Where would you rather the Montreal Canadiens finish this year? (Part 2)

[Deebs]

We're too good of a team for a Top 10 pick imo, so I'd like us to keep working our butts off and try to make the playoffs. I don't think we will because the chances are we'll get another significant injury or two and fall short. I think we'll pick somewhere around 11-15.

 

[montreal]

We're too good of a team for a Top 10 pick imo, so I'd like us to keep working our butts off and try to make the playoffs. I don't think we will because the chances are we'll get another significant injury or two and fall short. I think we'll pick somewhere around 11-15.

going into the season I had us picking around 9th-12th although the year before I had us making the playoffs and we had our 2nd worst 82 game season in our history. The schedule looks like it gets tougher in '19 but I'm certainly leaning towards us picking after 12th now. I don't see them hanging with boston, the sabers are still a question mark as to go from worst to being a good team is a big jump for one year. We have NYI to contend with, but not much else as the wings, sens, NJ, look like they will be the bottom teams in the east and I don't see NYR staying close as I assume they will sell off assets by the deadline to get more top picks again.

To me it's highly troubling where this organization is headed, I just don't see how we can compete with the likes of TB, leafs, that have so much firepower. Even if we win tonight, I'm not sold on being able to beat them in a playoff series and losing to the leafs would suck so badly as we would never hear the end of it and get another middle of the 1st round pick.

 

[BaseballCoach]

going into the season I had us picking around 9th-12th although the year before I had us making the playoffs and we had our 2nd worst 82 game season in our history. The schedule looks like it gets tougher in '19 but I'm certainly leaning towards us picking after 12th now. I don't see them hanging with boston, the Sabres are still a question mark as to go from worst to being a good team is a big jump for one year. We have NYI to contend with, but not much else as the wings, sens, NJ, look like they will be the bottom teams in the east and I don't see NYR staying close as I assume they will sell off assets by the deadline to get more top picks again.

To me it's highly troubling where this organization is headed, I just don't see how we can compete with the likes of TB, leafs, that have so much firepower. Even if we win tonight, I'm not sold on being able to beat them in a playoff series and losing to the leafs would suck so badly as we would never hear the end of it and get another middle of the 1st round pick.

So we get a middle of the first round pick. Not crying about it. It's better than Toronto will get, or Nashville, for instance. And our guys will get better as they gain experience plus we have no one of importance turning UFA for the next two summers. We also have three top prospects turning pro next year, and unlike Toronto, we have a TON of cap space to improve the club.

I'm not worried if we make the playoffs other than the one real problem that the GM will likely stay on.

 

[Scriptor]

going into the season I had us picking around 9th-12th although the year before I had us making the playoffs and we had our 2nd worst 82 game season in our history. The schedule looks like it gets tougher in '19 but I'm certainly leaning towards us picking after 12th now. I don't see them hanging with boston, the Sabres are still a question mark as to go from worst to being a good team is a big jump for one year. We have NYI to contend with, but not much else as the wings, sens, NJ, look like they will be the bottom teams in the east and I don't see NYR staying close as I assume they will sell off assets by the deadline to get more top picks again.

To me it's highly troubling where this organization is headed, I just don't see how we can compete with the likes of TB, leafs, that have so much firepower. Even if we win tonight, I'm not sold on being able to beat them in a playoff series and losing to the leafs would suck so badly as we would never hear the end of it and get another middle of the 1st round pick.

A little over-reaction on your part, IMO, or, rather, overstating the situation.

MON has solid prospects still coming up through the ranks, even if there is no Crosby, Matthews or McDavid quality player in that lot.

The team is markedly younger than in past incarnations.

Still need to get better on D, but I think that we can apply an offense based on quality depth even of we don't have superstar power in the lineup for the offense.

More moves need to be done, but the roster is not a static thing. Acting like it won't change and this is the team we will be stuck with over the next 10 years sure paints a glum picture. It won't be, though...

 

[montreal]

So we get a middle of the first round pick. Not crying about it. It's better than Toronto will get, or Nashville, for instance. And our guys will get better as they gain experience plus we have no one of importance turning UFA for the next two summers. We also have three top prospects turning pro next year, and unlike Toronto, we have a TON of cap space to improve the club.

I'm not worried if we make the playoffs other than the one real problem that the GM will likely stay on.

doesn't really matter if we have a better pick then leafs or nashville since they have better teams then we do. We'll see what MB does with the cap space, he's had a lot the past few years and UFA's don't often seem to like to sign with us aside from a few. The hope is going to have to be the prospects coming up and that we develop them better then we have been in the past.

Having MB/Molson/CJ all keeping their jobs is depressing.

A little over-reaction on your part, IMO, or, rather, overstating the situation.

MON has solid prospects still coming up through the ranks, even if there is no Crosby, Matthews or McDavid quality player in that lot.

The team is markedly younger than in past incarnations.

Still need to get better on D, but I think that we can apply an offense based on quality depth even of we don't have superstar power in the lineup for the offense.

More moves need to be done, but the roster is not a static thing. Acting like it won't change and this is the team we will be stuck with over the next 10 years sure paints a glum picture. It won't be, though...

The roster can and will change but how do we compete with Matthews, JT, Marner, etc... Kurcherov etc... To beat top teams in the playoffs is going to be hard unless the youth takes some big steps forward. But we'll see what happens when April gets here.

 

[Scriptor]

doesn't really matter if we have a better pick then leafs or nashville since they have better teams then we do. We'll see what MB does with the cap space, he's had a lot the past few years and UFA's don't often seem to like to sign with us aside from a few. The hope is going to have to be the prospects coming up and that we develop them better then we have been in the past.

Having MB/Molson/CJ all keeping their jobs is depressing.



The roster can and will change but how do we compete with Matthews, JT, Marner, etc... Kurcherov etc... To beat top teams in the playoffs is going to be hard unless the youth takes some big steps forward. But we'll see what happens when April gets here.

The tabs roster won't be where it needs to be this year. Not next year. Not the year after. Maybe the following year. If not, for sure, the one after.

That leaves time for players like Poehling, Suzuki, Brook and, even, Romanov, to have gained some experience at the NHL level. It leaves time for a player like Kotkaniemi to have filled out and have become more dominant one on one, enabling him to take the next step.

It leaves time for Domi and Drouin to be in or entering their prime while Gallagher and Tatar are still in there prime or near enough to it not to be noticeably on the decline.

Then, we can see how we stack up as more players have either reached their ceiling or not.

Besides, the power houses of today may well not even be in place as they are today at that point and a mature Habs lineup could well be close to the higher echelon team at that point.

MON is not contending during TB's and TOR's current window of opportunity and believing that this window of opportunity for those teams will be eternal would have to be delusional.

I'd be more worried about contending with the likes of a younger BUF team when we are close to ready to contend than I would about teams like TB and TOR which will have lost certain key elements by then, whether because of the cap or because of age.

 

[Tiger Svoboda]

Bergevin had an amazing summer. He deserve credit and more chances to prouve himself. We are on the right track.

 

[habs73]

I have no feel for what the Habs will do for the rest of the year, I think they won't make the playoffs but they will be around the wildcard spots for most of the year. If they don't make it, hopefully we do like the Canes and move from the teens into a lottery position

I mainly just hope that we make no moves for this years playoff chase, any trades we make should be with the idea of the future in mind. Our prospect pool is looking better but it still needs a lot of work, another top flight prospect would be great up front or on defense, we need both really badly..

 

[montreal]

The tabs roster won't be where it needs to be this year. Not next year. Not the year after. Maybe the following year. If not, for sure, the one after.

That leaves time for players like Poehling, Suzuki, Brook and, even, Romanov, to have gained some experience at the NHL level. It leaves time for a player like Kotkaniemi to have filled out and have become more dominant one on one, enabling him to take the next step.

It leaves time for Domi and Drouin to be in or entering their prime while Gallagher and Tatar are still in there prime or near enough to it not to be noticeably on the decline.

Then, we can see how we stack up as more players have either reached their ceiling or not.

Besides, the power houses of today may well not even be in place as they are today at that point and a mature Habs lineup could well be close to the higher echelon team at that point.

MON is not contending during TB's and TOR's current window of opportunity and believing that this window of opportunity for those teams will be eternal would have to be delusional.

I'd be more worried about contending with the likes of a younger BUF team when we are close to ready to contend than I would about teams like TB and TOR which will have lost certain key elements by then, whether because of the cap or because of age.

that's a good point, the problem is how long it takes to be a contender and then how Price/Weber age over that span. If Price holds up then we could be in business for sure, if not then we'll need a replacement and it's highly unlikely that whoever comes in after him would be nearly as effective at least in his prime. That said it would hopefully force management to change of focus of the past where they mostly relied on Price to take us all the way. On the other hand Price is just 31 so for goalies he could have many good years ahead of him if he can stay healthy.

 

[Scintillating10]

4-2 on last road trip. Should have been 5-1 if netminding at all in Tampa. I am hoping we make playoffs. Difference between 8th overall this draft and 18th is not as much as usual.

 

[Kriss E]

The tabs roster won't be where it needs to be this year. Not next year. Not the year after. Maybe the following year. If not, for sure, the one after.

That leaves time for players like Poehling, Suzuki, Brook and, even, Romanov, to have gained some experience at the NHL level. It leaves time for a player like Kotkaniemi to have filled out and have become more dominant one on one, enabling him to take the next step.

It leaves time for Domi and Drouin to be in or entering their prime while Gallagher and Tatar are still in there prime or near enough to it not to be noticeably on the decline.

Then, we can see how we stack up as more players have either reached their ceiling or not.

Besides, the power houses of today may well not even be in place as they are today at that point and a mature Habs lineup could well be close to the higher echelon team at that point.

MON is not contending during TB's and TOR's current window of opportunity and believing that this window of opportunity for those teams will be eternal would have to be delusional.

I'd be more worried about contending with the likes of a younger BUF team when we are close to ready to contend than I would about teams like TB and TOR which will have lost certain key elements by then, whether because of the cap or because of age.

That is fair...
But, as Montreal pointed out, in 4 years...Weber and Price will be older. Also, as excited about the prospects we can be, there is also the very real possibility that most won't become impact players as is the case most of the time.

Another point is, for example, the Leafs as you brought up, we won't be competing against them on their current window. Fair enough, but can you say for sure they won't be able to trade a few pieces to remain a top contender when we also get up there? Just like Chicago was able to move some of their guys and still win cups.
Most of the guys on top are bound to drop at some point. Nobody in the history of the NHL has ever stayed pepertual contenders, so it's fair to say whoever's there now will drop, but will it automatically happen in 3-4 years? We don't know that.
Would you not agree though, that whoever is likely to takeover those big contention spots are likely gonna do it from having the ''new'' Matthews and likes?
The top contenders will have some high elite talent on, and while I am excited about some of our prospects, I don't look at any of them outside maybe Kotka, as an elite candidate.
Now maybe Domi and Drouin raise their game even further next year and prove themselves elite...for now though, I'm not sold.

 

[FrankMTL]

So when will the Montreal Canadiens crash in the standings? We've all been waiting since the first game of the season. We're 41 games into the season and there's no let up in sight. One of the best 5 on 5 scoring teams in the league. Different players contributing each game. Carey Price seems to be heating up. I'm torn as I want this team to do well, but I would love to draft another high profile player. The WJC is helping in that respect at least as we see that we have some promising young players in the system.

These guys bust their asses every match so I can't help but to hope for the unexpected. Anything can happen in the playoffs!

 

[Simarino]

At that point, its almost impossible with get a top 10 pick so might as well make the playoff. I dont know if we’re gonna be a real contender in 3 years or not, but its still a fun time to be a Habs fan, we have a team that is working hard every game, playing an entertaining brand of hockey, a nice prospect pool, and a center line of Kotka-Domi-Suzuki-Poehling-Danaul that have the chance to be the best Habs C-Line since 93 in 2-3 years.

 

[Tyson]

doesn't really matter if we have a better pick then leafs or nashville since they have better teams then we do. We'll see what MB does with the cap space, he's had a lot the past few years and UFA's don't often seem to like to sign with us aside from a few. The hope is going to have to be the prospects coming up and that we develop them better then we have been in the past.

Having MB/Molson/CJ all keeping their jobs is depressing.



The roster can and will change but how do we compete with Matthews, JT, Marner, etc... Kurcherov etc... To beat top teams in the playoffs is going to be hard unless the youth takes some big steps forward. But we'll see what happens when April gets here.

Yes while the Habs have made impressing gains this year they simply don’t have the horses to compete with the upper echelons of the league.

 

[Deebs]

They're playing hard and have bought into what Julien is selling for the most part. As we continue to add talent coming through the pipeline, we'll just keep getting better. Such a resilient group that are very entertaining to watch. Great things ahead.

 

[Kriss E]

So when will the Montreal Canadiens crash in the standings? We've all been waiting since the first game of the season. We're 41 games into the season and there's no let up in sight. One of the best 5 on 5 scoring teams in the league. Different players contributing each game. Carey Price seems to be heating up. I'm torn as I want this team to do well, but I would love to draft another high profile player. The WJC is helping in that respect at least as we see that we have some promising young players in the system.

These guys bust their asses every match so I can't help but to hope for the unexpected. Anything can happen in the playoffs!

Maybe you watched one too many Disney movies growing up, no offense. I mean...it's also possible for you to win lotto 6/49..buy a ticket, anything can happen!
Teams that push for that narrative are only the ones that realistically have close to no chance of winning. It's what the Swiss team probably believes at the WJC. It's true, technically, maybe every team we face in the POs suffers numerous key injuries that turn us into the favorite to win...I mean, again, technically, that's possible.
In no way should this ever been your strategy though, otherwise you will lose 99.9999999% of the time. It's something we have heard in Mtl for how long now? And how many times have we won? Well..none, and where are we now? Oh..right..battling for that last PO spot. Great man, but no, not so great...

We cannot move forward with this poisonous mind set. It's okay to have that mindset come April, when we are in the POs, but we should never have that in mind in the middle of the year as we strategize our best course of action moving forward over the next couple of seasons.

 

[GSP2018]

Just dont finish 8th and lose in 4 games to Tampa please

 

[BaseballCoach]

Yes while the Habs have made impressing gains this year they simply don’t have the horses to compete with the upper echelons of the league.

Of course not, not in one season of rebuilding.

The rebuild must continue. We do have three big prospects coming next year, and Romanov probably the year after. All four are first round equivalent, from today's viewpoint.

And we do have more cap space and budget room than today's contenders.

I think it's too late for us to plan for a super-high pick next year. The team is too good, and the league policy is to give the biggest consolation prizes to the worst of the worst teams.

That's not a bad thing. It means we are partly there.

If only I had faith in our GM, I'd be even more optimistic. With the IdiotGM, I'm always afraid he will pull a bonehead move.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Anything can happen in the playoffs!

Maybe you watched one too many Disney movies growing up, no offense. I mean...it's also possible for you to win lotto 6/49..buy a ticket, anything can happen!
Teams that push for that narrative are only the ones that realistically have close to no chance of winning. It's what the Swiss team probably believes at the WJC. It's true, technically, maybe every team we face in the POs suffers numerous key injuries that turn us into the favorite to win...I mean, again, technically, that's possible.
In no way should this ever been your strategy though, otherwise you will lose 99.9999999% of the time. It's something we have heard in Mtl for how long now? And how many times have we won? Well..none, and where are we now? Oh..right..battling for that last PO spot. Great man, but no, not so great...

We cannot move forward with this poisonous mind set. It's okay to have that mindset come April, when we are in the POs, but we should never have that in mind in the middle of the year as we strategize our best course of action moving forward over the next couple of seasons.

I agree with #Kriss E that we must continue to rebuild and NOT be satisfied with making the playoffs by a small margin as a goal.

From where I sit, it is too late to do a scorched-earth tank and tear down. We have too many good pieces for that. But we must still strive to IMPROVE the team so that we are a contender, and that means NOT doing any moves that might solidify making the playoffs, at the cost of the medium- and long-term roster strength.

When you make the playoffs, you have to take the attitude of going for it on the ice, no question. But too many GMs (and coaches) get swayed by a chance of making the playoffs to have a slight chance of being the next LA to win from 8th place, and make some really bad decisions just to make the playoffs.

The fear that we fall into this trap is probably why the majority of the posters are asking for a bottom 5 finish, even though it is highly unlikely. It's because almost all of us here, tankers and builders alike, are very strong in our belief that we should not strive for mediocrity. The "anything can happen in the playoffs" meme is not NECESSARILY a negative idea, but it can very easily function as one.

 

[Habs Icing]

Bergevin had an amazing summer. He deserve credit and more chances to prouve himself. We are on the right track.

It started before the summer all the way back to February.

 

[Milhouse40]

The first step was to wait for Weber to return and see how he plays and the effect on Price and the team.
After 17 games, the Habs are 11-6-0 and Price is 9-4-0 with some of the best stats in the league.

During that period, Habs are also 4th in 5-on-5 scoring (They are also 1st in shots on goals)
11th in goals and shots allowed.

So as of now (Things can change but all metrics point in another direction)....we should forget about the lottery and getting another high pick cause it won't happen this year. All probability points towards 3 positions

1- Finishing in the worst position which is #9 and no playoffs
2- Finishing 8th which mean PO against Tampa and probably a very quick exit
3- Finishing 7th which also mean PO but against a teams Habs could beat (Columbus, Pittsburgh, Washington)

So options 3 is the one the Habs should go for as of now.
But to get there they will need help.......time to get some help.

 

[Frank Drebin]

The first step was to wait for Weber to return and see how he plays and the effect on Price and the team.
After 17 games, the Habs are 11-6-0 and Price is 9-4-0 with some of the best stats in the league.

During that period, Habs are also 4th in 5-on-5 scoring (They are also 1st in shots on goals)
11th in goals and shots allowed.

So as of now (Things can change but all metrics point in another direction)....we should forget about the lottery and getting another high pick cause it won't happen this year. All probability points towards 3 positions

1- Finishing in the worst position which is #9 and no playoffs
2- Finishing 8th which mean PO against Tampa and probably a very quick exit
3- Finishing 7th which also mean PO but against a teams Habs could beat (Columbus, Pittsburgh, Washington)

So options 3 is the one the Habs should go for as of now.
But to get there they will need help.......time to get some help.

You don't think there is a chance of finishing third in the division and playing the leafs?

 

[Habs Halifax]

You don't think there is a chance of finishing third in the division and playing the leafs?

I think Boston probably snags the 3rd spot but the Habs definitely have a outside chance at that spot. We have half the year to go. A lot can happen and we do have a healthy roster. Shaw is not seriously hurt.

Said this at the beginning the year. You can write down on paper who you think will be the division winner and who get the 2/3 spot in each division and you would be lucky to pick better than 8 of the 12. There is just way too much variance from year to year and we can't predict injuries and off years.

Lightning, Leafs, Caps, Preds, Jets, Bruins, Pens are you typical picks. Then the answers vary after that. Subtract those 7 teams and maybe a few more, you start to realize that on any given day, the Habs can be in the group behind the top 10 teams.

 

[Habs Icing]

Barring any serious injuries to major players, I can see the Habs improving over the 2nd half of the season. Weber's absence may have been a blessing in disguise. It placed Petry in a position to play to his best. Right now we have two #1 D-men. If anyone doubts Petry is a #1 go look at his stats and analytics. With Weber's return it moved everyone into more suitable roles. Also, it seems that the left side of the D has settled down to where we are getting decent play from all three left defencemen. Even Benn looks good as the third right D.

Right now we're at the mid-point of the season with 49 points. I can see this team getting more than 49 points in the second half. Again barring any serious injuries. I can see the Habs improving to the point of seriously surprising opponents in the playoffs as long as those opponents are not Tampa Bay.

 

[Milhouse40]

You don't think there is a chance of finishing third in the division and playing the leafs?

There's a possibility we get even the 2nd place in our division but i looked at couple of things that pointed in being very very hard. Boston is playing awesome at home (14-5-0) and they got more games at home than on the road in the second half.