HF Habs: When will the Habs have an elite forward?

[Habs Halifax]

The word "elite" has different meanings to different people.

I voted two years as I think that Suzuki can be a top-15 center.

Agreed. Elite needs to be defined cause it has different meaning depending on each fan. Elite to me is top pairing, 1st line, or top 10 goalie.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Are we calling patches a supstar foward now lol

Superstar vs Elite? That has different meaning to me. Price was a star, Patch was elite (1st line talent). Subban was elite and a fringe star (easy for me to say that today though in hindsight). Back when, some would have said he was a star

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yeah, it’s not close. Pacioretty was probably more consistent because he managed to stay healthier but Gaborik was a legitimate game breaking talent.

Interesting comparable... Both really produced at different areas playing with limited talent on their teams right? Patch was one of the best 200' wingers and still is today and Gaborik was a offensive threat every shift.

Who's better? PLD or Aho? If you value offensive players more than complete players (200' game), you would say Aho.

 

[dcyhabs]

Why would you call them a top 10 pick when he was a top 3 one? Would you call a 1st overall a top 10 pick??

The point is a 3rd OV or top 3 pick, is a very valuable asset before you even make a selection. We devalued that asset when selecting Galchenyuk and not getting the most out of his potential. Over time we managed to transform that into Anderson so it could still work out, but it's still a drop in value imo.
KK is still unknown at this point.

Galchenyuk was a good pick in a bad draft. One of those years where if you could trade for the same pick next year you would do it.

KK was a reach and we'll see if he ends up being better than other options. He was a pick for need and the need changed after the pick as it almost always does. Not a terrible pick, and has the potential to be great, but a bit of a reach. We'll see if he ends up better than Zadina and Tkachuk (not considering Hughes in this case though Vancouver did well with him).

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think Suzuki will be one, I also think Caufield will be one, so I’ll say we will have 2 within 3 years.

I think Suzuki is ready to take a huge jump forward this season. He's 21 and on a steep uphill curve (His development resume is impressive). He's going to get legit wingers and a full season at center and PP time. 1st line center or fringe 1st line center after this season IMO. If not, we will be disappointed.

Caufield to me will have to be sheltered at 5/5 but in open space (PP and 4/4, 3/3) his is going to be dangerous. Caufield will have a substantial adjustment to less time and space once he turns pro

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

With those standards one could say Max Pacioretty?

And Alex Kovalev

 

[Tabarouette]

I love Suzuki but like, yeah I don't think everyone has the same definition of "elite" in here

I want a 90+ points player on a yearly basis for once in my life, that's elite to me and we haven't had that since like... Damphousse in the early 90s? we're starving here

 

[Tyson]

When someone hits 40 goals or 90+points we can say we have an elite forward

 

[domiwroze]

It's either 3 years or 5+

Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, Caufield, Norlinder have the potentiel, if not one of them, I don't see us drafting top10 in the next 5 years either.

 

[Habricot]

Yeah, it’s not close. Pacioretty was probably more consistent because he managed to stay healthier but Gaborik was a legitimate game breaking talent.

A legitimate game breaking "talent" definitly. A legitimate game breaking player definitly NOT. I think pacioretty was singnificantly slowed down by his freak injurry from Chara. He belongs in that discussion for sure and considering his impact on a talent decimated team and his play without the puck I would even put him ahead of Gaborik. But that is just me.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

I love Suzuki but like, yeah I don't think everyone has the same definition of "elite" in here

I want a 90+ points player on a yearly basis for once in my life, that's elite to me and we haven't had that since like... Damphousse in the early 90s? we're starving here

Even that is iffy, I mean production throughout the league in the years Vinny did that was quite high. If we can get a PPG player I think that’s enough for me to happy and considered an elite player.

 

[CauZuki]

Who would you consider to be "elite" from the past 30 years?

• Pacioretty
• Radulov
• Plekanec
• Kovalev
• Koivu
• Ryder
• Ribeiro
• Rucinsky
• Savage
• Recchi
• Damphousse
• Corson
• Turgeon
• Bellows
• Muller
• Lebeau
• Leclair
• Savard
• Courtnall
• Richer

Pacioretty was an elite goal scorer no dispute on that for me , top 4 in goal scoring in the league over half a decade...If that's not elite production then what is?

Pacioretty had defensive issues , mediocre passing skills and didn't always show up in the playoffs but that's another story.

 

[Habricot]

Its an interesting discussion. In my opinion only generational talent can become Elite without a supporting cast that is truly talented. I would name guys like Mackinnon, Crosby, Draisaitl, McDavid to name a few.

Sometime to develop talent you need talent. For a guy like Drouin to reach his full potential you need a guy like Suzuki.. is it too late? not Sure. To develop a guy like KK you need wingers that are top quality (at least one) so you can create a Duo like Schiefle and Wheeler. I think we might have this between KK and one of Toffoli or Anderson. I mean a good example is Zibanejad in NYR .. over a point per game last season but playing with other guys that can be Elite. Look at the stats how the evolved with time.

So on these notes I would say 2 years from now and we have 3 potential player that could be considered Elite: KK, Suzuki and Drouin. I would consider them in order of there ceiling. KK is no where near Suzuki now but I feel the ceiling will be higher. If they reach there full potential it would like having a 1-2 punch of Kopitar (KK) and Oreilley (Suzuki) at there prime.

 

[BLONG7]

If we can ever land a coach, who let the offensive minded players play the game, then maybe we can have an elite forward.
If we let Suzuki out of the barn, with his new wingers, maybe he can get us some big pojnts, ala his JR career.

 

[dcyhabs]

Pacioretty was an elite goal scorer no dispute on that for me , top 4 in goal scoring in the league over half a decade...If that's not elite production then what is?

Pacioretty had defensive issues , mediocre passing skills and didn't always show up in the playoffs but that's another story.

His passing may not have been elite but he got PK time. I'm not sure I saw the defensive issues.

 

[CauZuki]

His passing may not have been elite but he got PK time. I'm not sure I saw the defensive issues.

Often times he wouldn't use his speed to backcheck but all of a sudden he'd be good to use it for an offensive zone entry. Did you ever notice how fast Pacioretty skated to get an EN goal? I would say in his prime (before the incident) top 10/15 skater in the NHL (straight line speed). When it came to using that speed in defensive situation let's just say it was mixed results...

I liked Pacioretty a lot in his time here , he was unjustifiably villified especially as Captain. He's one of the few prospects that developed properly in an era of toxic management. So kudos for him still being able to produce nicely in VGK.

 

[Tyson]

It's either 3 years or 5+

Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, Caufield, Norlinder have the potentiel, if not one of them, I don't see us drafting top10 in the next 5 years either.

Norlinder exactly what has he done to justify being such an awesome prospect? His numbers are non existent. I just don't get the hype

 

[domiwroze]

Norlinder exactly what has he done to justify being such an awesome prospect? His numbers are non existent. I just don't get the hype

Keyword is Potential

 

[Tyson]

Keyword is Potential

Based on where he was drafted and not being able to really crack the top league in Sweden tells me the hype ain't real. Habs have several D prospects with higher upside.

 

[domiwroze]

Based on where he was drafted and not being able to really crack the top league in Sweden tells me the hype ain't real. Habs have several D prospects with higher upside.

You might be right, Norlinder has the natural talent to be what some expect him to be. He might end up as a Career SHL tho, time will tell!

 

[MarkJ]

Next season when Ovechkin doesn't re-sign with the Caps.

 

[admiralcadillac]

No one is elite until we have a player putting up minimally 70 goal, 150 point seasons for 35 straight years while playing 40+ minutes a night of strong two-way play.

 

[LaP]

Even that is iffy, I mean production throughout the league in the years Vinny did that was quite high. If we can get a PPG player I think that’s enough for me to happy and considered an elite player.

The best season by Damphousse prorated to other players was 95-96. He was 20th in the league for points that year and 21st for goals. If we take the last full season 20th for points is 84 points and 21st for goals is 35 goals. So you still need to be a ppg player to be an equivalent to Damphousse as well as being a 30+ goals scorer. 30-35 goals AND 75-85 points in today's NHL is no slouch and in his prime Damphousse was doing it pretty much on yearly basis (from 89 to 96).

You can make a case for Patch being equivalent to Damphousse as a goal scorer but not as a player overall Damphousse was a better playmaker and a more complete player able to shine in close area and handle the dirty play of the 80ies and 90ies era. I don'T think we had a player like him in the last 20 years outside of that one great season by Kovalev.