Which active players do you believe are first-ballot HOF?

[FrozenJagrt]

But it took Iginla 200 more games to score less points than Turgeon.

Coincidence that the healthy majority of Turgeon's best seasons came during the highest scoring period in history?

 

[Kale Hulls]

Coincidence that the healthy majority of Turgeon's best seasons came during the highest scoring period in history?

You can argue that all you want, but the numbers don't lie.

 

[GreatGonzo]

But it took Iginla 200 more games to score less points than Turgeon.

And?....Turgeron played in a much higher scoring era.

You can argue that all you want, but the numbers don't lie.

Well he's stating a fact. Because like you said, the numbers don't lie....

 

[Binister]

: Price is the most overrated player ever lived. And btw I am enjoying his play at the moment Price has had the most dominant team in front of him in Olympics. He barely had to make any difficult save. Also Price has not been that good in playoffs. Lundqvist has been much more consistent and a much better playoff performer.

Also people need to understand that Lundqvist has had crappy defences in front of him for many years. The reason people overrate those defences is because Lundqvist has bailed them out many times. This is like the first year Lundqvist has not been playing that good and people point out now that Rangers defence is not good. But glad to see Lundqvist gotten back on track recently.

IMO Price has not proved anything yet. He played 5 games in olympics 2014 for the team that played defence very well and their roster was out of this galaxy. Also he has had few good seasons but he has also had few bad seasons. His overall resume is not that good yet and we will see if it ever will be with his play going downhill and luck returning back to normal.

Yes and it's very easy to give some extra salt for him with that Habs logo

 

[Ivo]

You can argue that all you want, but the numbers don't lie.

They don't lie, but they sure do mislead when you just look at raw totals. Or do you think Crosby would have been an average first line forward in the early 90s? He is currently on pace for 95 points, which would put him 39th in league scoring in 1993. You know, numbers don't lie.

 

[Binister]

League wide conspiracy? It's a silly list made by silly people who went off an almost entirely media based opinion. It's bad enough that Toews is on it, but he's in front of guys like Sakic....but yes...please put all your stock into the list and treat it like historical evidence of Toews greatness

It can be debated and it has been. There's a reason why a MAJORITY of people here think the list is complete BS. You just love the list and it signifies everything you hope Toews would be, except it actually makes him that much more overrated, sorry to break it to you.

Why does he belong on that list? ESPECIALLY over the likes of Thornton and Malkin? What has he done to deserve it? Win 3 cups? By that standard the list should be a whole lot bigger.

Well that means Kris Draper and Claude Lemieux are top 100 players, I mean they won THE award to win 4 times each.....oh but I don't see them on the list. Weird. Maybe it's because the cup isn't the best trophy to base an individual off of.
Hart, Art Ross, Ted Lindsay>>Stanley cup.


You can define those 3 as "generational" but there is nothing generational about them. Enjoy that fantasy world of yours and please keep believing silly media lists made by people who obviously don't know hockey. Once again, your the minority. It must be awfully lonely, but if you can make it work

Yeah and for example Esa Tikkanen won five cups and in two teams why isn't he in TOP 100?

 

[Kale Hulls]

They don't lie, but they sure do mislead when you just look at raw totals. Or do you think Crosby would have been an average first line forward in the early 90s? He is currently on pace for 95 points, which would put him 39th in league scoring in 1993. You know, numbers don't lie.

Good to know that NHL players only play for one season and it can move from anywhere to anywhere.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

Jagr
Malkin
Crosby
Ovechkin
Thornton

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

League wide conspiracy? It's a silly list made by silly people who went off an almost entirely media based opinion. It's bad enough that Toews is on it, but he's in front of guys like Sakic....but yes...please put all your stock into the list and treat it like historical evidence of Toews greatness

It can be debated and it has been. There's a reason why a MAJORITY of people here think the list is complete BS. You just love the list and it signifies everything you hope Toews would be, except it actually makes him that much more overrated, sorry to break it to you.

Why does he belong on that list? ESPECIALLY over the likes of Thornton and Malkin? What has he done to deserve it? Win 3 cups? By that standard the list should be a whole lot bigger.

Well that means Kris Draper and Claude Lemieux are top 100 players, I mean they won THE award to win 4 times each.....oh but I don't see them on the list. Weird. Maybe it's because the cup isn't the best trophy to base an individual off of.
Hart, Art Ross, Ted Lindsay>>Stanley cup.


You can define those 3 as "generational" but there is nothing generational about them. Enjoy that fantasy world of yours and please keep believing silly media lists made by people who obviously don't know hockey. Once again, your the minority. It must be awfully lonely, but if you can make it work

So, people who have actually worked for the NHL, writers who have followed NHL teams, and actual NHL executives are now " silly people", compared to people who post on this forum?

Scotty Bowman's opinion is less then some random on HFBs...

Please, don't stop now. The big guns (Kris Draper, Claude Lemieux) are starting to come out.

Your whole defense is based on public opinion compared to those who actually work for the NHL in some context. Who should people believe has a little more credence?

A fan? Or an executive? It's actually an easy answer but rest assured it's the right answer at the same time. I get it. I have no problem with those saying Toews doesn't belong. It's not going to change the fact he's on the list and, imo, he deserves to be there. I am also a firm believer in leaving Malkin off the list only because he hasn't proven enough during the playoffs with a resume seven years in between Cup wins while Toews had a hand in three in six years. Everybody likes to point out at what Toews hasn't done, yet glosses over three Cups in six years like that's an easy accomplishment considering the salary cap structure and how many teams he's had to captain that were rebuilt on the fly. If it was easy, there would be more teams doing it.

It isn't. There's a myriad of excuses as to why Toews is nothing but a piece to a machine yet Hawks fans know first hand, three times, he's what makes the machine go. And everybody can type out yet another diluted meme as to why Toews doesn't belong until their finger tips are bruised.

He's still on the list. Unless of course, the opinions here have the power over the silly people who put him on it to take him off. When that day comes, rest assured, I will stop posting here. (Thumbs up)

 

[Ogrezilla]

Malkin being off the list is really enough to show that it is at best a flawed list. Jagr, Crosby, and Ovechkin are the only active players with more impressive careers than him.

 

[GreatGonzo]

So, people who have actually worked for the NHL, writers who have followed NHL teams, and actual NHL executives are now " silly people", compared to people who post on this forum? ��������

Scotty Bowman's opinion is less then some random on HFBs...������

Please, don't stop now. The big guns (Kris Draper, Claude Lemieux) are starting to come out.

Your whole defense is based on public opinion compared to those who actually work for the NHL in some context. Who should people believe has a little more credence?

A fan? Or an executive? It's actually an easy answer but rest assured it's the right answer at the same time. I get it. I have no problem with those saying Toews doesn't belong. It's not going to change the fact he's on the list and, imo, he deserves to be there. I am also a firm believer in leaving Malkin off the list only because he hasn't proven enough during the playoffs with a resume seven years in between Cup wins while Toews had a hand in three in six years. Everybody likes to point out at what Toews hasn't done, yet glosses over three Cups in six years like that's an easy accomplishment considering the salary cap structure and how many teams he's had to captain that were rebuilt on the fly. If it was easy, there would be more teams doing it.

It isn't. There's a myriad of excuses as to why Toews is nothing but a piece to a machine yet Hawks fans know first hand, three times, he's what makes the machine go. And everybody can type out yet another diluted meme as to why Toews doesn't belong until their finger tips are bruised.

He's still on the list. Unless of course, the opinions here have the power over the silly people who put him on it to take him off. When that day comes, rest assured, I will stop posting here. (Thumbs up)

You named ONE person out of this whole group of "experts." You know who is also on that same
List? Mike milbury....unless you also think his opinion should be held to a higher standard

You used the cup argument not me. Your the one who said that Toews deserves to be there because he has won THE highest honor in hockey(instead of those "secondary" awards ) yet both Draper and Lemieux have done the same....then all of a sudden, it's an invalid argument? Maybe pick a battle worth winning instead of just going off of cups.

Wait, wait....Malkin HASNT proven enough in the playoffs to be on the list? Did I seriously read that right?...
2 cups
Conn smythe
129 points in 124 playoff games.
THAT Malkin? God your more up in the clouds than I thought. Malkin has Toews playoffs matches ALONG with a better regular season resume. There is no excuse for having him off the list, your only reasoning is that Toews has more cups, and if that's the case, Draper and Lemieux say hello.

The fact that you think Toews 3 cups in 6 years is more proven than Malkins 2 cups in 8 says a lot of about your opinion and overall knowledge of the game, and the simple fact that you don't know squat.

Your a cup counter and that's ok, but be consistent and not so close minded. Cups are amazing, but there was 20 something OTHER players that get their names on the cup besides the number one center. The players aren't categorized by value or contribution. Draper has his name on the cup 4 times. It doesn't matter if he wa a bottom 6 guy, he has his name on the same trophy as Gretzky, Lemieux, and yes...even Toews. He isn't put in a specific area for "bottom 6 players." His cups aren't less valuable than Toews.

Stop thinking that a players value is based on how many cups he has won and within what time frame . Malkin has been named the best center in the NHL 3 times and the best player(or most valuable) once, along with being the best point producer twice in the regular season and once in the playoffs.....all features your great Toews has never accomplished. And having one more cup or being captain doesn't make up for any of that

Enjoy your denial.

 

[Siddi]

I am also a firm believer in leaving Malkin off the list only because he hasn't proven enough during the playoffs

This has to be a bad joke! Malkin not a proven playoff performer? Conn Smythe winner, over 1 PPG in the playoffs and 2 Cups. Are you for real?

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

You named ONE person out of this whole group of "experts." You know who is also on that same
List? Mike milbury....unless you also think his opinion should be held to a higher standard

So....Your naming one person too?


I would love to compare Mike Milburys resume next to anybody's here on this forum and see who has a more impressive career hockey wise. Putting it at that perspective suddenly, in this day an age of arm chair NHL17 be a GM mode connoisseurs, things get a bit cloudy credibility wise for the white knighted forum GMs proclaiming their opinion has more merit then those who have been around the sport for decades, the "silly little people" group which is now being picked and chosen.

Draper and Lemieux? How many Cups have they won during the salary Cap era compared to Toews and I'll even let those two players combine their Cups.

Draper/Lemieux =1
Toews=3

And? You would be better off using Kunitz and Williams as comparable players and even then, the gap in talent level from Toews compared to those guys is even more massive.

As for Malkin/Toews, who has the better playoff resume? Both started at around the same time. (Hint- one has more Cups)

Now, you have every right to debate such things, but, again, while your strong in your beliefs, it hasn't done anything to change the top 100 list that was, again, voted on by "silly little people" such as Scotty Bowman, whom actually have an opinion that matters compared to those of us who have the luxury of posting on internet forums. "Denial", they say, is a river in Egypt.

 

[kingsholygrail]

how isn't Malkin with those guys? And why will there be so few first ballot guys going forward?

The question is first ballot. I don't think Malkin gets in first ballot(whether that's deserving or not). He tends to skate in Crosby's shadow and I can see him being left off before Crosby gets in.

 

[GreatGonzo]

So....Your naming one person too?


I would love to compare Mike Milburys resume next to anybody's here on this forum and see who has a more impressive career hockey wise. Putting it at that perspective suddenly, in this day an age of arm chair NHL17 be a GM mode connoisseurs, things get a bit cloudy credibility wise for the white knighted forum GMs proclaiming their opinion has more merit then those who have been around the sport for decades, the "silly little people" group which is now being picked and chosen.

Draper and Lemieux? How many Cups have they won during the salary Cap era compared to Toews and I'll even let those two players combine their Cups.

Draper/Lemieux =1
Toews=3

And? You would be better off using Kunitz and Williams as comparable players and even then, the gap in talent level from Toews compared to those guys is even more massive.

As for Malkin/Toews, who has the better playoff resume? Both started at around the same time. (Hint- one has more Cups)

Now, you have every right to debate such things, but, again, while your strong in your beliefs, it hasn't done anything to change the top 100 list that was, again, voted on by "silly little people" such as Scotty Bowman, whom actually have an opinion that matters compared to those of us who have the luxury of posting on internet forums. "Denial", they say, is a river in Egypt.

Milburys whole NHL career in and out of the rink has been one long running joke. He was a bad player, a terrible GM, coach, and even analysts, who's claim to fame is beating a fan with a shoe....if you want to hold that guys opinion high to further pump Toews tires, then by all means

Why only salary cap era? Why are you moving the goal posts? Maybe to further your agenda? I think so.

Fact is, Lemieux and Draper have 4 cups....1 more than Toews. And by your standards, they should receive more recognition because they have won the most valuable award there is to win in hockey. I'm
Not setting the standards, I'm just going off of what you have said.

Does it matter if the talent level is different? They won 3 cups each. Anything and everything else shouldn't matter. They won at hockey. Am I right?

You sunk your own ship buddy with your Malkin comments and are just further showing your lack of hockey. I would say 129 points in 124 games with an epic conn smythe run and 2 solid cup runs has a great argument for being better than Toews....your the one that said he hasn't "proven enough" despite his playoff resume being arguably better. Good job

You keep saying that the people that made the list are credible, yet can only name ONE person who appears to have a solid argument. Anyone else?....

 

[NickLidstrom]

Crosby
Malkin
Ovechkin
Thornton
Jagr
Iginla
Lundqvist
Keith
Kane
Karlsson

Don't see the Sedin's getting in.
Zetterberg won't be first ballot.
Will depend on draft class for Chara.

 

[sdf]

Some people don't know what "first-ballot" means...

i one of them

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

So, people who have actually worked for the NHL, writers who have followed NHL teams, and actual NHL executives are now " silly people", compared to people who post on this forum?

Scotty Bowman's opinion is less then some random on HFBs...

Please, don't stop now. The big guns (Kris Draper, Claude Lemieux) are starting to come out.

Your whole defense is based on public opinion compared to those who actually work for the NHL in some context. Who should people believe has a little more credence?

A fan? Or an executive? It's actually an easy answer but rest assured it's the right answer at the same time. I get it. I have no problem with those saying Toews doesn't belong. It's not going to change the fact he's on the list and, imo, he deserves to be there. I am also a firm believer in leaving Malkin off the list only because he hasn't proven enough during the playoffs with a resume seven years in between Cup wins while Toews had a hand in three in six years. Everybody likes to point out at what Toews hasn't done, yet glosses over three Cups in six years like that's an easy accomplishment considering the salary cap structure and how many teams he's had to captain that were rebuilt on the fly. If it was easy, there would be more teams doing it.

It isn't. There's a myriad of excuses as to why Toews is nothing but a piece to a machine yet Hawks fans know first hand, three times, he's what makes the machine go. And everybody can type out yet another diluted meme as to why Toews doesn't belong until their finger tips are bruised.

He's still on the list. Unless of course, the opinions here have the power over the silly people who put him on it to take him off. When that day comes, rest assured, I will stop posting here. (Thumbs up)

Same scotty Bowman who ranked 4 players ahead of Gretzky, Neely ahead of Lindros, Roy outside the top 30 Canadian players? Yeah, his opinion means SO MUCH.

Toews is a 60pt C who plays good defense. There's a reason he's never been close to any individual award, whether it's hard stats, media voted or peer voted. It's because he's not that good. Who cares if he's on some random NHL list on their website? Yeah, it's a fact but nobody has to agree with it. It also says on the NHL website that Mike Gartner has more goals than Lemieux, so I guess he's a better goal scorer? It's fact and it's on the NHL website after all..

 

[Acetylene]

Crosby
Malkin
Ovechkin
Thornton
Jagr
Iginla
Lundqvist
Keith
Kane
Karlsson

Don't see the Sedin's getting in.
Zetterberg won't be first ballot.
Will depend on draft class for Chara.

While I agree with your list, I like to hear reasoning for the bolded part. You don't think they will be "First ballot", or just not inducted at all? Art Ross winners, gold medalists and consistent regular season producers. Cup finalists, over 1000 points each when it's all said and done, and of course the Twin Factor. They are slam dunk HOF:ers IMHO. "First ballot" is another thing though, that depends on the competition that given year.

 

[Dicky113]

Look at this:



See it now?

That ranking system is hilarious. Why wouldn't a fifth place vote be worth the same as a first?

 

[Ogrezilla]

The question is first ballot. I don't think Malkin gets in first ballot(whether that's deserving or not). He tends to skate in Crosby's shadow and I can see him being left off before Crosby gets in.

If every hockey player in the world retired today, there aren't 4 players more deserving of the HoF than Malkin. If he isn't first ballot, the HoF is a joke.

 

[trentmccleary]

... Lundqvist who has been top 6 in Vezina voting 9 times (shows his consistency )top 3 five times, has had 10+ great seasons and a .921 career playoff SV% is borderline....OK THEN

This. Lundqvist is a sure thing. He's basically got the Vezina voting record that Chara does for the Norris.

Jamie Benn... is far enough into the Jarome Iginla career path that he'll probably be a 1st ballot guy too. He's also got time to be more successful in some respects than Iginla was throughout his career.

Toews? ... I just shake my head. Makes a top-100 list of all time. Wow. Where was Rod Brind'amour? It's amazing how much putting on a Team Canada Jersey can elevate a player.

 

[Ivo]

That ranking system is hilarious. Why wouldn't a fifth place vote be worth the same as a first?

It's not a ranking system. It just shows how many times a Dman has been voted top-5 at the position. What it shows is who has been consistently elite for a very long time, but of course it does not mean that a player higher on the list was necessarily better than a player who is below him. But, the fact that only 5 players in history have more top-5 Norris finishes than Chara clearly shows that he is easily a first ballot Hall of Famer.

But, if top-5 seems not elite enough, we can also look at top-4 finishes (still only 5 players with more than Chara), or top-3 finishes (only 4 players have more of those than Chara).

 

[The Jones Zone]

Jagr
Malkin
Crosby
Ovechkin

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

i would love to know who else would be on the ballot to stop Malkin from getting in, since some of you are so convinced he isn't a first ballot player