep Pittsburgh on top. Not that much to do with Pitt as much as it has to do with Washington's incompetence to rally the troops in the playoffs (they nearly chocked versus rookie-filled Toronto...).

yea, that's the only reason the defending cup champs aren't out...

Would you agree that Justin Schultz has been a very good and impactful acquisition for Pittsburgh the last 2 years?

He was acquired for a 3rd round pick

Ian Cole has been playing 20 minutes a game all season on one of the best teams in the league. He was acquired for Roberto Botuzzo and a 7th round pick

Trading Reinhart to fix our blueline... is overreaction. We had a **** for brains coach, and therefor we need to re-assess what we already have FIRST.

If you actually are confident in our D, OK you have the right to Jame, but I don't agree with you and I don't want us to be a Risto injury away from having an absolute garbage blueline in the playoffs 2 years from now.

So we've got some time to solve the problem, and don't need to panic and trade a piece that was drafted to be a cornerstone piece of the rebuild just 3 years ago.

 

[Jame]

Hanifin seems both fair and the most useful for the future. Strength for weakness.

Inside a Dan Bylsma vacuum.

 

[Jim Bob]

yea, with a big body that can skate and do some dirty work....

Kane-Eichel-Ennis - Score more than you get scored on
Carrier-ROR-Okposo - Control play
Nylander-Reinhart-Fasching - Dominate your matchups
Foligno-Larsson-Girgensons - secondary shutdown role

McCabe-Risto
XXXX-Bogo
Guhle-Antipin
x Falk

Gorges gets taken in expansion, with additional payment.

maybe we should just go in to the season... with a competent coach, and see what we have

That is way too obvious to happen.

 

[Myllz]

Trading Reinhart to fix our blueline... is overreaction. We had a **** for brains coach, and therefor we need to re-assess what we already have FIRST.

That's essentially where I'm at, which is why I'm not hugely concerned if sweeping moves aren't made this off-season. I said pretty much all year the roster is better than what they showed.

 

[Jame]

That's essentially where I'm at, which is why I'm not hugely concerned if sweeping moves aren't made this off-season. I said pretty much all year the roster is better than what they showed.

Yea, Murray's firing was all about culture, personality, etc... a major roster shakeup isn't needed. Add a defensemen or 2... there's plenty of Ian Cole's and Justin Schultz's out there.

Let's see what the roster Murray built can do... with a competent head coach/system.

 

[Gabrielor]

yea, with a big body that can skate and do some dirty work....

Kane-Eichel-Ennis - Score more than you get scored on
Carrier-ROR-Okposo - Control play
Nylander-Reinhart-Fasching - Dominate your matchups
Foligno-Larsson-Girgensons - secondary shutdown role

McCabe-Risto
XXXX-Bogo
Guhle-Antipin
x Falk

Gorges gets taken in expansion, with additional payment.

maybe we should just go in to the season... with a competent coach, and see what we have

Like line 2
Love line 3
Like line 4

HATE line 1

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

So we've got some time to solve the problem, and don't need to panic and trade a piece that was drafted to be a cornerstone piece of the rebuild just 3 years ago.

I simply think we restock to replace Sam's loss quicker than the loss of not having Hanifin on the team. Scorers develop quicker than D. We have fair amount of B level prospects, Nylander and potentially good F at 8OA if you trade for Hanifin. We only really have Guhle as D prospect. Of course you pick D at 8OA if you don't make the trade, but that pick is likely 3 years away from making top4 impact if he ever turns into NHL D.

Again, you have the right to your opinion, but clearly both options have pluses and minuses and the margin is very small on which is the right decision (which only our new GM can make soon).

As I said in the original poll added you rely on UFA, prospect or (alternatively) cheap to acquire D to develop. It is an option for clearly half the fanbase and I am not going to put down anyone that likes that option. My worry is that people in that group put down people like me that are willing to make that trade when that's clearly a bit unfair.

 

[Jame]

Like line 2
Love line 3
Like line 4

HATE line 1

yea... but my feeling is that Jack is going to dominate with most any linemates... so pump those guys up early next year. Increase their trade value, after half a season... we'll have a better idea of true needs. And then we can Trade them for assets.

 

[OkimLom]

I find it amusing that people think Kane who has injury issues often, off-ice issues often and is 1 year away from UFA has remotely close the trade value to bring you an a good D as a centerpiece of the trade, when freaking Taylor Hall lands you Larsson just 1 year ago Don't want to call anyone delusional, but this is clearly delusional statement. You are not getting a good D unless you trade away both Kane+8OA+another pick/prospect or Nylander+8OA (I do not want to do that at all as it will deplete the talent pipeline badly and we will need ELC players soon) or Reinhart. If you want to deny that, feel free to live in ignorance for yourself, but in the real world this is likely the case.

.... Also the statements about Pitt's D corp...come on, the only reason Pitt are not out is because Washington and Holtby specifically are clearly playoff chockers (even though I'm still rooting for them) and Fleury is doing some miracles on ice to keep Pittsburgh on top. Not that much to do with Pitt as much as it has to do with Washington's incompetence to rally the troops in the playoffs (they nearly chocked versus rookie-filled Toronto...). If you actually are confident in our D, OK you have the right to Jame, but I don't agree with you and I don't want us to be a Risto injury away from having an absolute garbage blueline in the playoffs 2 years from now.

I do love the backhanded comments. "Don't want to call anyone delusional, but this is clearly delusional statement."

I think it's delusional for people to think that the ONLY way to fix the D is to trade one of our best assets in Reinhart.

I get what you're saying about being one injury away, and maybe instead of worrying about a Risto injury, maybe we can instead worry about a Jack Eichel injury away from having horrible center depth...