Where would you rather the Montreal Canadiens finish this year? (Part 2)

[Vachon23]

a bit ?

do you believe, like @Vachon23 does, that the plan was to trade Pacioretty to Vegas all along ?

The plan was to maximize the value of Pacioretty and that’s what he did ! Why would the plan be to trade Pac only to Vegas ??

 

[bobholly39]

a bit ?

do you believe, like @Vachon23 does, that the plan was to trade Pacioretty to Vegas all along ?

What question is being avoided? I dont even understand what you mean.

Can you elaborate and ask a more detailed question and then I'll answer.

Pacioretty had been shopped since at least the draft. 3-4months. Its likely that Vegas didnt randomly call up for the first time the day before to make a trade offer. So if i had to guess id say Vegas expressed interest from the start and Habs werent happy with the offer and back and forth ensued.

Who knows? Maybe Vegas made that exact offer 3 months prior and Bergevin sat on it hoping for more before finally agreeing. Or maybe Vegas got desparate and gave a really high offer last minute. Or maybe both teams really only started seriously talking trade towards the last minute and found an agreement quickly.

Why does it matter? All i care about is that the trade turned out great on many fronts for us. Im happy to give Bergevin credit for it.

 

[ECWHSWI]

What question is being avoided? I dont even understand what you mean.

Can you elaborate and ask a more detailed question and then I'll answer.

Pacioretty had been shopped since at least the draft. 3-4months. Its likely that Vegas didnt randomly call up for the first time the day before to make a trade offer. So if i had to guess id say Vegas expressed interest from the start and Habs werent happy with the offer and back and forth ensued.

Who knows? Maybe Vegas made that exact offer 3 months prior and Bergevin sat on it hoping for more before finally agreeing. Or maybe Vegas got desparate and gave a really high offer last minute. Or maybe both teams really only started seriously talking trade towards the last minute and found an agreement quickly.

Why does it matter? All i care about is that the trade turned out great on many fronts for us. Im happy to give Bergevin credit for it.

there's nothing to elaborate, the question is pretty clear

do you believe it's been Bergevin plan from the beginning to trade Pacioretty to Vegas ?
(meaning, you do not believe one bit the MANY reports of a Pacioretty trade to L.A.)

 

[ECWHSWI]

The plan was to maximize the value of Pacioretty and that’s what he did ! Why would the plan be to trade Pac only to Vegas ??

you are not awnsering the question.

Do you believe it was Bergevin plan to trade Pacioretty to Vegas, from the beginning ?

 

[Vachon23]

you are not awnsering the question.

Do you believe it was Bergevin plan to trade Pacioretty to Vegas, from the beginning ?

Of course not why would it be ?

 

[ECWHSWI]

since, you're just chickening out, I'll rephrase just for ya @Vachon23


why was Pacioretty traded to Vegas and not L.A. ??

 

[ECWHSWI]

Of course not why would it be ?

and lemme guess, you do not remember a Pacioretty trade to L.A. being in the works...

 

[Vachon23]

and lemme guess, you do not remember a Pacioretty trade to L.A. being in the works...

Yes and ?

 

[ECWHSWI]

Yes and ?

remember why the trade to L.A. did not work ?

 

[Vachon23]

remember why the trade to L.A. did not work ?

Because PAC didn’t want to sign there

 

[ECWHSWI]

Because PAC didn’t want to sign there

so, the person responsible for Pacioretty not being a King this season is NOT Bergevin ? is that what you are saying right now ?


and just so we're clear, I'll ask, again : was the Pacioretty to Vegas trade what Bergevin has planned ? ?

 

[Vachon23]

so, the person responsible for Pacioretty not being a King this season is NOT Bergevin ? is that what you are saying right now ?


and just so we're clear, I'll ask, again : was the Pacioretty to Vegas trade what Bergevin has planned ? ?

But what is the point ?

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Cakgary is doing great
Carolina made huge move (so IF they make the PO)
NYI is doing great after losing Tavares
Buffalo did a lot, same as Carolina, if they make the PO.
Vegas, signed Stastny and traded for Pacioretty, they're in the PO after a horrible start

and some GM could be added to the list, or removed, depending on what they do till TDL and how their team perform (10 days ago we were barely in the PO now we could be 2nd in div at the AS break)

They should make a second trophy for GMs. The Marc Bergevin trophy, which marks the best annual attempt at climbing out of a self-created **** pile.

 

[BaseballCoach]

But what is the point ?

That there was a large element of luck in the Pacioretty trade and the trade result.

 

[BaseballCoach]

doesn't really matter if we have a better pick then leafs or nashville since they have better teams then we do.

Maybe, but by how much? In Toronto's case in particular, is their three or four point lead going to sustain the losses on their blueline, the seemingly necessary sacrifice of one more talented player at F, AND the worse pick than Montreal if they finish higher?

Do folks realize that the Habs' record against the 15 other playoff teams so far is 16-8-2?

By team:

• 0-2-0 vs TBL
• 2-0-0- vs CGY
• no games vs WPG
• 0-1-0 vs SJS
• 0-0-1 vs TOR
• 2-0-0- vs NYI
• 0-1-0- vs NSH
• 2-0-0- vs VGK
• 1-0-0 vs CBJ
• 1-0-1 vs WSH
• 2-2-0 vs BOS
• 2-0-0 vs PIT
• 1-1-0 vs COL
• 1-1-0- vs DAL
• 2-0-0 vs VAN

 

[Kriss E]

I know it's a running joke for a lot of you around here but....it's true. Compete well enough in the season to make the playoffs, get hot at the right time, especially if you have a super hot goalie to ride and anything is possible.

It's not the preferred path. I'd rather we have a core like Pitt or Washington whose expected to compete and be a top contender every year - this maximizes our odds of winning 1, or more cup. We're obviously not there yet, and not even for sure on the path to get there. But in the meantime, i like our game this season, and if we can qualify for the playoffs and especially if Price can continue playing as well as he is - i think we can make some noise in the playoffs.

Carey Price is a big game goalie who wants to win. Since his stellar play in the olympics, his nhl playoff record is actually really good.

2014 he was playing great, got us to round 3, but injury so couldn't seal the deal.
2015 We got to round 2 and lost to Tampa who went to the final. I don't remember the round 2 Tampa series off hand - his stats look great in round 1 (Ott), less so in round 2.
2017 - Price was really good in the playoffs. 933 sv%. I know Lundqvist played even slightly better somehow - but this was mostly about habs not being able to score, it's not on Price.

I think if we make it to the playoffs with a team that can score relatively well (and we've done good so far this year) - Price is due to have a very strong showing. He really wants to win.

Is it really just a running joke? Look at the winning teams over the past 30 years +..how many were bubble teams?

 

[BaseballCoach]

Is it really just a running joke? Look at the winning teams over the past 30 years +..how many were bubble teams?

Looking at post-lockout, regular season ranking of the cup winner and finalist FOLLOWED BY their results the year before:

2018: 6,5 and R2, not in league
2017: 2,16 and C,R2
2016: 4,11 and R1,23rd
2015: 7,5 and R3,R1
2014: 10,12 and R3,R2
2013: 1,5 and R1,R1
2012: 13,9 and R1,23rd
2011: 7,1 and R2,R2
2010: 3,18 and R3,R1
2009: 8,3 and F,C
2008: 1,5 and R3,R1
2007: 4,9 and R3,R2
2006: 4,14 and 23rd,17th

In 13 years, a team from the bottom half of the playoff teams (9+) made it to the finals 9 times versus 17 times the finalists were from the top 8 teams to get in. That's decent odds for the "bubble teams".

What's also interesting is the number of times a team that either lost in the first round or was out of the playoffs but not bottom-5 made it to the Cup finals the next year: 12 times in 13 years that a so-called no man's land team went straight to the Cup finals the next year, LOL.

 

[Paddyjack]

Is it really just a running joke? Look at the winning teams over the past 30 years +..how many were bubble teams?

On the other hand, what is exactly a bubble team this year? When I look at the playoff picture this morning, 7 of 8 teams are between 58 and 60 pts....

 

[BaseballCoach]

On the other hand, what is exactly a bubble team this year? When I look at the playoff picture this morning, 7 of 8 teams are between 58 and 60 pts....

It's weird right now. In the East there is a whole bunch of teams huddled around 59 points and in the West a whole bunch huddled around 50 points.

 

[scrubadam]

On the other hand, what is exactly a bubble team this year? When I look at the playoff picture this morning, 7 of 8 teams are between 58 and 60 pts....

seriously every team is a bubble team in the east outside of TB.

 

[BaseballCoach]

seriously every team is a bubble team in the east outside of TB.

How can Toronto be a bubble team? They are 1000 times better than Montreal. Their hot-starting forwards would never cool down like ours; their weaknesses on D would never hurt them like ours; and if the two teams were to meet in the playoffs, the Leafs would be virtually awarded the win without even playing the games, that's how awesome they are.

Montreal has a garbage record of 16-8-2 against playoff teams, they should not even be allowed into the playoffs.

Their goalie is not an elite player, and any wins he can help generate don't count.

Their #1D is garbage, just slaps pucks and crosschecks a few guys, can't play hockey or more importantly do spinoramas and entertain fans, and none of their forwards have scored a Stanley Cup winning goal yet.

 

[scrubadam]

Now its luck to discredit, talk about grasping at straws.

So can I say that bad luck is behind everyone of MB's bad moves? What bad luck that he signed Alzner amrite? Alzner was a top 4 D on a perenial top team, talk about bad luck that he went to crap.

And it was bad luck that Radu decided to chose Dallas over MTL for his contract. It was also bad luck that Drouin had a bad season last year. Bad luck that Price stunk out the joint.

If every good move is just luck, well then every bad move is bad luck.

How about the bad luck that CBJ took PLD at number 3 which torpedoed the PK to EDM deal that would of seen the habs get the 4th pick and we would have a 1C right now.

 

[scrubadam]

How can Toronto be a bubble team? They are 1000 times better than Montreal. Their hot-starting forwards would never cool down like ours; their weaknesses on D would never hurt them like ours; and if the two teams were to meet in the playoffs, the Leafs would be virtually awarded the win without even playing the games, that's how awesome they are.

Montreal has a garbage record of 16-8-2 against playoff teams, they should not even be allowed into the playoffs.

We might have a 16-8-2 record but thats misleading since wins for the habs against playoff teams only count if we score 10 goals and they score -5 goals, so we are actually 0-26 against playoff teams

 

[BaseballCoach]

We might have a 16-8-2 record but thats misleading since wins for the habs against playoff teams only count if we score 10 goals and they score -5 goals, so we are actually 0-26 against playoff teams

The eight losses in regulation time show how bad the team is. 480 minutes of futility right there.

Even in the games where the league awarded us two points, in EVERY CASE the Habs were very lucky because they gave up WAYYY more shots than the number of goals we scored. Fortunately our goalkeepers were able to get a piece of a lot of the shot attempts, and even more fortuitously, a large number outright missed their targets.

 

[Perrah]

Looking at post-lockout, regular season ranking of the cup winner and finalist FOLLOWED BY their results the year before:

2018: 6,5 and R2, not in league
2017: 2,16 and C,R2
2016: 4,11 and R1,23rd
2015: 7,5 and R3,R1
2014: 10,12 and R3,R2
2013: 1,5 and R3,23rd
2012: 13,9 and R1,R1
2011: 7,1 and R2,R2
2010: 3,18 and R3,R1
2009: 8,3 and F,C
2008: 1,5 and R3,R1
2007: 4,9 and R3,R2
2006: 4,14 and 23rd,17th

In 13 years, a team from the bottom half of the playoff teams (9+) made it to the finals 9 times versus 17 times the finalists were from the top 8 teams to get in. That's decent odds for the "bubble teams".

What's also interesting is the number of times a team that either lost in the first round or was out of the playoffs but not bottom-5 made it to the Cup finals the next year: 11 times in 13 years that a so-called no man's land team went straight to the Cup finals the next year, LOL.

You need a lot more context to these numbers. 2013 info is wrong. Bruins and Blackhawks were 7th and 10th in 2012 and were both 100+ point teams that season as well.

2016 San Jose is one of your non playoff teams to make the finals and had made the playoffs every season since 2003-04 prior to that one season. Also fired their coach and traded for Martin Jones going from 2014-15 to 2015-16. Missed playoffs by 8 points.

New Jersey is the true miracle but guess what they missed the playoffs prior to 2011-12 and missed the playoffs every year after until 2017-18 Had a #1 over all pick and stealing Taylor Hall.

That's just what jumps out without doing much digging.