Using that logic, Fleury earned that against Philly and Ottawa.
Perhaps goaltending isn't the problem with the Penguins right now. Think, don't knee-jerk.
When does Vokoun become the Pen's starter?
- Thread starter wgknestrick
- Start date
Using that logic, Fleury earned that against Philly and Ottawa.
Perhaps goaltending isn't the problem with the Penguins right now. Think, don't knee-jerk.
Fleury is overrated, and Vokoun is underrated. It's the perfect storm. Flower has a lot to live up to being a #1 draft pick and not impressing with shutouts night after night is a little much to live up to. He's not your typical goaltender, but he is a starter and a damn good one too.
Vokoun was a rock in Florida, and didn't really succeed in Washington, but he definitely will have two impressive years with The Pens. He's not looked at as "the man" where in Washington he was, and look how that ended up.
Fleury is only 28, his best hockey is ahead of him. I think he does a great job with the pressure everyone puts on him. He'll settle down and be fine.
After all, we're all Pens fans. If anything, be happy you have both on your team. Not Rick D. or Bryzgalov.
Vokoun was a rock in Florida, and didn't really succeed in Washington, but he definitely will have two impressive years with The Pens. He's not looked at as "the man" where in Washington he was, and look how that ended up.
Fleury is only 28, his best hockey is ahead of him. I think he does a great job with the pressure everyone puts on him. He'll settle down and be fine.
After all, we're all Pens fans. If anything, be happy you have both on your team. Not Rick D. or Bryzgalov.
I still find it hilarious that the original post insists the Penguins play worse in front of Fleury because they don't trust him. The games against Winnipeg when Vokoun started, and against Philly and Ottawa when MAF started discredit that idea.
Are excuses for MAF like that one still valid at age 28?
He's better than he's shown for the last while, yes. But the whole problem is that he seems unable to take ahold of any level of consistency in his career. As a goaltender, that's a bad thing.
You can be hot and cold as a goal scorer. Not a goalie.
He's better than he's shown for the last while, yes. But the whole problem is that he seems unable to take ahold of any level of consistency in his career. As a goaltender, that's a bad thing.
You can be hot and cold as a goal scorer. Not a goalie.
Allie Kitsune
...and the Brawla Brawla Sewitt
I think we've hit the point where MAF can't hide behind his high pitched voice and wispy mustache anymore. He needs to get his head right and settle **** down.
If he just can't do that, it's time to start making overtures in another direction.
If he just can't do that, it's time to start making overtures in another direction.
said it a million times, but we desperately need a new goalie coach.
it is *not* all on Fleury as our defense (particularly our forwards) has incredible mental lapses. That said, as a goalie myself (and an incredibly bad one) I can say that how the goalie plays absolutely has an effect on how the team plays. Vokoun is calm in net and doesn't give up a whole lot in the way of rebounds. Defenders can just let him see the shot and concentrate on the pass.
You can't tell me that players aren't starting to doubt fleury at least some, they would never say it, but there is no way there are not some linguring doubts. Heck Shero made a statement by getting Vokoun, and the beat reporters where all reporting after the philly debacle last spring that Management was not happy with Fleury at all. I am *NOT* saying the flyer loss was all on Fleury, but he certainly was part of the problem.
But Fleury's techinque is suspect at times, have no idea what he was doing on that breakaway goal against the isle where he flared his glove hand up which allowed the puck to squeak through or why he super over committed on that wrap around. Getting a new goalie coach could get a new voice in his ear. AND shake his world up a bit. I think there is a good chance Vokoun is our starter in the playoffs and that we tend towards a 60-40 Vokoun/Fleury split as the season goes on. UNLESS fleury responds like he did when Conklin was pushing him and gets his head out of his rear.
it is *not* all on Fleury as our defense (particularly our forwards) has incredible mental lapses. That said, as a goalie myself (and an incredibly bad one) I can say that how the goalie plays absolutely has an effect on how the team plays. Vokoun is calm in net and doesn't give up a whole lot in the way of rebounds. Defenders can just let him see the shot and concentrate on the pass.
You can't tell me that players aren't starting to doubt fleury at least some, they would never say it, but there is no way there are not some linguring doubts. Heck Shero made a statement by getting Vokoun, and the beat reporters where all reporting after the philly debacle last spring that Management was not happy with Fleury at all. I am *NOT* saying the flyer loss was all on Fleury, but he certainly was part of the problem.
But Fleury's techinque is suspect at times, have no idea what he was doing on that breakaway goal against the isle where he flared his glove hand up which allowed the puck to squeak through or why he super over committed on that wrap around. Getting a new goalie coach could get a new voice in his ear. AND shake his world up a bit. I think there is a good chance Vokoun is our starter in the playoffs and that we tend towards a 60-40 Vokoun/Fleury split as the season goes on. UNLESS fleury responds like he did when Conklin was pushing him and gets his head out of his rear.
wgknestrick
Registered User
- Aug 14, 2012
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Excellent post. I played D myself in front of a goalie tandem of vastly different skill levels. Unfortunately, we still had to give our backup his starts. Our team played terrible every game in front of him. I always felt in the back of my head, why try in those games? Backup will just let 3-4 goals slide under him or fall down, etc etc. I think this is more human nature than anything when dealing with an obvious weak link in a team. Unfortunately MAF is that weak link now. He has the talent to be one of the best. Hopefully he learns from TV.
I have been wondering what Meloche teaches MAF? I don't even remember Meloche working with MAF 1 time at practice. If I were responsible for MAF, the push-up, clowning around crap would end immediately at team practices and he would have to work on rebounds constantly. I would also tie a string on his glove hand to his helmet so he can't lower it down to his hip.
Malkin4Top6Wingerz
Can you like, shutup
- Mar 14, 2009
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I wonder if their goalie had something to do with that.
I wonder if their goalie had something to do with that.
I wonder if our goalie had something to do with that.
Bennett Brauer
Registered User
Richard
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- Feb 8, 2012
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sell. I see players on the ice lacking confidence in him. I see the same mistakes being made as when he first entered the league. I see a lack of confidence.
I blame both Fleury and the Penguin management. I doubt anyone could see how that 18 year old fleury could not be a superstar after that game against the Kings in 2003. Ten years later and he is nothing more than a bottom tier starter. Unbelievable. His development was gross negligence by the Pens but at this point its on Fleury. Either perform or dont.
I dont think there is impossible he gets traded, but a goalie has to come back in the deal. Vokoun aint getting any younger, but i have no doubt he can carry the load at least the 2 year he has on his current contract.
Im not basing this on just this seasons small sample btw. I have entertained the thought of trading Fleury for a year or so now. I think he still has value since he COULD turn it around, but i have a feeling he has a better chance of doing it somewhere else. Too much pressure and the fact the team lacking confidence im him. The lack of confidence are a big problem imo. It leads to players overplaying the shooter because they doesnt have the confidence in leaving the shot to Fleury. And that ofc leads to open backdoor plays. I have lost count of how many times a players are wide open. And althoug it is a small sample, im seeing the defense pick up the open man and let Vokoun play the shooter mor than when Fleury is in the net.
Im not basing this on just this seasons small sample btw. I have entertained the thought of trading Fleury for a year or so now. I think he still has value since he COULD turn it around, but i have a feeling he has a better chance of doing it somewhere else. Too much pressure and the fact the team lacking confidence im him. The lack of confidence are a big problem imo. It leads to players overplaying the shooter because they doesnt have the confidence in leaving the shot to Fleury. And that ofc leads to open backdoor plays. I have lost count of how many times a players are wide open. And althoug it is a small sample, im seeing the defense pick up the open man and let Vokoun play the shooter mor than when Fleury is in the net.
mpp9
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- Dec 5, 2010
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Having a goalie who can handle the puck makes us a much harder team to play against. With how our defense is trained to retrieve pucks quickly, having a proper puck mover in goal makes us one of the hardest teams in the league to get sustained pressure against.
I'd take a goalie with that skillset and who's able to make the saves he should on a regular basis rather than Fleury.
But that's me.
I'd take a goalie with that skillset and who's able to make the saves he should on a regular basis rather than Fleury.
But that's me.
Shady Machine
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- Aug 6, 2010
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Buy. Fleury is definitely staying. We have no one better to replace him with and there is very little in the pipeline.
buy or sell, tough. If Fleury returns to the Conklin year (I refer to that because it's the only time he was really pushed) level of play Pens will keep him and we will at least go the ECF. If we don't get past the first round I see him gone, Shero was flamming mad last year after our debacle and Fleury pretty much has this season to get it right or get gone.
Once again though, Shero why on earth don't you get a different goalie coach in, drill the crap out Fleury to hammer better mechanics into his 2 cent head.
Once again though, Shero why on earth don't you get a different goalie coach in, drill the crap out Fleury to hammer better mechanics into his 2 cent head.
Remember when Fleury said "oh ****" on national tv after winning the cup...that was awesomeI'm waiting for you to carry my bags. From reading your posts, that seems to be the greatest thing you'll accomplish in life.
I also remember lack of scoring against Montreal, 1 for 35 on the PP against Tampa Bay, and poor special teams against Philly. Nah, that has nothing to do with it!
Please don't even try to defend him in the Montreal series. The Penguins more than doubled their shot output and scoring chance output that series. They scored way more than enough to win, and gave up hardly any scoring opportunities. Fleury was letting in off wing writers all series with no sustained pressure.
No decent goalie does that, and especially no elite goalie.
Fleury single handedly lost that series.
mrzeigler
.. but I'm not wrong
Am I the only person who thinks that the notion of having a clearly defined starter and backup is ridiculous this season, at least until we get to the final month of the season?
Regardless of who is named starter, the backup will get 18-24 starts this season, and with that even of a split, this issue is, except for the few weeks leading into the playoffs, irrelevant.
Regardless of who is named starter, the backup will get 18-24 starts this season, and with that even of a split, this issue is, except for the few weeks leading into the playoffs, irrelevant.
NastyNick
Registered User
The Montreal series made me doubt Fleury, but i think the moment i turned happened during the Tampa series. Tyler Kennedy took a snap wrister from the dots short side that Roloson was able to save. 1 minute later Sean Bergenheim took the exact same shot on Fleury from the same spot on the other side of the ice.. and it went right into the net.
I think of what this team could have accomplished in those last 3 years if they had proper goaltending. They could have beaten Montreal to get to the conference finals vs Philly.. who knows, maybe a trip to the finals vs Chicago. They could have beaten Tampa and.. well probably lose to Boston. The Flyer series last year was just brutal.. who knows how far that team could have gone had they gotten some confidence in their defense.
We love to praise Fleury like he was the sole reason this team won a cup.. but i think its more likely hes cost us way more then hes earned.
I think of what this team could have accomplished in those last 3 years if they had proper goaltending. They could have beaten Montreal to get to the conference finals vs Philly.. who knows, maybe a trip to the finals vs Chicago. They could have beaten Tampa and.. well probably lose to Boston. The Flyer series last year was just brutal.. who knows how far that team could have gone had they gotten some confidence in their defense.
We love to praise Fleury like he was the sole reason this team won a cup.. but i think its more likely hes cost us way more then hes earned.
NastyNick
Registered User
More like the Pre-Crosby and Pre-Malkin days. The days of bad goaltending never really ended... we just got really good goal scorers. And if you listen to Shockmaster, the team just needs to score more powerplay goals. I think even the most loyal Fleury supporter understands that he can't keep pucks out of the net. Score-more. I love it. Fleury should put that on the back of his jersey.
HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
Oh, it's time for the annual "MAF sucks" debate. How awesome.
It's like this is a greatest hits season. Do we get to have a "Trade X for Y who used to play here and is totally ancient now" moment too?
Maybe someone can post about puck poise too? That'd be super, if yinz are taking requests.
It's like this is a greatest hits season. Do we get to have a "Trade X for Y who used to play here and is totally ancient now" moment too?
Maybe someone can post about puck poise too? That'd be super, if yinz are taking requests.
Til the End of Time
Registered User
mrzeigler
.. but I'm not wrong
I suggest we change the thread title to "MAF just became the winning goalie in franchise history — let's get rid of him."
