When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[Bank Shot]

Yzerman had to scrap Holland's failed attempt at a desolate rebuild and start over. And start over he did. Look at all the assets in the system, some being franchise players... All without having a top 3 pick. That's incredible!

What are you talking about?

He had 11 picks in his first draft. Other GMs have started in worse places.

The Yzerplan looks a lot like a continuation of the Hollandplan. Sign vets, stockpile picks.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Yzerman ran the 2019 draft, so it's 2018-19 ranking that he inherited

TSP: 2018 NHL Organizational Prospect Rankings Top 10

We complete our series with a look at the Top 10 NHL Organizational Prospect Rankings, Check out who takes the top spot in 2018.

lastwordonsports.com

9th

Pronman: 2018-19 NHL farm system rankings

With young talent the key to every NHL franchise, check out how each team's pool of prospects ranks and who are the stars of tomorrow.

theathletic.com

7th

NHL farm system rankings: Best, worst prospect pipelines for 2018-19, from 1 to 31 | Sporting News

www.sportingnews.com

10th


& So on and son

The cupboard was top tier, then add 2019 6OA, & 3 x 2nds (35, 54, 60)


It's silly and flat out false to suggest that Yzerman inherited anything less than a great prospect/draft capital situation

In hindsight that 2018-19 pool had many disappointments, but Zadina was every bit as good, if not a better prospect than the guys currently in the wings pool...

Everything you posted was from August, 2018 right after the 18 draft.

By 2019 when Yzerman took over, the only one who still had them in the top 10 was Pronman who ironically called Zadina and Veleno elite while calling Seider questionable, so he’s kind of Anna idot

 

[norrisnick]

Might be a bit over valuing your players a tad lol

Imo someone like Mcdavid and Mackinnon would be " game breaking franchise forwards " or Makar would be one you could call for a Dman.

The Wings do have a good up and coming team though!

If those are what qualifies waaay more than just the Wings rebuild are in trouble..

 

[RedHawkDown]

I wonder what teams have done better in the same time frame (since 2019?) are there any teams that were bottom 5 in 2020 and are now a playoff team? Out of the entire bottom 10, only LA is a playoff team now, and they retooled instead of rebuilt as they obviously had Kopi/Doughty.

I’m just unclear as to who is doing better than yzerman in the same time frame?

The other teams were Ottawa, Anaheim, SJS, Buffalo, NJ, MTL, Chicago, Arizona. I see only NJ that had a good year last year. Detroit has made more progress than every other team on the list.

Are all of these also failed rebuilds ?

 

[Miller Time]

Everything you posted was from August, 2018 right after the 18 draft.

By 2019 when Yzerman took over, the only one who still had them in the top 10 was Pronman who ironically called Zadina and Veleno elite while calling Seider questionable, so he’s kind of Anna idot

?

NHL farm system rankings: Best, worst prospect pipelines for 2019-20, from 1 to 31 | Sporting News Canada

www.sportingnews.com

Try again lol

Hindsight is not a concept you seem to understand.

There isn't an NHL GM or scouting expert that hadn't been wrong about a top prospect... Guess everyone but you & your crystal ball are idiots, right

 

[Lampedampe]

Pardon me? In no particular order
1. Weber and Price's LTIR Contracts made the cap situation un workable literally we would've carried 8-10M of dead cap per season. Turned that into an expiring contract within one year.

2. Caufield in HuGo's 1st season scored 1 goal before Hughes/Gorton got hired and was being labelled a bust on these boards. They hire MSL and he's taken off since then, in fact any player who walks in says how MSL is one of the best coaches they've ever had and it's been alluded to by many insiders that players in the league are interested in playing for him.

3. Our analytics department didn't exist, they've literally stood up an entirely new department and drastically expanded another (development) with one of the best in the business running both of them. Since then we've seen consistent improvement in the quality and number of players being developed

4. you alluded to 1st overall, but they faced one of the more challenging 1st overall picks in recent memory and look like they've made the right call.

5. Traded from a position of strength (romanov) to address a position of weakness (Dach), has done this numerous times. Cap Space for monahan, Petry for Matheson,

The fanbase in Montreal is very supportive of HuGo right now because they have a vision, communicate clearly and make decisions that align to that vision

Lol, pardon me?

Kent Hughes has done a great job in my book. But he did not inherit worse situation than Yzerman, which was the point of the poster I quoted, and the point that I refuted.

Come again if you wanna argue how Kent Hughes had a worse starting point compared than Yzerman. I'll gladly talk about that, because I don't think we disagree on how Hughes is doing as GM....

 

[Dotter]

What are you talking about?

He had 11 picks in his first draft. Other GMs have started in worse places.

The Yzerplan looks a lot like a continuation of the Hollandplan. Sign vets, stockpile picks.

You do realize Yzerman got the GM job with the DRWs literally weeks before the 2019 draft? I doubt you do. Because your comment suggests you don't have a freaking clue.

How does one rebuild an entire scouting staff from bottom up in like 10 days? Lol


Yzerman was stuck using Ken Holland's failed hockey staff. The only guy Yzerman kept was Hakan Andersson, who was the guy responsible for finding Lidstrom, Fedorov, Zetterberg, Datsyuk among others. His NA scouting staff was trash.

Despite all that, SFY selected arguably the top 2, if not the best player of the 2019 draft with his 6th selection. That is the perfect example of how incredible Yzerman is. Yzerman is building a powerhouse. Soon people like you who are clueless with find out.

Bask in the fact Detroit is still rebuilding and didn't make the playoffs. Soon your smugness will smack you right in the face.... and you'll get a big taste of humble pie. Yum.Yum!

 

[Lampedampe]

?

NHL farm system rankings: Best, worst prospect pipelines for 2019-20, from 1 to 31 | Sporting News Canada

www.sportingnews.com

Try again lol

Hindsight is not a concept you seem to understand.

There isn't an NHL GM or scouting expert that hadn't been wrong about a top prospect... Guess everyone but you & your crystal ball are idiots, right

What are you even talking about?

You mean to say that Yzerman should have traded the prospects he inherited? Like most sane GM's, going around trading away their prospect pool mid rebuild.

 

[Bank Shot]

I wonder what teams have done better in the same time frame (since 2019?) are there any teams that were bottom 5 in 2020 and are now a playoff team? Out of the entire bottom 10, only LA is a playoff team now, and they retooled instead of rebuilt as they obviously had Kopi/Doughty.

I’m just unclear as to who is doing better than yzerman in the same time frame?

The other teams were Ottawa, Anaheim, SJS, Buffalo, NJ, MTL, Chicago, Arizona. I see only NJ that had a good year last year. Detroit has made more progress than every other team on the list.

Are all of these also failed rebuilds ?

LA.
Philly was bottom 5 and are in about the same spot as Detroit.
Kraken were terrible their first year and made the playoffs last season. (Same kind of shooting % as the Wings this year btw)
New Jersey was bottom five and made the playoffs last year.

I mean if you go back a little further you can find a tonne of teams that went from bottom five to playoffs in 5 seasons.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Despite all that, SFY selected arguably the top 2, if not the best player of the 2019 draft with his 6th selection. That is the perfect example of how incredible Yzerman is.

Someone needs to tell you this since you've mentioned it a few times, nobody outside of you and a few other Red Wings fans thinks Moritz Seider is better than Jack Hughes. Nobody.

It's nice that you generously toss out terms like "franchise gamebreaking talent" for second year AHL players. A few good selections with high draft picks is good and all, pal, but even if he is a top 2 player from the draft that just means teams drafting higher didn't make the right selection. You're supposed to get good players when you draft 4th and 6th. Not missing is great, but "incredible" is really overselling it. Where all the incredible non Round 1 selections from 2019 and 2020 at?

 

[Bank Shot]

Someone needs to tell you this since you've mentioned it a few times, nobody outside of you and a few other Red Wings fans thinks Moritz Seider is better than Jack Hughes. Nobody.

It's nice that you generously toss out terms like "franchise gamebreaking talent" for second year AHL players. A few good selections with high draft picks is good and all, pal, but even if he is a top 2 player from the draft that just means teams drafting higher didn't make the right selection. You're supposed to get good players when you draft 4th and 6th. Not missing is great, but "incredible" is really overselling it. Where all the incredible non Round 1 selections from 2019 and 2020 at?

They only had 6 second round picks in those two draft years. Can't be expected to nail them all.

 

[RedHawkDown]

LA.
Philly was bottom 5 and are in about the same spot as Detroit.
Kraken were terrible their first year and made the playoffs last season. (Same kind of shooting % as the Wings this year btw)
New Jersey was bottom five and made the playoffs last year.

I mean if you go back a little further you can find a tonne of teams that went from bottom five to playoffs in 5 seasons.

I hope you have the reasoning ability to understand how LA was in a totally different position already having their two best players in Kopitar and Doughty on the roster. They retooled, they didn’t rebuild.

Kraken are an expansion team…once again not comparable.

NJ being shit this year kind of goes against your point, does it not? You’re telling me if Detroit made the playoffs last year and took a huge step back this year, you would be singing the praises of the Yzerplan?

There are few if any teams that went from a full scorched earth rebuild to consistent competitiveness/playoffs in less than 5 seasons. Chicago is one, at 4 years after they bottomed out in 2004. Pittsburgh with both Malkin and Crosby, made it 4 years after they finished bottom 5 in 2002, but were out in 5 games. Tampa made it once in 10-11 which was 2 years after Stamkos was drafted, but then missed for another two seasons and wouldn’t make it back until 13-14, five years after Stamkos was drafted.

If Detroit takes a big step back next year, I completely agree that Yzerman should be criticized heavily. But for now…the team missed the playoffs by 0 points on a tiebreaker and has improved every year since he arrived, without a single top 3 pick like the other above teams had. I don’t see how it’s so different from every other rebuild.

 

[Dotter]

Someone needs to tell you this since you've mentioned it a few times, nobody outside of you and a few other Red Wings fans thinks Moritz Seider is better than Jack Hughes. Nobody.

It's nice that you generously toss out terms like "franchise gamebreaking talent" for second year AHL players. A few good selections with high draft picks is good and all, pal, but even if he is a top 2 player from the draft that just means teams drafting higher didn't make the right selection. You're supposed to get good players when you draft 4th and 6th. Not missing is great, but "incredible" is really overselling it. Where all the incredible non Round 1 selections from 2019 and 2020 at?

Check back in a few years. It might be closer than you think.

 

[Bank Shot]

I hope you have the reasoning ability to understand how LA was in a totally different position already having their two best players in Kopitar and Doughty on the roster. They retooled, they didn’t rebuild.

Kraken are an expansion team…once again not comparable.

NJ being shit this year kind of goes against your point, does it not? You’re telling me if Detroit made the playoffs last year and took a huge step back this year, you would be singing the praises of the Yzerplan?

There are few if any teams that went from a full scorched earth rebuild to consistent competitiveness/playoffs in less than 5 seasons. Chicago is one, at 4 years after they bottomed out in 2004. Pittsburgh with both Malkin and Crosby, made it 4 years after they finished bottom 5 in 2002, but were out in 5 games. Tampa made it once in 10-11 which was 2 years after Stamkos was drafted, but then missed for another two seasons and wouldn’t make it back until 13-14, five years after Stamkos was drafted.

If Detroit takes a big step back next year, I completely agree that Yzerman should be criticized heavily. But for now…the team missed the playoffs by 0 points on a tiebreaker and has improved every year since he arrived, without a single top 3 pick like the other above teams had. I don’t see how it’s so different from every other rebuild.

I agree its not different from every other rebuild. It's Yzerman showing he's an average GM rather than an elite one he was billed as.

Red Wings fans are all over the boards acting like Holland left Yzerman with the 2023 Sharks rather than a team that had no cap crippling contracts, boat loads of picks, and plenty of useful players that Yzerman was able to turn into even more picks.

In my mind the Red Wings team has also kind of flat lined this last season. Yeah, they got more points, but it was a statistical anomaly due to shooting percentage, and no team's fans will ever admit it when their team is the one benefiting.

 

[TKB]

They only had 6 second round picks in those two draft years. Can't be expected to nail them all.

Okay I'll ask you the same type of question that nobody esle seems to be able to answere when asked?

Were are all these great picks that were available to Detroit in 2nd round or later in 2019 and 2020?

Who could they have drafted that would have had a material impact to date, or potentially make a significant impact in the future?

Perterka? Not sure I take him over Wallinder for the long-term, but honestly don't know much about him.

Asking honestly, is there some late blooming prospect or even established player out there the WIngs could have picked?

Am I missing someone?

 

[Miller Time]

What are you even talking about?

You mean to say that Yzerman should have traded the prospects he inherited? Like most sane GM's, going around trading away their prospect pool mid rebuild.

?

I have no idea what you are even talking about.

I've never said anything close to that.

Perhaps you don't understand what it is a GM does?

Picks, prospects, cap space, roster players... This what a GM is managing.

How effectively they do so is reflected in the on ice results.

After 4 seasons and 5 offseasons, the on ice results remain mediocre.

The prospect pool 5 years ago was top 10, it's arguably better today (5 more years of drafting in the top 10 + selling assets to add additional 1st & 2nd round picks makes that inevitable).

Nothing stated above suggests he should have "traded the prospects he inherited"... That's a silly inference to make.

But if the only evidence of the "success" of his tenure this far is that the Red Wings still have a top ranked prospect pool (as they did in 2018-19), that's a very low bar imo.

I'm not a wings fan, but I am a fan of Yzerman... I just don't think he's done a particularly good job with this rebuild. Which also does not mean that in 3-4 years the Wings won't finally be back in cup contention... 8 years is a long time, especially with the quality rebuild situation he walked into.

Hope that clears up your confusion

 

[Ezekial]

Who the f*** cares if an inherited prospect pool was rated by some shit articles when the top 3 players (two of which being rated as the elite of the elite in one of them) top out as 3rd/4th liners?

Rasmussen, Veleno, and Zadina aren't players that moved the needle, who cares what Corey Pronman thought of them 5 years ago.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I agree its not different from every other rebuild. It's Yzerman showing he's an average GM rather than an elite one he was billed as.

Red Wings fans are all over the boards acting like Holland left Yzerman with the 2023 Sharks rather than a team that had no cap crippling contracts, boat loads of picks, and plenty of useful players that Yzerman was able to turn into even more picks.

In my mind the Red Wings team has also kind of flat lined this last season. Yeah, they got more points, but it was a statistical anomaly due to shooting percentage, and no team's fans will ever admit it when their team is the one benefiting.

I think he’s performed average in Detroit and performed exceptionally in Tampa. The reality is probably somewhere in between.

I understand the point about PDO and shooting percentage, but jsut watching this team, they were far, far better this year. Points wasn’t really it - goal differential was the real improvement.

We’ll see next year.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Okay I'll ask you the same type of question that nobody esle seems to be able to answere when asked?

Were are all these great picks that were available to Detroit in 2nd round or later in 2019 and 2020?

Who could they have drafted that would have had a material impact to date, or potentially make a significant impanct in the future?

Perterka? Not sure I take him over Wallinder for the long-term, but honestly don't know much about him.

Asking honestly, is there some late blooming prospect or even established player out there the WIngs could have picked?

Am I missing someone?

Are you asking a serious question as to whether there were any NHL players drafted in 2019 and 2020 outside the first round?

2019 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

A sortable list of players drafted in the 2019 NHL Entry draft, including their career scoring after being drafted

www.hockeydb.com

2020 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

A sortable list of players drafted in the 2020 NHL Entry draft, including their career scoring after being drafted

www.hockeydb.com

A 2021 late 2nd rounder just scored in the Playoffs as I was replying, lol.

 

[TKB]

Are you asking a serious question as to whether there were any NHL players drafted in 2019 and 2020 outside the first round?

2019 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

A sortable list of players drafted in the 2019 NHL Entry draft, including their career scoring after being drafted

www.hockeydb.com

2020 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

A sortable list of players drafted in the 2020 NHL Entry draft, including their career scoring after being drafted

www.hockeydb.com

Yeah WOT, go through those lists and get back to me. And don't move the goal post. Answer the specific questions asked.

I'll help you since you already seemed to have tried answereing a different question:

Who could they have drafted that would have had a material impact to date, or potentially make a significant impact in the future?

 

[RedHawkDown]

Are you asking a serious question as to whether there were any NHL players drafted in 2019 and 2020 outside the first round?

2019 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

A sortable list of players drafted in the 2019 NHL Entry draft, including their career scoring after being drafted

www.hockeydb.com

2020 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

A sortable list of players drafted in the 2020 NHL Entry draft, including their career scoring after being drafted

www.hockeydb.com

A 2021 late 2nd rounder just scored in the Playoffs as I was replying, lol.

I don’t know that this makes the point you think it does. Out of both these years. The only difference makers are JJP/Faber in 2020 and Maccelli in 2019. No other player makes the wings any better as they’re all bottom pairing dmen ir 3rd/4th liners. If you’re saying Yzerman is a bad GM because he didn’t draft 3 guys over 2 years that 30/31 teams also didn’t…I guess?

 

[WarriorofTime]

Yeah WOT, go through those lists and get back to me. And don't move the goal post. Ask the specific questions answered

You can read, the column under "GP" shows how many NHL games each player has played.

Genuinely, are you being serious? Brock Faber??

 

[ArGarBarGar]

The prospect pool 5 years ago was top 10

Citation, please.

Also if these rankings are made with the idea that Zadina is one of their top prospects then it is flawed at the get-go and questionable as a source. Zadina simply was not as good as his draft position indicated and just because he was considered a good prospect at the time doesn't magically make him one.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I don’t know that this makes the point you think it does. Out of both these years. The only difference makers are JJP/Faber in 2020 and Maccelli in 2019. No other player makes the wings any better as they’re all bottom pairing dmen ir 3rd/4th liners. If you’re saying Yzerman is a bad GM because he didn’t draft 3 guys over 2 years that 30/31 teams also didn’t…I guess?

Lol, so everyone else that makes the NHL is a bust but players that get 16 game callups are "Franchise Gamebreaking talent". This is a comical double standard with how Red Wings prospects versus every other prospect is judged.

 

[Miller Time]

Citation, please.

Scroll up please

Or learn how to use an internet search engine to do your own research

Also if these rankings are made with the idea that Zadina is one of their top prospects then it is flawed at the get-go and questionable as a source. Zadina simply was not as good as his draft position indicated and just because he was considered a good prospect at the time doesn't magically make him one.

Glad to know we have another prospect Nostradamus in the thread.

Now instead of posting here, why not use your predictive powers to lock up a full time NHL gig lol