Where do we stand?

[groovejuice]

Compete now. We have enough good prospects we can afford to trade some without skipping a beat. Hell, Scherbak was drafted in the latter rounds, proving we can find good pieces again to replace him. Price is playing at a level nearing superhuman. Why not take advantage of that? With a team that could actually score, we'd be a frighteningly difficult opponent.

Just to clarify, Scherbak was a first round pick. And is rated higher than his position.

Are you thinking of another player?

 

[Takeru]

I think I figured out what Bergevin's plan is:

-Groom our current core into good veterans. Doesn't matter if they're 30 by the time we're ready to contend, they won't be as bad as Plekanec who turns into a bum at 32y/o.

-By that time, our core 2.0 (consisting of Chucky, Gally, Sherby, BigMac, Beaulieu, Tinordi, and co.) will be entering their own prime, meaning we'll have the luxury of contending with TWO cores! Isn't that freakin amazing?

-And I mean, if we feel like it, why stop there? We could even wait for our third core (1sts 2015, 16, 17, 18, 2nd 2016, 3rd 2017) to develop, and become an even greater powerhouse. The next dynasty is on its way guys, have faith!

 

[bsl]

Going into 2015-2016, there seems to be two different trains of thought among HF Habs fans. Either we need to make a push for the Cup while our core is still young OR our core is still young enough that we should manage our assets and continue to draft high and develop our prospects.

Our core`s effective ages: Patches 26, Subban 26, Galchenyuk 21, Gallagher 23, Petry 27, Eller 27, Price 29, Weise 26 (arguably)

Still earning their spot: Beaulieu 22, De La Rose 20

Significant veterans: Plekanec 33, Markov 37

Top Prospects: Sherbak 19, McCarron 20, Tinordi 23, Reway 20, Hudon 21

The implications are this: If we are pushing for the Cup then we are keeping Markov and Plekanec and making our picks and prospects available in order to gain those pieces that will take us over the top. If we have time to continue our build, then we hold onto our picks and prospects and perhaps guys like Plekanec and Markov could be available for more picks or prospects.

We can`t be inbetweeners and hope that we can move players not listed above for significant assets, while waiting to see how guys like Galchenyuk, Beaulieu and our prospects develop.

Why can't Habs do both?

 

[BaseballCoach]

There's a common assumption on this board that the purpose of contracts it to hold players hostage, and that they will all leave the minute they can.

I assume you do not agree with that common assumption, and neither do I.

I don't recall us losing many FAs that the GM didn't mind losing .... in a long time.

Souray was maybe one guy who Gainey wanted to keep, not desperately, but did want to keep if possible, but got Hamrlik for the same money finally.

Streit was one guy whose salary demands became too rich for the team. The Wiz too. But that is not a lot of guys, and Wiz was brought in as a rental without a lot of hope for re-signing, anyway.

Koivu, Kovalev, Komisarek, Bonk, Lang, Tanguay, Ryder, Gionta were all guys the management was ok with losing. Moore was a good rental and someone I would have wanted to keep but Gauthier did not agree and did not offer him a contract.

Markov and Plekanec both re-signed with us, the former three times. Petry re-upped too. Mitchell is another guy that the GM wanted and was able to re-sign. Even Kovalev the first time he was UFA in 2004 and we wanted him back, we got him.

By and large, losing a guy we actually want to keep to UFA is not that common an occurence.

Besides, a contract does not even hold unhappy people for very long. We traded Camalleri, Halak, Sekac and Lapierre for various reasons related to their perception of their role on the team, and all were under contract or RFA.

 

[DAChampion]

I assume you do not agree with that common assumption, and neither to I.

I don't recall us losing many FAs that the GM didn't mind losing .... in a long time.

Souray was maybe one guy who Gainey wanted to keep, not desperately, but did want to keep if possible, but got Hamrlik for the same money finally.

Streit was one guy whose salary demands became too rich for the team. The Wiz too. But that is not a lot of guys, and Wiz was brought in as a rental without a lot of hope for re-signing, anyway.

Koivu, Kovalev, Komisarek, Bonk, Lang, Tanguay, Ryder, Gionta were all guys the management was ok with losing. Moore was a good rental and someone I would have wanted to keep but Gauthier did not agree and did not offer him a contract.

Markov and Plekanec both re-signed with us, the former three times. Petry re-upped too. Mitchell is another guy that the GM wanted and was able to re-sign. Even Kovalev the first time he was UFA in 2004 and we wanted him back, we got him.

By and large, losing a guy we actually want to keep to UFA is not that common an occurence.

Besides, a contract does not even hold unhappy people for very long. We traded Camalleri, Halak, Sekac and Lapierre for various reasons related to their perception of their role on the team, and all were under contract or RFA.

Yes, we agree overall.

Maybe they have residual trauma from the 1990s Expos?

Regardless, my expectation for Price and Pacioretty is that they stay here at the end of their contracts but at increased salaries. I won't speculate on the size of the increase three years in advance.

 

[TT1]

We have 3 more years to win a cup before we lose Price... So yes, we should make a run for it now.

before we lose Price?

 

[Nynja*]

There's a common assumption on this board that the purpose of contracts it to hold players hostage, and that they will all leave the minute they can.

For me its not a matter of "keeping Price"...but its a matter of how much of the cap Price will take up. He's going to get a nice raise.

 

[ECWHSWI]

the problem isnt wether we'll manage to keep Price or not (or other high end players) when their contract ends, it's the idea that by being patient we'll start challenging for the Cup when Price is 32, Patches and Subban 30 ?

they're our core right now, Price and Subban are arguably the best (or among the best) at their position, and they are in their prime...

there's no reason to wait really.

 

[DAChampion]

the problem isnt wether we'll manage to keep Price or not (or other high end players) when their contract ends, it's the idea that by being patient we'll start challenging for the Cup when Price is 32, Patches and Subban 30 ?

they're our core right now, Price and Subban are arguably the best (or among the best) at their position, and they are in their prime...

there's no reason to wait really.

There can be multiple bad ideas on the board at once

 

[Deluded Puck]

Hiding behind the transition excuse without developing anyone.

Never mind that none of our futures are under pressure to become our best forward or defender. Even Galchenyuk only has to be the 4th best player, 3rd best skater and 2nd best forward.

 

[DAChampion]

Bergevin's team has had an average of two emergent youth per year during his tenure:

Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Tokarski, Beaulieu, De La Rose, Sekac/DSP.

Next year, if those six players stick, and we add two of Pateryn/Hudon/Tinordi, the positive track record will continue.

 

[Habs]

He does, though his dream team is probably filled with cheap grinders like Mitchell, Flynn, or DSP.

He's probably losing sleep over letting his other reclamation project go, Malhotra.

 

[MXD]

Bergevin's team has had an average of two emergent youth per year during his tenure:

Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Tokarski, Beaulieu, De La Rose, Sekac/DSP.

Next year, if those six players stick, and we add two of Pateryn/Hudon/Tinordi, the positive track record will continue.

And Bournival, too.

 

[Conflicted Habs fan]

The Habs are one step away in dominating the league. Our defense and goal-tending are the best in the league, they only need a sniper now more than any time since the age of Lafleur.

 

[De Montreal]

Love Bergevin, my favourite GM since I started following the Canadiens but he needs to prove his worth a make a big splash soon. Our championship window close with Pacioretty contract.

As soon as Pacioretty contrat expire (at the end of the 18-19 season) we need re-sign him and he will ask for at least 7M$ (could be more by then with the cap going up)

I'd say our window might close before that : in 17-18 offseason, we need to re-sign Price. In a span of two off-season, we might have three players with combined cap hit of 25,5 millions (10 for PK, 8 for Price, 7.5 for Pacioretty). That's 33% of the payroll.

So yeah, three years left.

 

[JayKing]

You can't win with 3 big contracts on your team (possibly 4 if Galchenyuk develops into an elite player). The window closes when Pacioretty signs his next contract. By then, You'll already have Price & Subban making big money, which will mean not much room to work with.

The Habs have been stuck in no man's land for 10+ years. Bubble team that isn't good enough to win the cup, not bad enough to have enough high draft picks to inject talent in the roster. It's time to just go for it and if things don't work out then at least you tried instead of being satisfied with mediocrity.

 

[Zorba]

Bergevin's team has had an average of two emergent youth per year during his tenure:

Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Tokarski, Beaulieu, De La Rose, Sekac/DSP.

Next year, if those six players stick, and we add two of Pateryn/Hudon/Tinordi, the positive track record will continue.

Im not sure if you're serious or not with three of the last 4 you named? DLR? Smith-pelly. Tokarski? What? Smith-pelly is junk. DLR completely unproven and tokarsi, well he's tokarski

 

[dreamingofdrouin*]

We have 3 more years to win a cup before we lose Price... So yes, we should make a run for it now.

lose price...pfft are you serious race is gonna be a hab for life....and he's gonna be in his prime until his late 30's goalies are a different breed.

 

[Lebowski]

The Habs are one step away in dominating the league. Our defense and goal-tending are the best in the league, they only need a sniper now more than any time since the age of Lafleur.

Our defense is a far cry from being the best in the league. It looks alright on paper, but it's an entirely different story on the ice.

 

[Kraken Jokes]

There IS an in between...

Add a top-6 LW via trade (1st, prospect)
Move Galchenyuk to C
Trade Desharnais, Prust, Gilbert
Buyout Parenteau
Leave spot on each wing for prospect
Re-evaluate at deadline

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher
(top-6 LW) - Plekanec - Weise
DLR/(rookie) - Eller - Smith-Pelly
DLR/(rookie) - Mitchell - (rookie)

Bournival, Flynn

Markov - Subban
Emelin - Petry
Beaulieu - Pateryn

Tinordi

Doesn't seem impossible IF there's an appropriate LW available for futures. There's risk to trading top picks/prospects giving roster positions to 2 other prospects who may not be NHL ready but it's less risky than going all in right away having it not work out (injuries, UFAs leaving).

Could Boedker be available?

 

[mus1cx]

Going into 2015-2016, there seems to be two different trains of thought among HF Habs fans. Either we need to make a push for the Cup while our core is still young OR our core is still young enough that we should manage our assets and continue to draft high and develop our prospects.

Our core`s effective ages: Patches 26, Subban 26, Galchenyuk 21, Gallagher 23, Petry 27, Eller 27, Price 29, Weise 26 (arguably)

Still earning their spot: Beaulieu 22, De La Rose 20

Significant veterans: Plekanec 33, Markov 37

Top Prospects: Sherbak 19, McCarron 20, Tinordi 23, Reway 20, Hudon 21

The implications are this: If we are pushing for the Cup then we are keeping Markov and Plekanec and making our picks and prospects available in order to gain those pieces that will take us over the top. If we have time to continue our build, then we hold onto our picks and prospects and perhaps guys like Plekanec and Markov could be available for more picks or prospects.

We can`t be inbetweeners and hope that we can move players not listed above for significant assets, while waiting to see how guys like Galchenyuk, Beaulieu and our prospects develop.

Price is 27 right now and will turn 28 in August

 

[Smokey Thompson]

before we lose Price?

He'll be 30 looking for his last big contract. He'll have the luxury to sign just about anywhere he wants to for max value.

And if he does decide to stay here, we're looking at an 8 year $80m contract for a goaltender... There's no way to possibly win a cup with that kind of money given to a goaltender.

 

[Takeru]

lose price...pfft are you serious race is gonna be a hab for life....and he's gonna be in his prime until his late 30's goalies are a different breed.

We're not losing Price anytime soon, but you're kidding yourself if you believe he'll keep posting .937 seasons for the next decade. He'll still probably be very good, but his prime won't last forever.

 

[turbodragon]

Should we trade our core for picks/prospects or should we trade our prospects for established players? It'd be stupid to commit to one or the other approach.

Whether a trade is good always depends on what you get in return, and MB's been very good in that regard. Should we trade Pleks? If it's for a top 10 pick, of course, but for a second rounder, then no. Should we trade our first rounder? For Kessel, maybe, if we can make room for him on the cap, but not for Sharp.

The Petry and Vanek trade were great in that regards. We gave away 2nd rounders to gain the edge in signing players we needed long term (no matter what happened afterwards). On the other side, Gorges for a second was great too. I hope MB continues to handle things just the way he's been doing it.

 

[Shawarma*]

Both. If a team like the Hawks has shown anything, you don't need to do one at the expense of another.