Which General Manager has been the most detrimental to the Leafs team today?

[Tak7]

I went with the John Ferguson Jr era for a few reasons.

The main one obviously is the Muskoka 5. It's hard not to wonder just where we could be now, as a franchise, if we chose to bottom out those years - either by not re-signing the core of the team that missed the playoffs, or somehow managing to move those 5 players for quality future assets.

That was really the time that needed to kick start the rebuild.

Notice how I said the JFJ era - I think ownership / management getting their noses involved really harmed him. He wasn't great at his job, but he wasn't helped by those above him.

 

[The Apologist]

All of them. JFJ wanted to do his best, but wasn't allowed to.
Fletcher shouldn't have done what he did

Burke ruined this team. I said it last night - I don't get how he gets all this love and adoration and people want him back. He screwed the team over and set it back pretty much where it was before when he got here.

Nonis just needs to go too. he's part of the Burke problem.

Normally I agree with your posts, but how the hell do you figure?

 

[The Apologist]

I went with the John Ferguson Jr era for a few reasons.

The main one obviously is the Muskoka 5. It's hard not to wonder just where we could be now, as a franchise, if we chose to bottom out those years - either by not re-signing the core of the team that missed the playoffs, or somehow managing to move those 5 players for quality future assets.

That was really the time that needed to kick start the rebuild.

Notice how I said the JFJ era - I think ownership / management getting their noses involved really harmed him. He wasn't great at his job, but he wasn't helped by those above him.

I agree with the JFJ era, but think the Nonis era could be worse.

 

[Al14]

You guys are weird if you think JFJ is what makes the difference TODAY.

I mean get real. Today we are dealing with Burke and Nonis moves. Bad picks bad asset losses and trades.

Let it register.

One name... RASK!!!

 

[leburn98]

The correct answer is MLSE. If I had to put a face to it, it would be JFJ tenure. However, I realize that he is not all to blame as he had little to no real control. MLSE did not allow him to rebuild.

As for Burke, considering what he was left with, I honestly can't see how anyone could hate on the guy. All of his trades, minus the Kessel trade, were fleece jobs. Even the Kessel trade as it stands now isn't horrible. Now his offseason signings leave a lot to be desired.

What many seem to ignore is the current success that the Marlies are having. While they may not be the most skilled group of players, they are extremely hardworking (something the Leafs desperately need). Unfortunately, the Marlies are still a few years off from making an impact with the big club. How that will shape up for the Leafs in the future, no one knows. What can be said is the Marlies have clinched their third division title in 3 years. They also made a good run to the finals. A winning culture is being put in place, starting with our farm system. Hopefully this culture will carry over to the Leafs in a few years.

As for Nonis, I am not ready to judge him based on one full season. Just like Clarkson, I'm willing to give him a chance. You look at his trades and really I don't see any major issues. Sure you could point to the Bolland trade (who will potentially leave as a UFA), but let's be honest here, who could see that type of injury happening. Who knows with a healthy Bolland and Bozak during that early stretch of loses in November, where this team may have ended up. Let's not forget that our PK dropped drastically the Bolland and Bozak injuries. That's not to say these are valid excuses, but rather he should get a second chance.

EDIT: I should add that I don't blame the current MLSE (Rogers/Bell) as they've only been the current owners for a little over 2 years. I firmly believe that Rogers/Bell have more to gain from a competitive, playoff-bound Leafs team due to TV ratings and profits.

 

[Al14]

Normally I agree with your posts, but how the hell do you figure?

Daisy is correct IMHO. They all made HUGE mistakes!

JFJ was on a VERY SHORT LEASH. He wanted a rebuild, but, management said NO! He is a good evaluator of talent and would have built a very good team through the draft. He also traded RASK!

Fletcher, well, he traded Steen and signed Finger! Traded UP to take Schenn, although, we ended up with JvR!

Burke traded 2 1st rounders and a 2nd round draft pick to get Kessel. The problem with that is he stupidly overestimated our team and we gave Boston 3 very high picks. Set us back a few years at least! Dumb move as Kessel is not a key piece to build around. He's the last piece you add to a contender! How about that Komisarek and other dubious signings?

Nonis signed Clarkson to that contract! He also signed both Kessel and Phaneuf to stupid amounts, too soon! Nonis also sat on his hands at the deadline when it was quite clear we weren't good enough on D. He also didn't clear out some UFAs who may not re-sign with us. Nonis could have fired Carlyle when it was clear this team was not responding well to his coaching. Enough said!

So yeah, Daisy was right on!

 

[achtungbaby]

How about we hire them all back and go with a team of GM's?

Put JFJ in charge of drafting. Put Burke in charge of trading under the strictest of orders not to trade any picks or prospects for at least a few years. Put Nonis in charge of keeping Burke away from any camera or microphone. Put the silver fox in charge of napping mid day and pumping out useless memos regarding the hand dryers in the executive washrooms.

Couldn't be any worse then what we've been running with right? Right??

 

[Guy Boucher]

Nonis is well on his way to JFJ status.

 

[The Apologist]

Daisy is correct IMHO. They all made HUGE mistakes!

JFJ was on a VERY SHORT LEASH. He wanted a rebuild, but, management said NO! He is a good evaluator of talent and would have built a very good team through the draft. He also traded RASK!

Fletcher, well, he traded Steen and signed Finger!

Burke traded 2 1st rounders and a 2nd round draft pick to get Kessel. The problem with that is he stupidly overestimated our team and we gave Boston 3 very high picks. Set us back a few years at least! Dumb move as Kessel is not a key piece to build around. He's the last piece you add to a contender! How about that Komisarek and other dubious signings?

Nonis signed Clarkson to that contract! He also signed both Kessel and Phaneuf to stupid amounts, too soon! Nonis also sat on his hands at the deadline when it was quite clear we weren't good enough on D. He also didn't clear out some UFAs who may not re-sign with us. Nonis could have fired Carlyle when it was clear this team was not responding well to his coaching. Enough said!

So yeah, Daisy was right on!

Kessel was 21 years old and is one of the best players in the game today!! Would you have traded two firsts and a second for Tavares on his draft day? Most here would have, right?

And even Boston doesn't think the best player drafted with those picks is the one to build around. Teams are built on more than one player. Burke was doing why we've longed for, rebuilding through youth with a concept in mind. He was the only one I can think of since Fletcher who did so. His free agents didnt always pan out, but he also didnt spend stupidly. Each player brought in filled a role.

Nonis is continuing a trend of MLSE and Leaf Nation of getting the shiny new toys regardless of cost, fit or results.

 

[cynicism]

All of the above

 

[Yosho]

I voted Burke because he had the longest tenure.

Saying that, the Clarkson signing was the worst move out of all 4 of these decision-makers. Worse than giving away Rask, Steen, and signing Komisarek. Dave Nonis can (and should) take the cake for the worst of them all.

 

[Al14]

Kessel was 21 years old and is one of the best players in the game today!! Would you have traded two firsts and a second for Tavares on his draft day? Most here would have, right?

And even Boston doesn't think the best player drafted with those picks is the one to build around. Teams are built on more than one player. Burke was doing why we've longed for, rebuilding through youth with a concept in mind. He was the only one I can think of since Fletcher who did so. His free agents didnt always pan out, but he also didnt spend stupidly. Each player brought in filled a role.

Nonis is continuing a trend of MLSE and Leaf Nation of getting the shiny new toys regardless of cost, fit or results.

One of the best players in the game today my ASS! He's a 1 dimensional, streaky, inconsistent goal scorer! Drew Doughty was correct in his assessment.

He can't score on breakaways, or on shootout attempts, to save his life. He's deathly afraid of contact and avoids getting hit at all costs, including allowing the opposition to take the puck easily away from him.

He doesn't backcheck nearly hard enough, however, he does use his speed occasionally to help out the D. His defensive coverage in our zone stinks most of the time.

I could go on, but, enough is enough!

 

[The Apologist]

One of the best players in the game today my ASS! He's a 1 dimensional, streaky, inconsistent goal scorer! Drew Doughty was correct in his assessment.

He can't score on breakaways, or on shootout attempts, to save his life. He's deathly afraid of contact and avoids getting hit at all costs, including allowing the opposition to take the puck easily away from him.

He doesn't backcheck nearly hard enough, however, he does use his speed occasionally to help out the D. His defensive coverage in our zone stinks most of the time.

I could go on, but, enough is enough!

As does the defensive prowess of most ppg players. What's your point?

 

[Al14]

As does the defensive prowess of most ppg players. What's your point?

Overpaid and should not be the centre piece to build a team around IMHO!

 

[napoleon in rags]

Clarkson is still a capable player who just doesn't mesh with the current team's system (or lack thereof).

I think without question it should be Cliff Fletcher (reloaded) not only because of his trade of Steen + Colaiacovo for Stempniak, but he also signed Jeff Finger to that idiotic contract, AND his dismantling of the Muskoka 5 set this team back HUGE when you look back at how everything played out.

Losing Sundin for nothing, having to buy out Tucker (who is still on the books this season!), running McCabe out of town... I mean, really, when you think about it, had that simply not happened, and had Burke inherited a team that still had an aging Sundin, McCabe, Tucker, Steen, Colaiacovo...

Who knows... I just think that Burke would've been able to assemble a better team than the current stock in a much quicker time period. And having Sundin retire a Leaf, after first being able to pass on some good experience to the "next guy" whether it was Phaneuf or whomever, also would have been invaluable service to our current team.

Fletcher may have been instrumental in assembling one of the greatest Leafs teams in recent memory, he was also responsible for upheaving another great leafs roster in as controversially opposite a way as imagineable.

At least JFjr left us with some good prospects. TBH if there was a chance to bring JFjr back as head of scouting, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

This is a good post. If you had omitted calling Clarkson 'capable' then it would have been an excellent post.

 

[richardn]

Burke did a decent job he made some good trades to
Make this team better. All Nonis has done as messed it up by singing all these long term deals. Burke fleeced Calgary for Phaneuf and philly for JVR. Trading for Kessel was a risky move but didn't end as bad as we all thought it would. He has done some decent drafting to. He also got us great returns on guys like Blake and Beachamin, Antropov, Kaberle and Poni. Burke was doing all the right things for a fast turn around without a full rebuild. JFJ really put Burke in an impossible position to start with.

 

[Stephen]

Cliff Fletcher.

If he had handled things the right way he could have avoided devaluing all of our assets in public, actually gotten players to move instead of his useless bad cop posturing, and put us in a position to snag Stamkos and Tavares when we were ready to hit rock bottom.

Burke prolonged the dysfunction and it will be some time before the Leafs get themselves off the track he's put us on.

 

[thewave]

The Kessel trade was a good trade but didn't go well, nobody in their right mind expected Toronto to pick second in the Seguin draft. Nobody. We were suppose to have been giving them between 7-14 and the next year maybe higher.

It's over we got a top 10 pt getter why complain? He is Elite.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Can I vote for Peddie? I don't think some realize how awful this man was. He was the puppeteer. Literally.

 

[achtungbaby]

Can I vote for Peddie? I don't think some realize how awful this man was. He was the puppeteer. Literally.

Good call. Hopefully Tim isn't Dick Part 2.

 

[thewave]

Gotta say I hate anytime a major corporation or consortium get their hands on a professional sports team.

They are the first to send a corporate soldier into the GMs office and say we feel we can market say, Clarkson and our analysts believe he will generate x$ in merchandise etc etc etc.

When did we last have success? Stavros, because he loved hockey and his money unfortunately his business did not fair so well but the team was pretty good.

 

[DD03]

How the hell can people say Clarkson is the worst move any of those GMs made when there's a player on our arch rival who eliminated us from the playoffs pretty much by himself? Rask is unbelievable and could've been huge for the Leafs the past 7 years without a goalie until we got a Bernier.

Some of you people are unreal and really hate Burke and Nonis more then actually answering the question.

The trades JFJ made pushed us back farther then anything. Trading Rask was unbelievably stupid, ownership or not. He made those calls to Boston and other places not ownership. I'm sure he could've gotten a better deal for Pogge if he would've shopped him. What a joke.

 

[e84*]

Burke shouldn't even be in the discussion because of the JVR trade... he literally turned turd into gold with that one... I'm still wondering what he said to the Philly GM to make that one happen.

 

[DD03]

Burke shouldn't even be in the discussion because of the JVR trade... he literally turned turd into gold with that one... I'm still wondering what he said to the Philly GM to make that one happen.

How about getting rid of Kaberle? Or getting stuff for Antropov and Ponikarovsky? With what Burke had when he got here, to say he was the worst is silliness. People put their opinion about him before the work he did here.

The only thing JFJ did right was bring the Marlies back to Toronto.

 

[Myke]

Any time a GM trades away the future best goalie in the NHL they get chosen as worst GM.