Where does Pierre Turgeon rank?
- Thread starter Stephen
- Start date
Turgeron is a strange case. He had great talent, but for the most part didn't seem to do much with it throughout his NHL career. A couple of very good seasons, but a lot of average ones, too.
The last 8 or 9 years of his career, I'd have traded him for a puck bag much of the time. But there is no denying his first several seasons, when he was an offensive force. BTW, Dale Hunter is a ****bag piece of feces. There, I said it. What a joke his hit on Turgeon was! I don't think he was ever the same player after that. Too bad, because the NHL could use a lot more Pierre Turgeons than Dale Hunters!
The last 8 or 9 years of his career, I'd have traded him for a puck bag much of the time. But there is no denying his first several seasons, when he was an offensive force. BTW, Dale Hunter is a ****bag piece of feces. There, I said it. What a joke his hit on Turgeon was! I don't think he was ever the same player after that. Too bad, because the NHL could use a lot more Pierre Turgeons than Dale Hunters!
As nice as those numbers look, finishing 5th in scoring that one time was the high water mark of his career. He never again had what you would call a dominating season, the rest of his career more Vincent Damphousse-like.
Slapshooter
Registered User
- Apr 25, 2007
- 717
- 2
I too agree that Turgeon ranks somewhere near (or slightly above) of Bernie Nicholls, Vincent Damphousse and such.
He's below of Lafontaine, Modano, Oates etc.
Turgeon had a great wrister among other finesse talents, but he also seemed lazy. May be he was too French, just enjoyed life and did his job to get laid.
He's below of Lafontaine, Modano, Oates etc.
Turgeon had a great wrister among other finesse talents, but he also seemed lazy. May be he was too French, just enjoyed life and did his job to get laid.
cupcrazyman
Stupid Sexy Flanders
My bad. Don´t trust sources you can't verify.
/Cheers
He had 7 pts last season.
MadArcand
Whaletarded
AD
Registered User
Interesting list of players
I would place
Lafontaine
Oates
Sundin
Turgeon
Modano
Damphousse
Nicholls
But there's a hair between each
DaveG
Noted Jerk
Doubt Turgeon would be in my top 150 players, even though he was a very good player in his prime. However I wouldn't have him in the Hall of Fame by any means, I just don't remember him being that kind of player.
As for the 7 players in discussion right now:
1) Lafontaine
2) Oates
3) Modano
4) Sundin
5) Turgeon
6) Damphousse
7) Nicholls
As for the 7 players in discussion right now:
1) Lafontaine
2) Oates
3) Modano
4) Sundin
5) Turgeon
6) Damphousse
7) Nicholls
Last edited:
tony d
New poll series coming from me on June 3
cupcrazyman
Stupid Sexy Flanders
1)Oates
2)Sundin
3)Modano
4)Lafontaine
5)Nicholls
6)Damphouse
7)Turgeon
however you listed the first 4 players which are very close imo,there's a big drop in talent after #4.
i am not saying that Sundin is greater than Lafontaine, just imo that he will rank higher once his career is finished.
2)Sundin
3)Modano
4)Lafontaine
5)Nicholls
6)Damphouse
7)Turgeon
however you listed the first 4 players which are very close imo,there's a big drop in talent after #4.
i am not saying that Sundin is greater than Lafontaine, just imo that he will rank higher once his career is finished.
1. Wayne Gretzky
2. Bobby Orr
3. Gordie Howe
4. Mario Lemieux
5. Eddie Shore
6. Bobby Hull
7. Maurice Richard
8. Jean Beliveau
9. Terry Sawchuk
10. Doug Harvey
11. Phil Esposito
12. Howie Morenz
13. Jacques Plante
14. Pierre Turgeon
15. Guy Lafleur
I think he fits in about right at #14 all-time.
2. Bobby Orr
3. Gordie Howe
4. Mario Lemieux
5. Eddie Shore
6. Bobby Hull
7. Maurice Richard
8. Jean Beliveau
9. Terry Sawchuk
10. Doug Harvey
11. Phil Esposito
12. Howie Morenz
13. Jacques Plante
14. Pierre Turgeon
15. Guy Lafleur
I think he fits in about right at #14 all-time.
Puck Dogg
Puck life
- Mar 13, 2006
- 1,812
- 496
I wrote a long post to point out differences between Modano, Sundin and Turgeon. Then I realized it could be summed up as follows: which one of these guys you'd want to lead your team? Where it comes down to, is that you start thinking shoud I pick Modano or Sundin.
cupcrazyman
Stupid Sexy Flanders
Lots of statistical smoke in this thread.
Turgeon is nowhere near as good as Modano or Sundin. And I'm not a big of Modano or Sundin. I think his talent is superior to a Modano or Sundin. Turgeon was a magnificent stick handler and a playmaker, and while he wasn't fast, he was excellent at slowing the pace down to his level. I would even rate Turgeon below Damphousse. Turgeon was an exceptional offensive talent, definitely better offensively than Damphousse. But Damphousse was better defensively, a better two-way forward, more consistent, and a better leader.
Turgeon should have been a player in the calibre of a Dale Hawerchuk or a Denis Savard or even a Jean Ratelle. He had the talent to be that good. Ratelle's right on the edge for the top 100 players ever. Hawerchuk and Savard are outside of my top 100. But Turgeon's nowhere near as good of a player as those three.
Turgeon played his way out of three cities where he was supposed to be the saviour. He was selected first overall in 1987 by Buffalo, who expected him to be their franchise player. And boy, he looked like that franchise player in 1989-90. Then 1990-91 came. He slumped. Badly. Buffalo was trying really hard to trade him after that.
He went to Long Island. Played well in the second half of 1991-92, and had the career year in 1992-93. Then 1993-94 hit. Don't let the numbers fool you: he struggled. Badly. To paraphrase the Hockey Scouting Report the next year: "Those were 94 of the most forgettable points in NHL history." And then the 1994 playoffs hit. The Islanders couldn't wait to trade him.
Montreal acquired him to be their next great French superstar. They even gave him the C. As part of that, he was part of the most memorable moment in the league in the 1995-96 regular season: holding The Torch at centre ice following the last game at the Forum. All those great captains and HHOFers on the ice, and the culmination focused on Turgeon. It's a responsibility he wasn't ready for. That's why the Habs traded him, and why they got so little for him.
St. Louis wasn't kind to him at first. In fact, he needed a late-season flurry, and the strongest post-season showing of his career, to save his job in 1999. The Blues were thrilled he did: he responded with two of the best years of his career. He had back-to-back excellent seasons. And then he went to Dallas. Oops.
His playoff numbers aren't bad. But he never had a playoff that would be classified as outstanding or sensational.
And he only played one game in the second round of the 1993 playoffs. Game 7. And he wasn't a big factor in that game. The Islanders pulled off arguably the biggest upset of the decade without him. Kudos to him for playing in that game with a separated shoulder - an injury that was supposed to keep him out four to six weeks, but sidelined him for two. But his team won without him.
Turgeon is nowhere near as good as Modano or Sundin. And I'm not a big of Modano or Sundin. I think his talent is superior to a Modano or Sundin. Turgeon was a magnificent stick handler and a playmaker, and while he wasn't fast, he was excellent at slowing the pace down to his level. I would even rate Turgeon below Damphousse. Turgeon was an exceptional offensive talent, definitely better offensively than Damphousse. But Damphousse was better defensively, a better two-way forward, more consistent, and a better leader.
Turgeon should have been a player in the calibre of a Dale Hawerchuk or a Denis Savard or even a Jean Ratelle. He had the talent to be that good. Ratelle's right on the edge for the top 100 players ever. Hawerchuk and Savard are outside of my top 100. But Turgeon's nowhere near as good of a player as those three.
Turgeon played his way out of three cities where he was supposed to be the saviour. He was selected first overall in 1987 by Buffalo, who expected him to be their franchise player. And boy, he looked like that franchise player in 1989-90. Then 1990-91 came. He slumped. Badly. Buffalo was trying really hard to trade him after that.
He went to Long Island. Played well in the second half of 1991-92, and had the career year in 1992-93. Then 1993-94 hit. Don't let the numbers fool you: he struggled. Badly. To paraphrase the Hockey Scouting Report the next year: "Those were 94 of the most forgettable points in NHL history." And then the 1994 playoffs hit. The Islanders couldn't wait to trade him.
Montreal acquired him to be their next great French superstar. They even gave him the C. As part of that, he was part of the most memorable moment in the league in the 1995-96 regular season: holding The Torch at centre ice following the last game at the Forum. All those great captains and HHOFers on the ice, and the culmination focused on Turgeon. It's a responsibility he wasn't ready for. That's why the Habs traded him, and why they got so little for him.
St. Louis wasn't kind to him at first. In fact, he needed a late-season flurry, and the strongest post-season showing of his career, to save his job in 1999. The Blues were thrilled he did: he responded with two of the best years of his career. He had back-to-back excellent seasons. And then he went to Dallas. Oops.
His playoff numbers aren't bad. But he never had a playoff that would be classified as outstanding or sensational.
And he only played one game in the second round of the 1993 playoffs. Game 7. And he wasn't a big factor in that game. The Islanders pulled off arguably the biggest upset of the decade without him. Kudos to him for playing in that game with a separated shoulder - an injury that was supposed to keep him out four to six weeks, but sidelined him for two. But his team won without him.
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
You probably overlooked Turgeon somewhat. Much is talked about his awsomeness in 92-93 but he had some boffo seasons in St. Louis as well. Turgeon is a very good player and often underrated. But he's not a HHoFer
Badger Bob
Registered User
Some of these comments are comical. No way does Turgeon compare favorably to any of Sundin, Modano or the player he was once traded for: LaFontaine. If the comparison with LaFontaine is going to be made, then the question needs to be asked why Turgeon was unable to develop chemistry with Alexander Mogilny, whereas LaFontaine thrived?
Judging from your avatar, you're a Sabres fan? Yet, you clearly don't know the history. Turgeon's arrival in Buffalo was supposed to annoint him as the heir apparent to Gil Perreault. With the benefit of hindsight, this viewpoint was completely laughable. Turgeon had incredible skill but did not work to make his linemates better, display any sacrifice, provide leadership or show any heart (except that one playoff for the Islanders in '93). Players like him and Housley were the reason the Sabres frequently tanked in the first round (if they made it), while Rick Vaive would work his tail off. "Oh, but he put up points!" Hallelujah!
If any Montreal fans are lamented the departure of Turgeon, it's because they're too far-removed from the tradition that once-proud franchise represented. Corson's being remembered more for the colitis, obnoxious behavior with Green & Tucker up in Toronto and the strange circumstances surrounding his exit from the Leafs. After he was acquired, Hockey Canada thought enough of his grit to include him on the '98 Nagano Olympic team. OTOH, Turgeon then had a life of leisure, feeding Brett Hull and never having to worry about causing damage in the post-season (a familiar refrain throughout his underachieving career). Further, it's not as if the Canadiens were on the cusp of greatness during Turgeon's tenure with le bleu, blanc et rouge either. Jacques Demers essentially iced a one-line team of Damphousse-Turgeon-Recchi, while riding Patrick Roy in net. It eventually cost him his job, but Toe Blake could've returned from the dead and not brought respectability back behind that bench.
A couple of other things are in Damphousse's favor, and that's that he actually contributed toward his team actually winning something. He also played every forward position. Turgeon put up points, partly by feasting on the power play, but he did little else. Let's be blunt. Turgeon was a wuss. The morning after the Corson-Turgeon deal (Craig Conroy turned out to be a bigger loss for the Habs, truth be known), I saw Mike Robataille (Sabres analyst, for those who don't know) at my gym and asked him to offer his thoughts. He willingly obliged. Let's just say that impression of Turgeon wouldn't make it past the profanity filter, and it's not likely that anything was accomplished to have altered the opinion since.
Judging from your avatar, you're a Sabres fan? Yet, you clearly don't know the history. Turgeon's arrival in Buffalo was supposed to annoint him as the heir apparent to Gil Perreault. With the benefit of hindsight, this viewpoint was completely laughable. Turgeon had incredible skill but did not work to make his linemates better, display any sacrifice, provide leadership or show any heart (except that one playoff for the Islanders in '93). Players like him and Housley were the reason the Sabres frequently tanked in the first round (if they made it), while Rick Vaive would work his tail off. "Oh, but he put up points!" Hallelujah!
If any Montreal fans are lamented the departure of Turgeon, it's because they're too far-removed from the tradition that once-proud franchise represented. Corson's being remembered more for the colitis, obnoxious behavior with Green & Tucker up in Toronto and the strange circumstances surrounding his exit from the Leafs. After he was acquired, Hockey Canada thought enough of his grit to include him on the '98 Nagano Olympic team. OTOH, Turgeon then had a life of leisure, feeding Brett Hull and never having to worry about causing damage in the post-season (a familiar refrain throughout his underachieving career). Further, it's not as if the Canadiens were on the cusp of greatness during Turgeon's tenure with le bleu, blanc et rouge either. Jacques Demers essentially iced a one-line team of Damphousse-Turgeon-Recchi, while riding Patrick Roy in net. It eventually cost him his job, but Toe Blake could've returned from the dead and not brought respectability back behind that bench.
A couple of other things are in Damphousse's favor, and that's that he actually contributed toward his team actually winning something. He also played every forward position. Turgeon put up points, partly by feasting on the power play, but he did little else. Let's be blunt. Turgeon was a wuss. The morning after the Corson-Turgeon deal (Craig Conroy turned out to be a bigger loss for the Habs, truth be known), I saw Mike Robataille (Sabres analyst, for those who don't know) at my gym and asked him to offer his thoughts. He willingly obliged. Let's just say that impression of Turgeon wouldn't make it past the profanity filter, and it's not likely that anything was accomplished to have altered the opinion since.
Fish on The Sand
Untouchable
Here is a question for you. If Turgeon made the hall of fame would you be disgusted by it or just disagree with it?
Badger Bob
Registered User
Turgeon never made it happen with Mogilny. That was one of the main reasons, plus fans were starting to ride him (and deservedly so). If that tandum had worked, there would've been no need to peddle his services. The organization would've overlooked the other, obvious shortcomings in his game, while other players could've filled those roles. It wasn't a well-kept secret that the Islanders were attempting to move LaFontaine (not exactly sure why, so if an Isles fan could fills us in, it'd be much appreciated) and there had even been Patty to Calgary for Nieuwendyk rumors floating around.
Corson was a controversial figure, no question. Even though he gave off this white trash type of image, no less than Red Fisher said that he came off as intelligent during interviews. When his game was on, with Tucker and Stevenson on a checking line in Montreal, at least other teams knew they'd faced a team that came to play. Nobody nursed bruises the next morning from Turgeon.
One more thing to add about Turgeon: he was unquestionably the consensus #1 pick in the '87 draft. He was considered head and shoulders above other prospects. The second overall? Brendan Shanahan. As far as the bench-clearing incident at the WJC, it may have taken on a life of its own since, but it was symbolic.
Corson was a controversial figure, no question. Even though he gave off this white trash type of image, no less than Red Fisher said that he came off as intelligent during interviews. When his game was on, with Tucker and Stevenson on a checking line in Montreal, at least other teams knew they'd faced a team that came to play. Nobody nursed bruises the next morning from Turgeon.
One more thing to add about Turgeon: he was unquestionably the consensus #1 pick in the '87 draft. He was considered head and shoulders above other prospects. The second overall? Brendan Shanahan. As far as the bench-clearing incident at the WJC, it may have taken on a life of its own since, but it was symbolic.
Boom Boom Bear
Registered User
Badger Bob, that's a nice post, but a few things:
1. I became a Sabres fan in January 1992, three months after the trade.
2. I understand Turgeon's issues in Buffalo- back then, I didn't know much about it- I thought he was traded because he was in a scoring slump and not playing well.
3. As for Corson, do I need to remind you of when he and Oilers coach George Burnett had issues over the team captaincy? He was not exactly a great teammate.
Boom Boom Bear
Registered User
That's a little unfair. Please enlighten as to how many guys touted as franchise players were able to successfully lead their teams to glory at ages 18 to 22? They are few and far between, my friend. Mario Lemieux burned up the league his first four years yet the Penguins completely failed to make the playoffs. Turgeon cracked 100 points at age 20, yet Pat LaFontaine didn't hit that mark until age 25.
And you use Mogilny as an argument, conveniently forgetting that Mogilny, the first ever Russian to play in the NHL, himself had trouble adjusting to NHL play his first couple of seasons. By the time he started figuring out the NHL game, Turgeon was already gone. And on a team that also featured Dale Hawerchuk, Dave Andreychuk and Mike Ramsey, why does the burden of the blame for not getting past the first round in the playoffs fall upon the shoulders of Turgeon and Housley?
Perhaps if he hadn't been saddled with the pressure of being the heir to Gilbert Perreault, and been given a fair chance to develop, Buffalo would've seen the same Pierre Turgeon as Long Island hockey fans.
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
At this point, I have so little respect for the HHoF that I'd just shake my head in shame and move on. They've lost too much good will for me to get disgusted by anything but corrupt voting. As a side bar, for all the negativity about guys like Duff, Gillies and Neely getting in, for me, more than anything, it's that for the past two years a sitting member of the committee has been put in as a builder that has sickened me.
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
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