Where do you see fighting/hitting in the future?

[Big Phil]

Fighting is at about 0.25pg right now. Same as last year and pretty much what the original 6 era had believe it or not. The all-time high was 1.31pg in 1988.

The other night the analysts were debating a hit that 10-15 years ago we all in unison would be saying that the hittee should have had his head up. Jeff O'Neill chimed in and said that in his whole career he never thought while he was in the process of hitting someone that he needs to change his route. It all happens so fast and that was his point. He said the NHL is making it so that no one even tries to do open ice hits anymore because they are afraid of being suspended because someone has their head down and the head is contacted.

Look, we have the greatest game in the world and we are draining the passion out of it in droves. There are no rivalries anymore, no hate, no animosity and everything is over-analyzed.

Where do you see fighting in 10 years? Will it be something that happens 0.10pg, if that, or will it go up or stay about the same (not sure what makes it go up right now though)? Will there always be fights in the game when needed?

What about hitting? Things like fighting and a bit hit used to be the turning points of a game or even a series. I can think of one great fight this year, Benn's fight, but how often does this happen? When did you last see a line brawl with even just three sets of players going at it at once? Or a goalie fight? Or coaches almost getting into it? John Tortorella recently complained about the lack of intensity in the NHL and he is right. We need it badly, hockey was so much better when we had it.

But where do you see these two aspects of the game (hitting and fighting) in a decade?

Click to read more...

 

[sandysan]

I don't know if fighting in 10 years will be 0.25, 0.10 or 0.05 but it won't be 0.0. Beefs will be borne and no one thinks the refs can protect players with their whistles. And historically fights go up, fights go down.

As for hitting, it used to be that if you put yourself in a vulnerable position and got lit up, it was on you. The completely lack of situational awareness by some current players astounds me. Surprisingly, the most dangerous place to get hit is close to ( but not too close) to the boards and we don't see those types of hits getting punished enough. but lay out a guy by any metric in the open ice as he is admiring his laces, chances are the main boards is going to be screaming for some sort of supplmental discipline. Whether the league caters to the " 2 games for an unnecessary hit" concept remains to be seen. I hope they won't but suspect that they likely will.

And I liked the animus, I liked that rivalries were blood rivalries but it appears that those says are gone. If the league can find a bunch of " moar goalz" fans I suspect that's the way the league is gonna go (NBA on ice).

 

[Big Phil]

I still think that way that a player has a responsibility to look out for himself on the ice. To me, that hasn't changed at all since Scott Stevens was lighting people up on the open ice. Everyone knew that had Eric Lindros kept his head up he wouldn't have gotten hurt. Stevens had a job to do, and he did it.

Pete Rose has a nice commentary on this. No matter what people think of Rose I like his explanation of the collision he had with Ray Fosse at the plate during the 1970 All-Star game. Fosse hurt his shoulder on the play and while some say he was never the same the truth is he played 9 years after that, won two World Series and played in the All-Star game the following year as well. But Fosse was blocking the plate when Rose was coming home from second. Rose says that Fosse had a job to do (block the plate) and Rose had a job to do (score at the plate) and that was that. People say that it was just an "exhibition game" but if that is the truth why block the plate in the first place? Basically the play that happened was a baseball play.

The same thing happens in hockey. Auston Matthews got hurt on a harmless looking hit the other day. It was a hockey hit. If you can't handle that type of hit in a league where you are carrying the puck a lot, well, you need to! It is that simple. Or be like Wayne Gretzky and have spidey-sense and see it coming a mile away. Somewhere along the way we've put the onus on the hitter and only the hitter. If you are crossing the road and don't look both ways aren't you the first one to blame? I think so.

 

[Sheppy]

Where ever it is... I don't like where it's going. It's hard enough watching a game with zero emotion these days.

Look at Coles hit last night. That was textbook and he got 5 and a game.

 

[Bizz]

I see more of it.

 

[Beukeboom]

I think there is a chance that a tough team in a very soft league will go all the way. That could lead to other teams getting tougher and we'll see an increasing trend again.

Another scenario is that "regular" fans wake up. Check out Instagram feeds about NHL (and I'm not talking about hockeyfights and similar), people complain about the softness en masse. In discussions about suspensions all the top comments are from people saying the league is soft. NHL has no soul, they will just adhere to whatever they think the fansbase wants. The average fan kind of like violence and animosity.

A third scenario is that the whole fear of CTE dampens. I am no expert in neuroscience but neither are the people talking about players becoming vegetables. How many players have CTE for instance? Two confirmed is all that I know (heard five somewhere). The same with players and suicide quickly being linked to CTE. We don't know how prevalent it is in the society as a whole, but say for instance 0.5% have CTE. NHL has around 650 players at any given season, so that means at least three of them would get CTE regardless. This was just an example but it is something I've noticed few seem to grasp. On top of that I think the main issue with NHL in the past was that if you got concussed you'd finish the game and then play the next day. Most of us non professional players have had a concussion or two and neither of us is suffering from it.

So to summarize I think it will have a place if any of the above, or all of them, scenarios come true. Also players in the NHL are so competitive, otherwise they would not be there, so I'm sure tempers will fly to some extent even in a soft future.

 

[Big Phil]

Where ever it is... I don't like where it's going. It's hard enough watching a game with zero emotion these days.

Look at Coles hit last night. That was textbook and he got 5 and a game.

It is dampening things a bit. Or a lot. I mean, Trouba's hit on Matthews was clean, and that is the consensus, but you had to basically re-watch it just to make sure because you know someone is doing this 24/7 just to find little things anyway. Also, the average fan could care less about the bad language on the ice between the players. Think of Trottier and Kevin Stevens in that clip where they are harassing Brian Bellows from the bench. Like it or not, that's part of the game and a fan watching on TV doesn't hear it anyway so don't make the players walk on eggshells.

I see more of it.

It is possible, because there are ebbs and flows but what makes you think it will go up? What are you seeing?

 

[Get North]

The passion, fighting, and hitting in hockey is trending downwards. But, I don't think it will be like that forever, like a previous poster says once the heat from the CTE lawsuits cools off, people get paid, or something, then we'll see the NHL relax on the suspensions and fines for dirty hits IMO. Then we'll see it trend back up, but probably never to the point of a Stevens-Kariya hit being legal.

 

[adsfan]

I thought that NHL fighting was down at 0.33 PG, 1 fight per 3 games. Now it is 1 fight per 4 games? The trend is down.

How much longer before the NBA or MLB have more? I appreciate that most MLB fights are a lot of guys standing around watching 2 or 3 combatants. I don't really follow the NBA, but they seemed to have a lot of fights last season. I remember 4 Lakers fighting with 5 Suns. Does that count as 1 fight or 4 or 5?

 

[Finster8]

It is and always will be part of the game. To much testosterone on the ice for shaking hands after loosing a few chicklets from a high stick. The old days instant fight, now it is usually another cheap shot as retaliation. What is worse? Personally drop the mittens and go. Unfortunately the OHL has a 3 fight rule not in a game, the entire season. Bit crazy only 3 fights then extra time suspended after that. Sure hope they change that rule so players are ready for the next level. THE CHL has different rules for amount of fights from the Q to the WHL. It should be consistent in all 3 leagues. I hope it does not turn into soccer.

 

[sandysan]

I thought that NHL fighting was down at 0.33 PG, 1 fight per 3 games. Now it is 1 fight per 4 games? The trend is down.

How much longer before the NBA or MLB have more? I appreciate that most MLB fights are a lot of guys standing around watching 2 or 3 combatants. I don't really follow the NBA, but they seemed to have a lot of fights last season. I remember 4 Lakers fighting with 5 Suns. Does that count as 1 fight or 4 or 5?

its an nba fight, I'm not sure it counts as one.

 

[JETZZZ]

I thought that NHL fighting was down at 0.33 PG, 1 fight per 3 games. Now it is 1 fight per 4 games? The trend is down.

How much longer before the NBA or MLB have more? I appreciate that most MLB fights are a lot of guys standing around watching 2 or 3 combatants. I don't really follow the NBA, but they seemed to have a lot of fights last season. I remember 4 Lakers fighting with 5 Suns. Does that count as 1 fight or 4 or 5?

At this point, fighting in MLB and the NFL and the NBA makes about as much sense as fighting in hockey does. The ref doesn't catch 100% of everything out there either. Why dont they just step back and let the players police themselves there too? Imagine if baseball embraced bench clearing brawls the same way hockey did with fighting?

 

[ScrewParros]

At this point, fighting in MLB and the NFL and the NBA makes about as much sense as fighting in hockey does. The ref doesn't catch 100% of everything out there either. Why dont they just step back and let the players police themselves there too? Imagine if baseball embraced bench clearing brawls the same way hockey did with fighting?

Not trying to be racially insensitive but if there was fighting in the NBA they would be stomping eachothers heads while they are down and putting each-other in comas with kicks to the head and other stuff when a player is down. It's just typically how they tend to fight. In the MLB on the other hand their fights seem rather mild and are mostly cinematic shouting and grappling matches. Little to no punches thrown. Aside from all this, the way the NHL is going with muh boy George and the Dept Of Player Safety, all fighting will be gone in a decade ( already down over 60% from 5 years ago ) , and all body checking and " hits " will be gone. Odd's are the NHL and AHL and affiliate leagues will switch to flag, because they are so obsessed and over-concerned about CTE, concussions and the mere potential for head injuries.

 

[JETZZZ]

Not trying to be racially insensitive but if there was fighting in the NBA they would be stomping eachothers heads while they are down and putting each-other in comas with kicks to the head and other stuff when a player is down. It's just typically how they tend to fight. In the MLB on the other hand their fights seem rather mild and are mostly cinematic shouting and grappling matches. Little to no punches thrown. Aside from all this, the way the NHL is going with muh boy George and the Dept Of Player Safety, all fighting will be gone in a decade ( already down over 60% from 5 years ago ) , and all body checking and " hits " will be gone. Odd's are the NHL and AHL and affiliate leagues will switch to flag, because they are so obsessed and over-concerned about CTE, concussions and the mere potential for head injuries.

It may take a few years for the NBA to adopt "the code" and when it does, things will be all hunky dunky. Although the NHL has become a "speed and talent" game now, it doesn't mean the low level minor leagues will. The minor leagues dont have the McDavid or Gaudreau level talent available so it will still try to keep things as physical as possible.

 

[Howie Hodge]

The NHL may well be going the way of The NFL. Take out the big hits whenever possible.

They're both paying star players too much to risk them being injured if they can help it.

The only time you see scraps in hockey anymore is usually when someone throws a hard body check. Kind of ironic, don't you think?

A little too ironic, and yeah I really do think...

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

It is and always will be part of the game. To much testosterone on the ice for shaking hands after loosing a few chicklets from a high stick. The old days instant fight, now it is usually another cheap shot as retaliation. What is worse? Personally drop the mittens and go. Unfortunately the OHL has a 3 fight rule not in a game, the entire season. Bit crazy only 3 fights then extra time suspended after that. Sure hope they change that rule so players are ready for the next level. THE CHL has different rules for amount of fights from the Q to the WHL. It should be consistent in all 3 leagues. I hope it does not turn into soccer.

That is an actual rule? Pathetic.

 

[sandysan]

At this point, fighting in MLB and the NFL and the NBA makes about as much sense as fighting in hockey does. The ref doesn't catch 100% of everything out there either. Why dont they just step back and let the players police themselves there too? Imagine if baseball embraced bench clearing brawls the same way hockey did with fighting?

Pitchers protect teammates by intentionally plunking guys. That is policing themselves.

You might not like or understand it, but the players don't care.

 

[Spirit of 67]

The completely lack of situational awareness by some current players astounds me.

That's not a hockey thing. That's at 2018 thing. It's literally everywhere. People going about their business as though they share the planet with no one.

I have no idea where all of this stuff is going. I can look back at games from the '90's and think they're crap. Even though I was all in at the time. I look at the game now and love lots of parts but miss the animosity. I guess that means it will never be perfect and not everyone will love it all the time.

Here's the catch; two things I got very tired of were staged fights and players being carted off the ice on stretchers. Those things were ruining the game for me.

I will add one last thing, I know a lot of people are searching for a villain in all this. Bettman, Branch, do-goooders, pacifists, whatever. Quite honestly, I've been predicting for a while that it would be a bunch of insurance company lawyers in a boardroom that would be the demise of fighting. I don't know if it's what happened but the old saying goes follow the money. And we know insurers hate payouts.

 

[Newsworthy]

I like where fighting is at the moment. It's only going to decrease with the instigator and the fact that the league has transitioned into skill oriented. Add in concussions and Nfl type lawsuits and you will see a huge decline.

 

[Peiskos]

Soon only light body checks will be permitted in the NHL, the sad reality. Fighting will continue to slowly decline and the NHL will ultimately devolve into a no hitting, no fighting league. As a result we will begin to see more and more soccer-esque dives and fakery and in general softer players than we've ever seen before.

 

[ScrewParros]

Soon only light body checks will be permitted in the NHL, the sad reality. Fighting will continue to slowly decline and the NHL will ultimately devolve into a no hitting, no fighting league. As a result we will begin to see more and more soccer-esque dives and fakery and in general softer players than we've ever seen before.

Facts. We have seen FIVE incidents involving big clean hits ending in game misconducts, major penalties and even suspensions and fines THIS MONTH ALONE. Soon players will stop body checking and hitting altogether. Just as we are seeing the " Last of the Enforcers " and the fighting, hitting and the " Hitters " in the league will slowly vanish. All we will be left with is mild stick checking between zones. And just " superstars " skating through all three zones unimpeded scoring goals over and over. How " Fun " that will be to watch.

 

[JETZZZ]

Pitchers protect teammates by intentionally plunking guys. That is policing themselves.

You might not like or understand it, but the players don't care.

Sure, but it would be way cooler if instead of hitting people with pitches...maybe the catcher gets up and starts throwing some knuckle sandwiches into the batter. Or lets say that your team is loosing quite badly late in the game and the odds of a comeback are pretty slim. Your on 2nd base and the opposing team just hit a grand slam. The last batter is just rounding first and headed your way. You want to send a message to the opposing team. This is when you catch em with a sucker punch. He falls to the ground in surprise and you begin to lay a beating on him. This will introduce some extra physical prowess and an intimidation game not seen in baseball before. Knowing that a fist fight can break out at any base at any time between plays can really liven up the game. Its not like baseball does not have any lulls in the game that can be filled with this kind of action.

 

[sandysan]

Sure, but it would be way cooler if instead of hitting people with pitches...maybe the catcher gets up and starts throwing some knuckle sandwiches into the batter. Or lets say that your team is loosing quite badly late in the game and the odds of a comeback are pretty slim. Your on 2nd base and the opposing team just hit a grand slam. The last batter is just rounding first and headed your way. You want to send a message to the opposing team. This is when you catch em with a sucker punch. He falls to the ground in surprise and you begin to lay a beating on him. This will introduce some extra physical prowess and an intimidation game not seen in baseball before. Knowing that a fist fight can break out at any base at any time between plays can really liven up the game. Its not like baseball does not have any lulls in the game that can be filled with this kind of action.

you do any of that, you will reap what you sow. baseball players, of all the pro athletes, have the longest memories.

the players, past and present, don't care one bit if protecting a teamate gets YOUR panties in a bunch. They are not doing it for you.

don't understand it ? watch more games. Don't like it ? turn your head.

easy peasy

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Fighting is alive and well in the ECHL.

If the low minors adopted and NHL-type policy toward fighting, they may as well just shut the doors and be done with it.

I enjoy the NHL product and I go to 10-15 live NHL games per year. But there's not a doubt in my mind that the lower levels of fighting and hitting will ultimately reduce interest in the product. The league is struggling (I think) to find a reasonable middle ground on hard hits. The Matt Cooke type head shots on Marc Savard need to go-I don't know anyone (except perhaps Tom Wilson) who would disagree with that. The problem is that the league is risking throwing out the baby with the bath water.

NHL/AHL hockey will be in a state of flux regarding fighting/hard hitting until the legal issues are settled.

 

[Finster8]

That is an actual rule? Pathetic.

100% PBF