A1LeafNation
Obsession beats talent everytime!!
- Oct 17, 2010
- 27,489
- 17,494
When is the season ender press conference?
- Thread starter nuck
- Start date
i have posted that shanny should be fired but i won't freak if he is not
it was he who got Lou and Babs and talked the board into blowing the disaster kessel era up
and then he got flat out conned by dumbass and blew up all his great works of prior.
you should hate the barrie answer brother
babs tried to make barrie a useful playoff Dman
Keefe just let him loose and then proved Babs right,,a loose barrie is a useless playoff Dman
do you think this is a time to be pandering to those workers?
frankly, i think pssing off these over payed players is the way to got
Bomber0104
Registered User
there is LITERALLY and i mean LITERALLY no team in the league that dubas has any right at all to comment/compare
his/their scoring depth after other teams top 4 Fs are excluded
every other team has more money to top up their depth scoring
my gawd, i throw up every time i hear we put a 33.5 million dollar forward line together
AND THEY GOT SHUT OUT!!!!!
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that is the "problem" babs had
he was a step ahead of most folks,,,, in his thinking
,, once they finally catch up to the thought process.not many people look back and reflect, and realize how wrong they got it
and what is it i hear now??? "maybe we need more grit/size/playoff style players ect ect
wowz, the EXACT players that babs needed, pushed for and warned us about,,,aka "real MEN"
Bomber0104
Registered User
then what is the bloody point of getting guys for 1 season if you truly believe that hollow excuse?
put in a position to succeed? well then it was keefe who failed Barrie,,keefe let him loose and he utterly and truly failed when it counted,,against the jackets
now if you are talking about succeeding in saving/helping the price point for next years contract,,then yes keefe helped more then Babs
but babs gave no shit about his reg season numbers so he could get PAIDDDD,,,he was trying to make him into a effective playoff defenceman. Keefe surely did not do that,,even AFTER he hid him on the friggen 3rd pair
Trapper
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2013
- 23,780
- 11,077
You’re preaching to the choir.
Most don’t want to hear it or acknowledge we need to be harder to play against, better forecheck, harder D system.
Even when players on the team like Muzzin come out and say it, nope, if Dubas isn’t saying or doing it, it’s not a problem.
We said this team needed a coach change if nothing else but to expose the collection and/or build. How long before Keefe had to call out the team. Then the Zamboni incident. Nylander I want to be dominate. Marner I wasn’t engaged.
Like Shanahan, words aren’t going to cut it. It’s right there. Team needs to get harder to play against with more intensity.
and we don't have many personality's on this roster that i believe will evolve into what we need
i have watched now every match up in these real playoffs
and words do not do justice,, when trying to describe how
we look against those 16,,,,,, i repeat 16 other teamsthis roster is nothing but gutless
lead by the queen of them all DubassShanahan twisted his words to sound better but what he means when he said we can’t just flip a switch and play playoff hockey,it needs to start in the season
he means no more of this f***en pond hockey passing and more getting pucks and crash the net. No one cares Matthews that you can score 3 goals from the top of the circle, get the f*** to the net and score 1 gritty goal instead because that’s all you get in the playoffs.
he means no more of this f***en pond hockey passing and more getting pucks and crash the net. No one cares Matthews that you can score 3 goals from the top of the circle, get the f*** to the net and score 1 gritty goal instead because that’s all you get in the playoffs.
there is 1 thing that vexes me beyond even my ability's
how in gawds name did shanny( the exact player desired for the POs) and had the GM LOU/coach Babs in perfect position for a playoff team and then get convinced to blow it?
i don't care what anyone says,,,,, choosing dumbass over lou is a career altering mistake
that lead to lou/ babs gone ,,kadri gone,,,2 firsts shipped out for a 1rst round out and a fail to even make the POs
our cap is destroyed as we type this
Barrie is an interesting case.
1. I think the coach should put players in roles they could succeed. Bc if all the players are in roles at their max, the team should win.
2. Coach should also help the players to improve their game and become a more well rounded player. I don’t believe that a 30 yrs vet can no longer improve their game while a 22yrs old can bc of their age diff. If anything, I would say an older player might over think due to having more exp.
3. The above are all based on physical limits, like the old Basketball saying, you can’t teach height.
Back to Barrie, what I find interesting is that Babs got a very strict way of how his team is play. Like he wants his team to play his ways and the players need to adjust their game to that or they will struggle. Not just Barrie but guys like Polak, Martin, Carrick, Leivo, and to some extend Leo. These players were barely handing on with the Leafs, and some couldn’t even crack the lineup but when they are on other teams, they seem to be fine for their roles.
Keefe on the other hand play their players to their strengths and make adjustments to form his team plan while tried to find the optimal point between his players strengths and his version of the team.
Ultimately, the W is the most important thing.
I don’t know what happened to Barrie since if he is such a liability on D like he has shown as a Leafs, there is no way he could still be in the league for this long. His offence is good but not to the point where coaches can over look his defence.
IMO, Barrie might just had his worst season as a NHLer and it just so happened to be in TO.
to what i bolded
i am honestly confused
Polak is not dressed for Dallas/
/Leivo is not dressed for Van,
,Leo is gettin 3rd line time/ in leaf land,,old/slow no offence,,for NYI a playoff team,,,a useful role player
/martin 4th line,,in leaf land,,a useless dinosaur ,,for NYI ,a team IN the playoffs,, a useful role player
and carrick just split his season between the nhl/ahl for the devils,,,
our issue is that we think our 3rd/4th liners should have "speed/skill" before any other aspect of their game and i feel that is dead wrong
hell,, we are bitching that our 4th line C only got 7 goals
those that are drinking dubass cool aid are dead wrong
nuck
Schrodingers Cat
- Aug 18, 2005
- 11,420
- 2,491
I watched the interview again after I had cooled of a bit
Briefly, they are not really calling this a failure and even though they lost a close series to a 9th seeded team they feel they are close to success. Babs under the bus, Ceci and Barrie were still good trades, apparently the GM was supposed to somehow make them more comfortable. No mention of how long the back goalie situation took to straighten out which to me was maybe the one thing Dubas should have owned but didn't, and which really messed with the first 6 weeks of their season. I guess that could have been making an excuse for the Babcock start which would have messed with the under the bus thing.
I think the "fire his ass group " includes those of us that genuinely want him out before he screws things up worse, vs those of us who are a little less bitter that just want him to maybe trade some of that high end offense for some high end D. If you are in the latter group as I am, you want him to admit that his model may be a bit flawed as the relatively low GAA for the series was offset by a lack of scoring. So our team can play better D but when we do our $40M top 4 forwards start shooting blanks.
This is where he seems to be missing it. Two of those guys could be gone for cheap plumbers and the offense would still manage the same 2g a game but they would have another $20M to spend on defense. So they are only "close"if that means their gunslingers are close to scoring like two way 3rd liners.
Having said all that, I think the only reason most people are annoyed is that the presser could be construed as an endorsement of last years lineup and an indication we are going to see something extremely similar to that again. I don't think that was actually said. I don't think "having faith in this core" means that one of them would never be switched out for another core player. It would have made no sense for him to they needed to do some kind of a retool, that can wait for when they actually do something. Now there is a really good chance they can't make the big deal and the changes will be a Kerfoot here or a Mango there but I didn't hear them announce that and I think I am going to wait until training camp to decide how much change KD is really open to. I am not surprised he didn't make a list of the specific weaknesses and how he would address them. It doesn't make much sense to get bent out of shape about next seasons lineup until we actually see it.
Briefly, they are not really calling this a failure and even though they lost a close series to a 9th seeded team they feel they are close to success. Babs under the bus, Ceci and Barrie were still good trades, apparently the GM was supposed to somehow make them more comfortable. No mention of how long the back goalie situation took to straighten out which to me was maybe the one thing Dubas should have owned but didn't, and which really messed with the first 6 weeks of their season. I guess that could have been making an excuse for the Babcock start which would have messed with the under the bus thing.
I think the "fire his ass group " includes those of us that genuinely want him out before he screws things up worse, vs those of us who are a little less bitter that just want him to maybe trade some of that high end offense for some high end D. If you are in the latter group as I am, you want him to admit that his model may be a bit flawed as the relatively low GAA for the series was offset by a lack of scoring. So our team can play better D but when we do our $40M top 4 forwards start shooting blanks.
This is where he seems to be missing it. Two of those guys could be gone for cheap plumbers and the offense would still manage the same 2g a game but they would have another $20M to spend on defense. So they are only "close"if that means their gunslingers are close to scoring like two way 3rd liners.Having said all that, I think the only reason most people are annoyed is that the presser could be construed as an endorsement of last years lineup and an indication we are going to see something extremely similar to that again. I don't think that was actually said. I don't think "having faith in this core" means that one of them would never be switched out for another core player. It would have made no sense for him to they needed to do some kind of a retool, that can wait for when they actually do something. Now there is a really good chance they can't make the big deal and the changes will be a Kerfoot here or a Mango there but I didn't hear them announce that and I think I am going to wait until training camp to decide how much change KD is really open to. I am not surprised he didn't make a list of the specific weaknesses and how he would address them. It doesn't make much sense to get bent out of shape about next seasons lineup until we actually see it.
this season started withI watched the interview again after I had cooled of a bit
Briefly, they are not really calling this a failure and even though they lost a close series to a 9th seeded team they feel they are close to success. Babs under the bus, Ceci and Barrie were still good trades, apparently the GM was supposed to somehow make them more comfortable. No mention of how long the back goalie situation took to straighten out which to me was maybe the one thing Dubas should have owned but didn't, and which really messed with the first 6 weeks of their season. I guess that could have been making an excuse for the Babcock start which would have messed with the under the bus thing.
I think the "fire his ass group " includes those of us that genuinely want him out before he screws things up worse, vs those of us who are a little less bitter that just want him to maybe trade some of that high end offense for some high end D. If you are in the latter group as I am, you want him to admit that his model may be a bit flawed as the relatively low GAA for the series was offset by a lack of scoring. So our team can play better D but when we do our $40M top 4 forwards start shooting blanks.
Having said all that, I think the only reason most people are annoyed is that the presser could be construed as an endorsement of last years lineup and an indication we are going to see something extremely similar to that again. I don't think that was actually said. I don't think "having faith in this core" means that one of them would never be switched out for another core player. It would have made no sense for him to they needed to do some kind of a retool, that can wait for when they actually do something. Now there is a really good chance they can't make the big deal and the changes will be a Kerfoot here or a Mango there but I didn't hear them announce that and I think I am going to wait until training camp to decide how much change KD is really open to. I am not surprised he didn't make a list of the specific weaknesses and how he would address them. It doesn't make much sense to get bent out of shape about next seasons lineup until we actually see it.
"if egocock does not at the very least win a round or two it's a utter fail" fire him
to the old bait and switch "fire the coach",,"now we need time" ,,reset the clock for those above him and those on the ice,,lets bitch about our 7th D and 4th line C
patheticand here we are, we did not even make the POs with the EXACT SAME ROSTER that we demanded egocock get into the 2nd round or more
they failed to even make the POs and all i hear is crickets on that front.
it's truly amazing how folks can get suckered in.
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CantLoseWithMatthews
Registered User
- Sep 28, 2015
- 49,722
- 59,462
Barrie already was a useful playoff defenseman on Colorado. Babcock's attempt to "reinvent" him as a player failed spectacularly, and made him worse than useless
nuck
Schrodingers Cat
- Aug 18, 2005
- 11,420
- 2,491
this season started with
"if egocock does not at the very least win a round or two it's a utter fail" fire him
to the old bait and switch "fire the coach",,"now we need time" ,,reset the clock for those above him and those on the ice,,lets bitch about our 7th D and 4th line C
and here we are, we did not even make the POs with the EXACT SAME ROSTER that we demanded egocock get into the 2nd round or more
they failed to even make the POs and all i hear is crickets on that front.
it's truly amazing how folks can get suckered in.
Last year was a lot of personal bashing on Babcock and assessing his every decision as though it was him holding back success rather than the players. I don't know that it was necessarily pro KD, more just anti Babs. Keefe is still in the honeymoon period but give him another playoff fail and they will be on him just the same.
Funny though, we never heard much "Dubas has only been there a year, he needs time" last year it was clearly a coaching issue and now it isnt .
nuck
Schrodingers Cat
- Aug 18, 2005
- 11,420
- 2,491
Babcock was gone less than two months into the season. I doubt that Barrie was so traumatized that 8 months and 50 games later thats why he was invisible in the playoffs. I think the 3% shooting last season was on him. Sometimes veteran players don't adapt well after a trade and sometimes guys just have an off year. Remember Kaberle's offence imploding after he got dealt? I think that happens a lot more often than some kind of PTSD after 20 games under a new coach.
BayStBullies
Burn the Boats!
You don't undervalue your players publicly, especially not when you may be considering trades.
Polak came out and said he didn't want to play in the bubble. Now he was their 6/7 Dman but I would still rather have him than Marincin and even Barrie.
Leivo is injured and he was either on their 2nd or 3rd line with 2 PP time.
Carrick just not good but at least he showed he could be a 6/7 Dman.
From the president to the players, everyone with the Maple Leafs — OK, most everyone — is talking tough | The Star
It can give you the idea Shanahan, who was influential in keeping Babcock around when there was a move to fire him last off-season, is finally asserting more control over the operation. And maybe it helps explain why Dubas came off as so unappealingly petulant and overly defensive on Wednesday. While Shanahan was doing exactly what’s required in a post-loss media session — acknowledging the need to “face the music” while suggesting his club has “taken a step back in the past couple of years” — Dubas engaged in petty asides when anyone so much as hinted at questioning his top-heavy roster construction. The GM bizarrely went to bat in defence of Cody Ceci (Dubas condescendingly insisted he has data that indicates Ceci is better than the rest of us believe). He went on an unhinged tangent about the allegedly unwarranted criticism directed at Mitch Marner. Considering Marner had just admitted he “wasn’t engaged” in Game 1 against Columbus, Dubas calling the player’s critics “idiotic” was ineloquent at best.
If he sounds touchy, understand that Dubas is having his core beliefs questioned here. And while he hinted that this season’s acquisition of the undeniably sandpapery Kyle Clifford was evidence he is not finesse-obsessed to a fault, the fact Clifford played an average of eight minutes a game against the Blue Jackets didn’t exactly solidify the case. Muzzin’s Cup-ring-wearing presence stands as the only solid argument.
Pattern repeated sufficiently, it was fascinating to hear this week’s management-based acknowledgment of various Babcock-ian truths. Habits matter. The regular season sets the stage for the important games. As tiresome as it was to hear Babcock prattle on about the need to “do it right every day,” it’s hard to argue Babcock wasn’t right, every day. And as much as Keefe introduced himself as the anti-Babcock — insisting he’d focus on what the Leafs are more than what they are not — suddenly there’s an organizational realization that it’s what the Leafs are not that’s the problem.
“I do believe you can develop grit,” Shanahan said. “I do think players can change how they are perceived. But I also think we recognize that compete level and grit are areas we might have to help our team a little bit with.”
Let’s assume the “we” includes Dubas, even though Dubas said no such thing, even though about a year ago the GM made a major trade that flew directly in the face of that notion. Whatever the case, nine months after Babcock was shipped out, and after having unleashed their shackled skill and still been shut out twice in three playoff losses, it says something that the Maple Leafs are replaying Babcock’s greatest hits. It’s time to dig in, indeed. Somewhere, the ex-coach must be smiling.
It can give you the idea Shanahan, who was influential in keeping Babcock around when there was a move to fire him last off-season, is finally asserting more control over the operation. And maybe it helps explain why Dubas came off as so unappealingly petulant and overly defensive on Wednesday. While Shanahan was doing exactly what’s required in a post-loss media session — acknowledging the need to “face the music” while suggesting his club has “taken a step back in the past couple of years” — Dubas engaged in petty asides when anyone so much as hinted at questioning his top-heavy roster construction. The GM bizarrely went to bat in defence of Cody Ceci (Dubas condescendingly insisted he has data that indicates Ceci is better than the rest of us believe). He went on an unhinged tangent about the allegedly unwarranted criticism directed at Mitch Marner. Considering Marner had just admitted he “wasn’t engaged” in Game 1 against Columbus, Dubas calling the player’s critics “idiotic” was ineloquent at best.
If he sounds touchy, understand that Dubas is having his core beliefs questioned here. And while he hinted that this season’s acquisition of the undeniably sandpapery Kyle Clifford was evidence he is not finesse-obsessed to a fault, the fact Clifford played an average of eight minutes a game against the Blue Jackets didn’t exactly solidify the case. Muzzin’s Cup-ring-wearing presence stands as the only solid argument.
Pattern repeated sufficiently, it was fascinating to hear this week’s management-based acknowledgment of various Babcock-ian truths. Habits matter. The regular season sets the stage for the important games. As tiresome as it was to hear Babcock prattle on about the need to “do it right every day,” it’s hard to argue Babcock wasn’t right, every day. And as much as Keefe introduced himself as the anti-Babcock — insisting he’d focus on what the Leafs are more than what they are not — suddenly there’s an organizational realization that it’s what the Leafs are not that’s the problem.
“I do believe you can develop grit,” Shanahan said. “I do think players can change how they are perceived. But I also think we recognize that compete level and grit are areas we might have to help our team a little bit with.”
Let’s assume the “we” includes Dubas, even though Dubas said no such thing, even though about a year ago the GM made a major trade that flew directly in the face of that notion. Whatever the case, nine months after Babcock was shipped out, and after having unleashed their shackled skill and still been shut out twice in three playoff losses, it says something that the Maple Leafs are replaying Babcock’s greatest hits. It’s time to dig in, indeed. Somewhere, the ex-coach must be smiling.
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