Speculation: Which of the following moves hurt the bruins most?
- Thread starter Blowfish
- Start date
AngryMilkcrates
End of an Era
- Jun 4, 2016
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You'd be hard-pressed to find any franchise without their Hall of Fame of Unfortunate Choices.
Blowfish
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No doubt...why the poll wasn't posted on the main HFboard.
KrejciMVP
Registered User
Reilly Smith trade, many teams in the league miss on draft picks so I dont really consider that a transaction. Pastrnak was picked late 1st round.
Mr Cartmenez
Registered User
It's easily Barzal and that is what came to my mind even without knowing the choices. I wouldn't even crucify the Bruins for not selecting him had they only picked once, but they had 3 (!) picks b2b2b in the mid teens and Barzal was already falling. Maybe there wer some red flags, but that's acceptable when you have 3 shots.
Zboril was the obvious pick, because they wanted and needed a D-men (we obviously wish they had picked Chabot instead), but reaching TWICE for Senyshyn and de Brusk was unforgivable. They probably liked Senyshyn better than JdB and therefore we would only have upgraded from JdB (obviously the best of the 3 actual picks made) to Barzal, but even that upgrade would have been substantial and probably enough to make the difference between winning the cup last year and being the runners up.
To be fair, they nailed McAvoy when they easily could have picked Chychrun or Fabbro and you can't be flawless in the draft, but 3 mid first picks and only a decent 2nd liner to show for it with Barzal and Connor right in that range?
And by the way: 2015 draft was a head-scratcher right from the moment the picks were announced. I remember like it was yesterday the thread went nuclear when the name "Barzal" wasn't coming out of the commissioners mouth THRICE.
The same goes for the Seguin- and Hamilton-trades (anyone thought we got too little value in return), so its got nothing to do with hindsight.
Zboril was the obvious pick, because they wanted and needed a D-men (we obviously wish they had picked Chabot instead), but reaching TWICE for Senyshyn and de Brusk was unforgivable. They probably liked Senyshyn better than JdB and therefore we would only have upgraded from JdB (obviously the best of the 3 actual picks made) to Barzal, but even that upgrade would have been substantial and probably enough to make the difference between winning the cup last year and being the runners up.
To be fair, they nailed McAvoy when they easily could have picked Chychrun or Fabbro and you can't be flawless in the draft, but 3 mid first picks and only a decent 2nd liner to show for it with Barzal and Connor right in that range?
And by the way: 2015 draft was a head-scratcher right from the moment the picks were announced. I remember like it was yesterday the thread went nuclear when the name "Barzal" wasn't coming out of the commissioners mouth THRICE.
The same goes for the Seguin- and Hamilton-trades (anyone thought we got too little value in return), so its got nothing to do with hindsight.
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Saxon Eric
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- Dec 18, 2005
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Picking Joe Colborne over John Carlson should be included
It’s a collection of all. All of the success the Bruins have been having over the last decade is in spite of the front office’s best efforts to make us mediocre.
However I’m going with the trades. Too many variables at play for 2015 and while it’s the highest upside “what if?”, it’s also not a guarantee that they wouldn’t have tried to make Mat Barzal into Greg Campbell and Kyle Connor into PJ Axelsson.
However..trades..collectively..the only thing they have to show for trading Tyler Seguin, Reilly Smith, and Dougie Hamilton is Jeremy Lauzon.
They’ve spent the following list to try and replace Reilly Smith and have landed on Ondrej Kase..for now:
two 1sts
2nd
4th
6th
7th
Ryan Spooner
Matt Beleskey
Ryan Lindgren
David Backes
Axel Andersson
Problematic.
However I’m going with the trades. Too many variables at play for 2015 and while it’s the highest upside “what if?”, it’s also not a guarantee that they wouldn’t have tried to make Mat Barzal into Greg Campbell and Kyle Connor into PJ Axelsson.
However..trades..collectively..the only thing they have to show for trading Tyler Seguin, Reilly Smith, and Dougie Hamilton is Jeremy Lauzon.
They’ve spent the following list to try and replace Reilly Smith and have landed on Ondrej Kase..for now:
two 1sts
2nd
4th
6th
7th
Ryan Spooner
Matt Beleskey
Ryan Lindgren
David Backes
Axel Andersson
Problematic.
BruinDust
Registered User
- Aug 2, 2005
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The 2015 draft debacle. And it's not even close. Even if they take Debrusk with one of the three picks, they completely whiffed passing on Barzal, which should of been a no-brainer I don't care how many centers they had at the time. And how any scout could go to a St. John Seadogs game and come away thinking Jakub Zboril was a better D-man than Thomas Chabot needs to get their eyes checked. In my limited viewings of Zboril it was crystal clear this guy had a lot to learn about how to play the game, and got this far based on his physical athletic tools alone. Right now he looks like the Czech version of Jeff Jillson.
The rest ranked by least worst, to most worst.
Nash trade: I don't see this as a terrible deal. Lindgren at the time for most was considered the 4th best LD prospect (behind Zboril, Lauzon, and Vaak). They got rid of some of Belesky's money, and Spooner ended up being a fringe NHLer and quickly a non-NHLer.
Seguin trade: Without the terrible Smith-Hayes trade this deal isn't even that bad in the long-run. Would of came out relatively even had they just kept Smith, maybe even a win considering they did get 3 years of decent play out of Eriksson. But this deal on it's own merit didn't turn out terrible. It was the subsequent moves to the assets they did acquire, even if at the time the value looked light for a player of Seguin's age and pedigree.
Backes - Backes was coming off a playoff run where he was one of if not St. Louis's best player. They never used him right from the get go. Claude Julien, the same coach who had no problem with Joonas Kemppainen centering a line, tried to emulate Krejci + Horton/Iginla and made Backes his power winger. When he should of been the 3rd line center, getting some tough defensive match-ups, basically the role Coyle has now. Then Cassidy comes in and Backes as a winger just didn't fit his system, to be a winger in Cassidy's system you have to be able to skate well. One reason I'm against bringing in a guy like Bobby Ryan who is a below-average skater. It's Boston's own fault IMO that Backes didn't work out here and they eventually had to pay to get rid of him.
Hamilton trade - My biggest gripe in this move was they got zilch that could help them right away and accepted a package purely of futures. Sure their was the threat of a Chiarelli offer sheet, but regardless you don't take a lesser return based on that. They should of gotten at least one asset that was ready to step into the line-up and help the 2015-16 team. It's only now the Bruins are seeing any benefit of this deal. That's way too long.
The rest ranked by least worst, to most worst.
Nash trade: I don't see this as a terrible deal. Lindgren at the time for most was considered the 4th best LD prospect (behind Zboril, Lauzon, and Vaak). They got rid of some of Belesky's money, and Spooner ended up being a fringe NHLer and quickly a non-NHLer.
Seguin trade: Without the terrible Smith-Hayes trade this deal isn't even that bad in the long-run. Would of came out relatively even had they just kept Smith, maybe even a win considering they did get 3 years of decent play out of Eriksson. But this deal on it's own merit didn't turn out terrible. It was the subsequent moves to the assets they did acquire, even if at the time the value looked light for a player of Seguin's age and pedigree.
Backes - Backes was coming off a playoff run where he was one of if not St. Louis's best player. They never used him right from the get go. Claude Julien, the same coach who had no problem with Joonas Kemppainen centering a line, tried to emulate Krejci + Horton/Iginla and made Backes his power winger. When he should of been the 3rd line center, getting some tough defensive match-ups, basically the role Coyle has now. Then Cassidy comes in and Backes as a winger just didn't fit his system, to be a winger in Cassidy's system you have to be able to skate well. One reason I'm against bringing in a guy like Bobby Ryan who is a below-average skater. It's Boston's own fault IMO that Backes didn't work out here and they eventually had to pay to get rid of him.
Hamilton trade - My biggest gripe in this move was they got zilch that could help them right away and accepted a package purely of futures. Sure their was the threat of a Chiarelli offer sheet, but regardless you don't take a lesser return based on that. They should of gotten at least one asset that was ready to step into the line-up and help the 2015-16 team. It's only now the Bruins are seeing any benefit of this deal. That's way too long.
Trading away a 19 year old future #1 center because you couldn’t help guide him to maturity was a major fail. Getting back turdichi for him was worse.
Had we kept Seguin, Krecji could have been moved in his prime for picks and assets to shore up whatever weakness we had at the time.
Talent is hard to find (as illustrated, apparently, by some of our draft choices) and harder to acquire. Letting it slip through your fingers without getting equal value is a damn shame.
Had we kept Seguin, Krecji could have been moved in his prime for picks and assets to shore up whatever weakness we had at the time.
Talent is hard to find (as illustrated, apparently, by some of our draft choices) and harder to acquire. Letting it slip through your fingers without getting equal value is a damn shame.
2015 draft AINEC. At least they got Carlo and Lauzon in the 2nd round but not taking one of Barzal/Connor/Chabot with 3 straight picks is unforgivable. They probably win the cup last season if they had gone "consensus" with those picks. The only move that comes anywhere close is the Seguin trade, and even that could have been saved if they hadn't bailed on Smith too soon.
The Smith for Hayes trade just completely exemplifies the blind spot of the Neely/Sweeney regime. Almost all of their mistakes have been when the chased size. Hayes, Backes, Belesky, B. Ritchie, Nick Ritchie, only one of these players will be in the league next year (Nick Ritchie) and he's terrible. Passing on Barzal and Connor is also directly attributable to the "we must get bigger and tougher" mentality.
I think it is important to look for size, especially down the lineup, and where you can get it up the lineup, but getting good hockey players is far more important. Who are the biggest different makers at forward in the Cup Finals right now? Point, Kucherov and Pavelski, all smaller players, none even taken in the first two rounds of the draft. The problem is, we don't even attempt to look for that type of player any more. It is all Ritchies, Frederics, Senyshyns and Beechers.
Blowfish
Count down ...
Yeah, that's the frustrating thing for me too. It's very okay to make mistakes, it's very not okay to not learn from mistakes and continue to repeat them.
It's been a very very good thing for this regime that Bergeron, Krejci, Rask, Chara, Lucic, and Marchand were already in place when they showed up and started patting themselves on the back. I'd say Kessel too but this group completely wasted one of the great fleecings in NHL history.
Wasn't the consensus Zboril, and 2 of Barzal, Connor, and Konecny? Bruins have the problem of trying to be the smartest person in the room and shit like this is why they need to stop being idiots.
Correct, if you go off the Bobfather's list and compare to who was drafted consensus best player available would have been: Barzal(9), Connor(13), Zboril(14).
The idea of Chabot over Zboril is a bit of revisionist history, but the other two absolutely are not, at the time it was very much a 13 player top tier...so going in with the Bruins at 14 the hope was that someone in that top 13 reaches and you grab whoever falls...but if everything goes in line and you end up with Zboril, Konecny or even Colin White you'll be just fine.
Then B's acquired 13 and Dallas took Gurianov and the perfect storm fell into their laps.
B's did what they did, NYI rushed to the phone to grab 16 from Edmonton as fast as they could, and the rest is history.
BruinDust
Registered User
- Aug 2, 2005
- 24,516
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June 25 to July 1st 2015 will go down as one of the darkest weeks in Bruins history when its all said and done.
Sent Soderberg's right packing for a 6th rounder. Still a productive NHLer here 5 years later. Pick became Oscar Steen who isn't finished as a prospect but has quite a way to go to make it to the show.
Lucic trade - Jakub Zboril hasn't made the NHL here entering his SIXTH training camp with the Bruins and needs waivers to be sent down. Colin Miller was here and gone and never really got his footing under Julien. They moved Jones once they were told by his camp he wasn't interested in sharing the net with Rask. Frederic hasn't cracked the roster and his chances this coming year don't look great with all the waiver-eligible forwards on the roster now. Who would of thought the best part of the entire package would end up being Sean Kuraly who was an unknown quantity at the time.
Hamilton trade - JFK is gone back to Europe and we'll see if he ever returns. Don't be shocked if we've already seen the last of him. Senyshyn like Zboril hasn't made the NHL and he's entering his SIXTH camp. Lauzon looks like an NHL although his ceiling may not be terribly high. Like Miller could be quickly lost in the expansion draft.
Signed Matt Belesky to a 5-year contract. Eventually traded with 50% retention as he declined to an AHL caliber player quickly.
Bruins own picks:
Debrusk - Solid pick but here entering his 2nd contract he might be trade bait. Wildly inconsistent, plays far too much of an individual game for my liking.
Carlo - Cracked the NHL line-up early, but seems to really have leveled off and while he's a solid player, a Top 4 guy, he's a low-end Top 4 IMO and his skill-set isn't uber-difficult to find. Looked brutal in the RTP tourny.
But wait there is more:
Vlader - He was a project that looks like it may pay some dividends eventually. Got lit up in his NHL debut but you could hardly blame him for that. Needs another year in the AHL, posted solid numbers last year. Big and athletic, his technique still needs refinement.
Gabrielle - The Bruins soured on this kid pretty quick, some folks here know more about why that happened then I do. Last seen playing in the Austrialian league.
Hughes - Still a prospect, got a game in the NHL last year. Depth player maybe at the NHL level someday.
Becker - This was to be his 4th NCAA season in 2020-21. Debatable as to whether he will even be offered a contract by the Bruins once his NCAA eligibility ends.
Then.......
Smith and Savard's contract for Hayes - Fell out of favour here quickly, went a massive stretch without even scoring a goal. Eventually bought out.
And one bonus item......
Sweeney dealt the Bruins own 5th round pick in 2015 at the draft to Minnesota in exchange for Minnesota's 2016 5th round pick. The Bruins selected Cameron Clarke, who was not offered a contract upon completion of his NCAA career.
The 5th round pick that Minnesota got in 2015 was used to select Karill Kaprizov, a very highly touted scoring forward in the KHL and one of the best players outside of the NHL.
So to summerize:
Out
Lucic
Hamilton
Smith
Savard's contract
Bruins own picks Rounds 1-7
Soderberg's rights
In
Bekesky
Steen
Zboril
Colin Miller
Frederic
Kuraly
JFK
Lauzon
Senyshyn
Debrusk
Carlo
Vlader
Gabrielle
Hughes
Becker
Hayes
Clarke
The final book hasn't been written on some of these guys. But here today only 5 of these assets are in the NHL. A borderline 2nd line inconsistent winger (Debrusk), a Top 4 if somewhat limited D-man (Carlo), and couple 3rd pairing D (Colin Miller, Lauzon), and a 4th line center (Kuraly)
Woof!
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BruinDust
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- Aug 2, 2005
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I blame a lot of it on scouting and they've simply placed too much value on natural athletic ability. This problem goes back before Sweeney, before Chiarelli, before MOC even.
Scott Bradley is the one constant over this time period (been with the org. since 1993) and my guess he should take much of the blame for their approach to drafting and prospect player acquisition.
TCB
Registered User
Not getting one of Barzal,Connor or Boeser with three consecutive picks can only be explained as smartest man in the room complex or very very poor scouting.
Getting Carlo in the second has helped saved Sweeney just a little bit but where has the next Bergeron gone in JFK
. Only if they had just gone off redline or McKenzie. Barzal and Connor, speed and skill, talk about throwing in your Aces when their in your hand.
The Seguin deal hurt big time do to the return or should I say lack of.
Getting Carlo in the second has helped saved Sweeney just a little bit but where has the next Bergeron gone in JFK
. Only if they had just gone off redline or McKenzie. Barzal and Connor, speed and skill, talk about throwing in your Aces when their in your hand.The Seguin deal hurt big time do to the return or should I say lack of.
Fenian24
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- Jun 14, 2010
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You're right, get some toughness that can play and have intangibles like leadership. There is a reason Pat Maroon is about to win his second cup in two years and Goodrow cost Tampa what he did in that trade. Toughness and grit that can play are the second most valuable assets after goal scoring.
Great summary...I wouldn't even stop there though. 2015 they also signed Beleskey which was detrimental to finding a 2RW last year.
Probably won't go down in history the same way but the following season, but a year where they had no look at all of a contender and missed the playoffs they spent a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and Anthony Camara to acquire Lee Stempniak and John Michael Liles and held onto Loui Eriksson and Brett Connolly as rentals. When those players walked, they then signed David Backes to his deal.
BruinDust
Registered User
- Aug 2, 2005
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I forget Matt Belesky at first but added him back in.
That 1st trade deadline for Sweeney was awful too. You could see by the eye-test that team wasn't going anywhere near a Stanley Cup. Connolly wasn't a UFA (he just didn't get qualified, another blunder as he ended up a capable NHL player). But holding onto Eriksson, using assets for Suitcase Stempniak and JM Liles.
Overall there is no question Sweeney's first year as a GM was pretty dreadful. He got better after that thankfully but his moves in Year 1 really set him back.
Hindsight is always 20 20.
No one can predict the future with absolute certainty there are too many variables.
As in life choices are made and you live with the consequences, some good some bad.
Losing out on Iginla for the playoff run in 13 possibly cost them a cup.
Piss poor officiating in the 19 finals cost them another cup.
Those two things hurt most out of the last 10 years
No one can predict the future with absolute certainty there are too many variables.
As in life choices are made and you live with the consequences, some good some bad.
Losing out on Iginla for the playoff run in 13 possibly cost them a cup.
Piss poor officiating in the 19 finals cost them another cup.
Those two things hurt most out of the last 10 years
