TV: Which listed show is the best Star Trek series?

[Flukeshot]

The success of DS9 (along with the show it ripped off, Babylon 5) is partly what convinced executives that shows could move away from syndicated in-any-order format and more toward Myth arcs. TNG is great, DS9 is what eventually led to Breaking Bad/Sopranos/The Wire.

In that context it's such a shame that Voyager- built with a premise suited for a Myth arc far more than DS9 ever was- whiplashed back to monster-of-the-week stories, where the starship looks brand spankin' new every episode.

Very good assessment, can't say it better.

Though my long term preference has been for TNG because many episodes are one offs. Sometimes I'm just in the mood for a ~45 min complete story rather than needing to watch a season to get results. It's a different type of entertainment. I think it has made TNG more re-watchable. Don't like the episode? Skip it.

I wanted Discovery to be good. I really did. But yuck. Pretty much every character is annoying.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Does Discovery really get better? I gave up after season 2.

Imo, it does quite a bit. Season 1 was a disaster. In fact I gave up on the show midway through season 1 until i decided to binge until current a few months ago. Season 1 is brutal. Season 2 is a little better, but they leaned hard into nostalgia and fan service characters. Much too much, IMO, but quality was better and characters started to get a bit more fleshed out, but overall still subpar. Minor spoiler is that they abandoned this in season 3 completely, think Discovery meets Voyager in a sense. This refocused the show back on the characters and the storyline rather than fan service. Characters started to become 3 dimensional, the world started feeling a little more real (and unreal as well as its Star Trek). Is it masterpiece TV? No obviously not. Is it more enjoyable, for sure. Better stories, better characters starting in 3.

 

[les Habs]

I’ve never seen the original series, Discovery or more than the first season of Picard. So based on that it’d have to be the following:

-DS9
-TNG
-Voyager/Enterprise

For me DS9 is the clear winner because I thought the character development was quite good and not just limited to the “good guys”. However, as someone else noted I do like the discovery aspect of TNG. Anyway, while I know that Voyager wasn’t perfect I really feel like it kind of gets a bad rap. There were some really annoying characters, but there were also some very good characters. I didn’t love some of the storylines, but there were also a lot of really good storylines. For me the good outweighed the bad, but if you eliminate the bad you probably cut a whole season or two out of the full series.

TNG is great, DS9 is what eventually led to Breaking Bad/Sopranos/The Wire.

This is pretty hot take if you ask me. Twin Peaks did more than DS9 and shows like that getting created. In fact some of the shows you listed probably influenced other shows you listed more than DS9.

 

[scorpiorising]

About what expected results wise.

I liked the cast of TNG best but as a show I enjoyed TOS most. I liked the adventure episodes and TNG didn't have as many.

Also a lot of the bad guys in TNG were kinda lame.

 

[Baby Punisher]

Does Discovery really get better? I gave up after season 2.

No.

 

[The Macho King]

DS9 with a bullet. So many terrific characters, real character growth, and good storytelling. I think there may be a *little* too much focus on its serialized storytelling - there was plenty of monster/plot of the week as well (and they were often very good).

TNG second.

TOS third - just so many classic episodes.

Then I go Enterprise. Is Bakula and half the crew terrible actors? Yes. Is the finale insulting? Absolutely. But it still at least captures the spirit of ST in a way that clearly loves what the show is about.

Then... ugh, I guess Picard for nostalgia.

Then Discovery because even if it's not good at least it is watchable insofar as the production values don't suck and it's only like 10 episodes a season.

Then literally anything else.

Then Voyager. The entire crew outside of the Doctor is terrible. Like not just bad actors, but bad characters. The plot has so much promise but the writers just dropped the ball on developing interesting villains. Don't make the Borg f***ing lame. Hate it and to this day I've still not finished the entire season despite trying probably ten times.

 

[CaptainCrunch67]

What I believe happened is that the creator of Babylon 5 went to Paramount with his ideas for the show and Paramount chose not to make it, but turned around and made a Star Trek show with the same concept. DS9 ended up premiering first, but it seems like Paramount may've ripped off the idea for it.

That's the tougher debate for me, I recently stumbled on the Babylon 5 box set with all the movies and Crusade. I watched through the whole series and yeah season 1 struggled, but then it jumped into the Shadow War and then the Earth Civil War, then the last season was flat because they didn't expect it.

But it was a brilliant piece of television, with awesome acting from the start. The season 1 and 2 special effects are clunky and video game like but after that they do hold up pretty well.

Deep Space 9 is a prettier looking series from the sets to the CGI, it looked like money was spent. The later massive ship battles was awesome to watch as well. The acting from the start on deep space 9 was top notch. Like Babylon 5 the first establishing season to season and a half was a struggle and then they got into the Dominion and things took off.

I love both series equally and really they're head and shoulders above any of the other Trek series.

The important thing with Deep Space 9 and the reason why I enjoyed it so much was that it went away from the Gene utopian soceity theory where everything was pretty awesome or if bad fixable bad. At times Start Trek feels like its trying to lecture its viewers and hit them over the head with this notion of a perfect humanity. Sure it had flawed people but they could be fixed in 20 minutes with 2 commercial breaks.

Deep Space 9 changed that. Humanity and the Federation was flawed, there were different personality types and they were willing to cut corners and do unsavory things for what they saw as the right reason. we saw attempts by Federation officers to over throw the government in the name of security. We saw a Federation Captain creating a lie and murdering people to gain fire power. We saw terrorists and we saw cowards. We learned that war was still a real thing and it wasn't fighting against an easy to define enemy like the Borg. We saw deaths in the trillions and the writers weren't afraid to kill or hurt cast members to drive points across. We saw that the Federation certainly wasn't perfect and far from unbeatable.

Even the enemy, the Dominion, you could have some sympathy for the enemy. The Gem'hadar (sp?) were slaves and victims and throwaways and so were the Vorta. Even the changlings, had a easy to understand reason to fear and hate the rest of the galaxy and saw their reasons for war as somewhat noble.

Deep space 9 turned Trek on its head and shook it and some Trek fans hated that, they wanted to Gene concepts and endless exploration and a flawless empire of man, so we got Voyager and then Enterprise.

Discovery really tried to emulate some of the themes of DS9, but that failure has been discussed here over and over again.

 

[67 others]

I’ve never seen the original series, Discovery or more than the first season of Picard. So based on that it’d have to be the following:

-DS9
-TNG
-Voyager/Enterprise

For me DS9 is the clear winner because I thought the character development was quite good and not just limited to the “good guys”. However, as someone else noted I do like the discovery aspect of TNG. Anyway, while I know that Voyager wasn’t perfect I really feel like it kind of gets a bad rap. There were some really annoying characters, but there were also some very good characters. I didn’t love some of the storylines, but there were also a lot of really good storylines. For me the good outweighed the bad, but if you eliminate the bad you probably cut a whole season or two out of the full series.



This is pretty hot take if you ask me. Twin Peaks did more than DS9 and shows like that getting created. In fact some of the shows you listed probably influenced other shows you listed more than DS9.

Twin peaks was cancelled after season 2 because it didn't draw on saturdays

 

[The Macho King]

I’ve never seen the original series, Discovery or more than the first season of Picard. So based on that it’d have to be the following:

-DS9
-TNG
-Voyager/Enterprise

For me DS9 is the clear winner because I thought the character development was quite good and not just limited to the “good guys”. However, as someone else noted I do like the discovery aspect of TNG. Anyway, while I know that Voyager wasn’t perfect I really feel like it kind of gets a bad rap. There were some really annoying characters, but there were also some very good characters. I didn’t love some of the storylines, but there were also a lot of really good storylines. For me the good outweighed the bad, but if you eliminate the bad you probably cut a whole season or two out of the full series.



This is pretty hot take if you ask me. Twin Peaks did more than DS9 and shows like that getting created. In fact some of the shows you listed probably influenced other shows you listed more than DS9.

Yeah - I would think the X-Files mythology episodes (which was inspired by Twin Peaks) did more for it than a show on UPN or whatever network DS9 was on.

Hell, I would argue that adapting shit like Dallas or soap operas to just a later time slot had more of an impact.

 

[NyQuil]

Deep space 9 turned Trek on its head and shook it and some Trek fans hated that, they wanted to Gene concepts and endless exploration and a flawless empire of man, so we got Voyager and then Enterprise.

I think what a lot of critics failed to realize is that the Federation is still aspirational in nature and still very much at the core of the storytelling.

While humans are flawed and fall short, Federation principles still serve as the foundation for this future society, and the stories are often about how the characters strive to uphold them in the face of crisis and challenge.

I've heard from a lot of people who dismiss DS9 as throwing Trek out the window, but it's still very much Trek, only viewed through a much more "human" lens.

It was a pretty bold step that not everyone agreed with, but it certainly helped answer some of the questions about how a futuristic utopia might actually operate (or fail to operate) in practice on the fringes of governed space.

On a personal note, I've never been to the Yukon myself, but a colleague who spent some time there described it very much as a frontier - which attracts transplants who simply aren't interested in the mundane ordered urban life of much more settled parts of Canada. "Some of the folks there are just a little off-kilter."

In a sense, DS9 is about as far away from Earth as you can get - and while the lion's share of people on Earth fully embrace the creed of the Federation, the people that do not would certainly be attracted to the opportunities at society's edge.

 

[Tawnos]

DS9 is the best TV show listed.

TNG is the best Star Trek show.

Not saying that DS9 doesn't hold to the ideals of Star Trek. It definitely does. TNG is just better at it.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Deep Space Nine is my personal favorite by far, but I wouldn't fault anyone that prefers TNG over it as that's my very strong # 2.

Enterprise was okay, and I personally think that Voyager missed its core point of potentially being a resource-strapped ship hanging on by a thread by the end of its first episode (save for a throwaway two-parter) and it became a weak show as a result. I haven't watched Picard or Discovery yet so I can't judge, but at least from what I've heard I'm doubting they reach the heights of DS9 for me. TOS is tough for me to judge, as I appreciate what it did and how groundbreaking it was, but as someone born well after it came out the show itself just feels too campy and gimmicky for me to really get all that invested into it.

 

[CaptainCrunch67]

I think what a lot of critics failed to realize is that the Federation is still aspirational in nature and still very much at the core of the storytelling.

While humans are flawed and fall short, Federation principles still serve as the foundation for this future society, and the stories are often about how the characters strive to uphold them in the face of crisis and challenge.

I've heard from a lot of people who dismiss DS9 as throwing Trek out the window, but it's still very much Trek, only viewed through a much more "human" lens.

It was a pretty bold step that not everyone agreed with, but it certainly helped answer some of the questions about how a futuristic utopia might actually operate (or fail to operate) in practice on the fringes of governed space.

On a personal note, I've never been to the Yukon myself, but a colleague who spent some time there described it very much as a frontier - which attracts transplants who simply aren't interested in the mundane ordered urban life of much more settled parts of Canada. "Some of the folks there are just a little off-kilter."

In a sense, DS9 is about as far away from Earth as you can get - and while the lion's share of people on Earth fully embrace the creed of the Federation, the people that do not would certainly be attracted to the opportunities at society's edge.

One of the best and smartest lines in Deep Space 9 was uttered by Quark, he showed that he had a perfect understanding of humanity and the structure of the Federation

Quark : "Let me tell you something about hewmons, nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time, and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people will become as nasty and violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes. You know I'm right, don't you? Well? Aren't you going to say something? "

 

[les Habs]

Twin peaks was cancelled after season 2 because it didn't draw on saturdays

And yet prior to that if I recall correctly it was the number one show on television At some point during season one. Then you have the movie after the fact and another series decades later. I would say it’s pretty universally excepted that it was one of the real groundbreaking shows and a lot of more “modern” television was influenced by it.

 

[67 others]

And yet prior to that if I recall correctly it was the number one show on television At some point during season one. Then you have the movie after the fact and another series decades later. I would say it’s pretty universally excepted that it was one of the real groundbreaking shows and a lot of more “modern” television was influenced by it.

No doubt. But it still had initially high ratings then dropped like a comet after they resolved the plot and moved to the wacky stuff. It was lost season 7 except during season 2 lol.

DS9 was the first show to have a successful 7 season run in that style

 

[The Colonel]

Poor Voyager should be getting at least a few votes.

 

[guinness]

This post is going off into a tangent, so possibly just ranting.

I'm watching a video from Trek Culture on YT, I can't believe how many ST shows they currently have out or in production...which I suppose if I was a bigger ST fan that might be neat, but holy saturation, Batman!

Aren't they adding to (or rebooting) the Kelvin universe Trek as well?

Just musing that too many cooks, too many plotlines, only so many writers that understand the characters, and the product becomes diluted.

And on that particular Trek Culture video, when the host was talking about Picard, the show just doesn't look appealing, so much fan service (Seven of Nine, really?) and reminiscing. When they talk about Discovery, it just looked like everyone was crying all the time (the characters, not the show's hosts).

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

Poor Voyager should be getting at least a few votes.

So does Enterprise IMO. Only two not deserving of votes are the bottom two.

 

[The Colonel]

This post is going off into a tangent, so possibly just ranting.

I'm watching a video from Trek Culture on YT, I can't believe how many ST shows they currently have out or in production...which I suppose if I was a bigger ST fan that might be neat, but holy saturation, Batman!

Aren't they adding to (or rebooting) the Kelvin universe Trek as well?

Just musing that too many cooks, too many plotlines, only so many writers that understand the characters, and the product becomes diluted.

And on that particular Trek Culture video, when the host was talking about Picard, the show just doesn't look appealing, so much fan service (Seven of Nine, really?) and reminiscing. When they talk about Discovery, it just looked like everyone was crying all the time (the characters, not the show's hosts).

The one absolutely worth watching is Lower Decks. True old school Trek fans. First episode isnt very good so skip it if needed- but great show

 

[Lshap]

I went on an OS binge during the holidays. It amazed me how many episodes I couldn't fully remember. It must have been decades since I saw them, and while there are about 25-30 episodes I can probably recite line by line, there were a bunch where I couldn't remember what happened next, or how they ended. It was surreal watching Kirk, Spock and McCoy in totally unfamiliar scenes.

Generally, the weakest episodes are those that pimp Kirk as romantic bait for virginal alien women. The dialogue as Kirk helps them discover their libido – "Help me again", "Apologize to me again" – is cringe-worthy by today's standards of sexuality. But to his credit, Bill Shatner manages to make it appear less hokey. He gets mocked for his over-the-top acting, but re-watching those episodes made me realize the fault is with the scripts, not the actor. Shatner's no Patrick Stewart, but he's a better actor than given credit for.

That said, Leonard Nimoy and DeForest Kelley are in a different tier. Nimoy in particular is in a class by himself. Of the many actors who have played Vulcans – including reboots of Spock himself – none captured the stoicism so naturally and without affectation as Nimoy. I had forgotten, or possibly never noticed, how much depth he gave to the character. Each facial expression, each raised eyebrow, each measured line of dialogue fleshed out the character into a true TV prototype. It's no coincidence that the original Spock remains the single most iconic character in the entire franchise. Nimoy deserves major credit.

 

[NyQuil]

That said, Leonard Nimoy and DeForest Kelley are in a different tier. Nimoy in particular is in a class by himself. Of the many actors who have played Vulcans – including reboots of Spock himself – none captured the stoicism so naturally and without affectation as Nimoy. I had forgotten, or possibly never noticed, how much depth he gave to the character. Each facial expression, each raised eyebrow, each measured line of dialogue fleshed out the character into a true TV prototype. It's no coincidence that the original Spock remains the single most iconic character in the entire franchise. Nimoy deserves major credit.

Every piece of visual science-fiction or fantasy needs a guiding character that is acted so plausibly and with total commitment to the role that you are willing to forgive the hokey sets or costumes and suspend disbelief completely.

Whether it's Alec Guinness or Ian McKellen or Leonard Nimoy, you are drawn into the world and engage with it as if it were real.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

So does Enterprise IMO. Only two not deserving of votes are the bottom two.

To me Voyager and Enterprise are in a clear tier below the first 3 series.

Dull underdeveloped characters. I usually enjoyed Janeway Seven and the Doctor in Voyager. The rest I basically wanted to turn it off when they had a Chekotay Tuvok Harry etc episode. Enterprise I have a hard time coming up with any I liked other than Jeffrey Combs' Shran. God that man always delivered on Star Trek.

The plots usually fell between bad and bland. There were some good ones during Voyager's 7 year run but it was a lot more miss than hit IMO.

I liked season 4 of Enterprise when they got rid of that dumb temporal cold war plot line (up until the weak ass finale). I'll give them props to finally giving the Andorians some screen time and doing a pretty good job of them too mostly thanks to Jeffrey Combs always delivering.

On the whole they are clearly below the first 3 series and above the Bad Reboot Trek. Again just my 2c.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Then Voyager. The entire crew outside of the Doctor is terrible. Like not just bad actors, but bad characters. The plot has so much promise but the writers just dropped the ball on developing interesting villains.

The problem is the crew is clearly set up for a show driven by the conflict of the integrated crew in a hostile situation a buhmillion miles from home, between Maquis and Star Fleet.

Janeway/Tuvok= Star Fleet (and the Maquis are pissed at Tuvok because he sold them out, plus Tuvok being a secret blood knight trying to tamp his thirst for vengeance with Vulcan religion might make him open to the Maquis way of doing things?)

Chakotay/Torres = Maquis (and again, Torres Star Fleet connection might make for some good storylines?)

Parris/Kim/Doctor = Wild Cards, fresh meat Kim, Parris whose Admiral father and record getting kicked out of Star Fleet for getting a cadet killed and trying to cover it up leaving him trusted by no one, and the Doctor as the obvious logical impartial arbiter who can conveniently resolve conflicts we write ourselves into with his #logic

And then the comic relief aliens. Is "My people can only get pregnant once, and it's in an unpredictable two hour span" the single most lazy bit of writing in Star Trek? Survey says, maybe.

Anyway, the writers total abandonment of the integrated crew immediately in favor of TNG 2.0 hamstrung the show.

 

[Roo Returns]

TNG is the most wholesome and positive of all the Star Trek series. DS9 the most gritty and dark. It depends what you want and TNG has some dark stuff with DS9 having some wholesome stuff too.

The entire premise of DS9 is set up from two events in TNG; the aftermath of the Cardassian War which concluded like 8-9 years in timeline before TNG, and the Battle of Wolf 359 which was in the final episode on TNG Season 3.

There are some characters from TNG who join the cast of DS9 or show up, both in the main cast, and as reoccurring guests. So if you have time, watch them in that order.

It's weird with TOS because to me the high points of that cast were the second, third, fourth, and six movies but you need TOS AND the overlooked Animated Series AND the first movie to get there. TOS is from a different era. It had about 10-15 dynamite A-Tier episodes, and the rest were between B-C tier. But it's cultural impact was really that big.