When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[TKB]

Reasonable.

Some of these takes are just amazing aren't they? At least they provide comedic relief in the mean time.

 

[Miller Time]

Name one first round pick made by Yzerman that is a bust.

Who said any were busts?

 

[TKB]

Who said any were busts?

Okay, I'll make it easy for you.

Give us a 1st round miss by Yzerman. Who should he have drafted instead of any 1st round pick he made?

You are the one that mentioned 7 straight top ten picks in a post critiquing the Yzerman rebuild.

 

[FMichael]

Okay, I'll make it easy for you.

Give us a 1st round miss by Yzerman. Who should he have drafted instead of any 1st round pick he made?

You are the one that mentioned 7 straight top ten picks in a post critiquing the Yzerman rebuild.

I don’t follow the AHL, but my concern is that Kasper will become another Veleno clone.

 

[TKB]

I don’t follow the AHL, but my concern is that Kasper will become another Veleno clone.

Maybe.

But the Wings needed to start taking shots at center, and at this point you can't say any first round center drafted behind Kasper is defintively outperforming him.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Steve Yzerman's Resume of Proven Long-Term Successes 2019-2024 Red Wings Rebuild:
Drafted Moritz Seider 6th overall
Drafted Lucas Raymond 4th overall
?

 

[norrisnick]

In what universe can anything that happened in 2021 or later be proven and/or long-term?

 

[nbwingsfan]

Where did I blame him for that?

Simply pointed out the high volume of high draft picks accumulated over the years. Facts are facts.


Who expects that?

The GM role is asset management and roster assembly. He's been at it for 4 years, the roster at this point is still not playoff worthy. That's not great no matter how you slice it.

I'm a big fan of Yzerman's body of work. Really wish the Habs had given him his first GM job before he went to Tampa.

He laid a great foundation there and built the structure that led to one of the best team runs in decades.

But the RedWings work this far has been underwhelming at best. Is what it is.

I’ve asked this 1000 times without a single answer, let’s see if you’re the 1st to answer;

You’re Yzerman in 2019, what would you have done different to have them in playoffs right now while also aiming for long term playoff success? Everything remains the same with picks and your current empty cupboards. How are you doing it?

 

[nbwingsfan]

Steve Yzerman's Resume of Proven Long-Term Successes 2019-2024 Red Wings Rebuild:
Drafted Moritz Seider 6th overall
Drafted Lucas Raymond 4th overall
?

Your 1st line W, 1st line C and #1D about to be locked up long term.

His 2021-2024 picks still too early to judge how they’re doing long term. Currently have a top 3 prospect pool according to like every scouting service


Missed the playoffs by 0pts despite their young up and coming prospects not on the team yet



zero crippling contacts. Anything “bad” is off the books by the time all the young guys will need contracts

 

[TKB]

Steve Yzerman's Resume of Proven Long-Term Successes 2019-2024 Red Wings Rebuild:
Drafted Moritz Seider 6th overall
Drafted Lucas Raymond 4th overall
?

And while you were specifically asked to do so, you still haven't named a single 1st round pick that Yzerman should drafted differently.

You just claim that all this lack of talent should be playing NHL hockey already.

It gives me great comfort that you think Yzerman is doing a lousy job. I would be worried if you thought he was doing well.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Your 1st line W, 1st line C and #1D about to be locked up long term.

His 2021-2024 picks still too early to judge how they’re doing long term. Currently have a top 3 prospect pool according to like every scouting service


Missed the playoffs by 0pts despite their young up and coming prospects not on the team yet



zero crippling contacts. Anything “bad” is off the books by the time all the young guys will need contracts

Ok

Steve Yzerman's Resume of Proven Long-Term Successes 2019-2024 Red Wings Rebuild:
Drafted Moritz Seider 6th overall
Drafted Lucas Raymond 4th overall
Extended Dylan Larkin for 8 years/$8.7 million AAV for ages 27-34, First 5 years: Full NTC, Final 3: M-NTC: Lists 10 teams willing to trade to
Made A Lot of Draft Selections 2021-2024
Signed Veterans and finished 9th
Has not signed any contracts that have proven to be disasters

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

His nickname for GM should be Stevie "Middle of the Pack Wonder" Yzerman

 

[WarriorofTime]

And while you were specifically asked to do so, you still haven't named a single 1st round pick that Yzerman should drafted differently.

I believe I've criticized that 2019 and 2020 non-1st rounders resulted in 5 Second Round Picks, 3 Third Round Picks 2 Fourth Round Picks 2 Fifth Round Picks, 3 Sixth Round Picks, and 4 Seventh Round Picks, for a total of 19 Non-1st Round Picks that have collectively resulted in 21 NHL games played to date. Were any Homeruns hit? How about Doubles? A few more Singles would be nice...

You just claim that all this lack of talent should be playing NHL hockey already.

I've claimed that based on their age, the aforementioned should likely be pushing for NHL roster spots, yeah. The fact that they aren't even getting callups suggests that either they are no good or they are being intentionally blocked from even getting an opportunity. Not sure which is worse.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Ok

Steve Yzerman's Resume of Proven Long-Term Successes 2019-2024 Red Wings Rebuild:
Drafted Moritz Seider 6th overall
Drafted Lucas Raymond 4th overall
Extended Dylan Larkin for 8 years/$8.7 million AAV for ages 27-34, First 5 years: Full NTC, Final 3: M-NTC: Lists 10 teams willing to trade to
Made A Lot of Draft Selections 2021-2024
Signed Veterans and finished 9th
Has not signed any contracts that have proven to be disasters

Yes since 2019 has:
Collected a top 3 prospect pool
Buikd long term cap flexibility
Has his #1C, #1W and #1D
Traded Bertuzzi (kind of not good) for Debrincat (is good)

What has Chicago done outside of win a lottery and be really really bad?

 

[WarriorofTime]

What has Chicago done outside of win a lottery and be really really bad?

Please stay on topic.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

I've claimed that based on their age, the aforementioned should likely be pushing for NHL roster spots, yeah. The fact that they aren't even getting callups suggests that either they are no good or they are being intentionally blocked from even getting an opportunity. Not sure which is worse.

My suspicion with Yzerman's handling of prospects last season and this season is that he doesn't want them playing in a dumpster fire situation.

Yzerman's signings last summer and his inactivity at the deadline were a pretty clear signal that he did not expect and did not want to make the playoffs this year and would have rather tried to tank into another top ten pick. The team overachieved despite him pretty clearly sabotaging them with two goalies who may well have been out of the NHL without Yzerman and a third who is a career backup.

Now that the Griffins are doing very well at the AHL level and will hopefully continue to do so into the playoffs he is publicly committing to bringing players up. He wants them to play in competitive environments and that isn't where Detroit is at right now.

IMO Chris Ilitch is likely going to give Yzerman 8-10 years to do a full beginning-to-end rebuild so I don't see him being fired unless the Wings aren't penetrating deep into the playoffs by 2027-2029.

I expect to see three more prospects in the NHL full time next season (Danielson, Johansson, Berggren) and likely three more the next season.

 

[Czechboy]

Yes since 2019 has:
Collected a top 3 prospect pool
Buikd long term cap flexibility
Has his #1C, #1W and #1D
Traded Bertuzzi (kind of not good) for Debrincat (is good)

What has Chicago done outside of win a lottery and be really really bad?

In fairness.. I would be in shock if Chicago didn't make the playoffs in the next 4 years.

 

[Miller Time]

Okay, I'll make it easy for you.

Give us a 1st round miss by Yzerman. Who should he have drafted instead of any 1st round pick he made?

You are the one that mentioned 7 straight top ten picks in a post critiquing the Yzerman rebuild.

The critique is yet another early golf season, which I'm sure Yzerman is the most frustrated about. At no point did I suggest or infer that they have drafted poorly.

The job isn't about 1st round hits, the job is about winning a cup, which requires making the playoffs and having a group able to win in the playoffs.... Achieved by managing assets (picks, prospects, roster players, cap space etc.).

You misunderstood my post completely.

I'll make it simple for you:

The Red Wings organization has had 7 top 10 draft picks and 25 picks in the first 2 rounds in the past 7 years. That is a boat load of assets to work with.

The net performance result since Yzerman became GM in April 2019 (5 offseasons & 4 full regular seasons) is 0 playoffs & 1 year above .500.

Yzerman also had 20$ in cap space in year one, so lots of roster flexibility.

Red Wings 2018-19 prospect pool was ranked around 10th as well, so lots of prospects in the cupboard BEFORE adding Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Cossa, Kasper & 9 2rd picks (plus 2x 1st & 3x 2nd in 2023).

So he's had considerable assets and cap space to work with, yet no team results to show for it this far.

That's the critique.

 

[Chainshot]

Maybe.

But the Wings needed to start taking shots at center, and at this point you can't say any first round center drafted behind Kasper is defintively outperforming him.

As big of a fan of Savoie as I am, I would also say that the roles and skill sets are very different. When they graduate, there's a likelihood that Savoie is on the wing at the NHL level while Kasper could be a shutdown or mid-line 2-way center.

 

[izlez]

The critique is yet another early golf season, which I'm sure Yzerman is the most frustrated about. At no point did I suggest or infer that they have drafted poorly.

The job isn't about 1st round hits, the job is about winning a cup, which requires making the playoffs and having a group able to win in the playoffs.... Achieved by managing assets (picks, prospects, roster players, cap space etc.).

You misunderstood my post completely.

I'll make it simple for you:

The Red Wings organization has had 7 top 10 draft picks and 25 picks in the first 2 rounds in the past 7 years. That is a boat load of assets to work with.

The net performance result since Yzerman became GM in April 2019 (5 offseasons & 4 full regular seasons) is 0 playoffs & 1 year above .500.

Yzerman also had 20$ in cap space in year one, so lots of roster flexibility.

Red Wings 2018-19 prospect pool was ranked around 10th as well, so lots of prospects in the cupboard BEFORE adding Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Cossa, Kasper & 9 2rd picks (plus 2x 1st & 3x 2nd in 2023).

So he's had considerable assets and cap space to work with, yet no team results to show for it this far.

That's the critique.

With the benefit of hindsight, who would you have drafted with those picks and signed with that cap space that would have turned the Red Wings into a Stanley Cup team?

Even batting 1.000 in a hypothetical scenario, I doubt you can do it. People's expectations of kids on this board is completely unrealistic

 

[nbwingsfan]

In fairness.. I would be in shock if Chicago didn't make the playoffs in the next 4 years.

I’m fairness, getting a generational talent though a lottery win VASTLY speeds up your process. There were none of those from 2020-2023 when the Wings could have theoretically tanked (that would have required purging the team, including Larkin).

Hell they have probably the 1st or 2nd best players in 2019 & 2020 drafts despite picking them 6th & 4th and they’re still not half the players Bedard will be.

The Hawks haven’t made the post season for like what, 6 years now and it’s not coming anytime soon.

 

[FMichael]

I am still amused at the ignorance of some here in thinking that every top 10 pick will somehow develop into a top 6 forward or top 4 Dman or starting netminder...History has repeatedly shown that drafting 18 yr olds has been a crapshoot and will never be an exact science.

 

[TKB]

The critique is yet another early golf season, which I'm sure Yzerman is the most frustrated about. At no point did I suggest or infer that they have drafted poorly.

The job isn't about 1st round hits, the job is about winning a cup, which requires making the playoffs and having a group able to win in the playoffs.... Achieved by managing assets (picks, prospects, roster players, cap space etc.).

You misunderstood my post completely.

I'll make it simple for you:

The Red Wings organization has had 7 top 10 draft picks and 25 picks in the first 2 rounds in the past 7 years. That is a boat load of assets to work with.

The net performance result since Yzerman became GM in April 2019 (5 offseasons & 4 full regular seasons) is 0 playoffs & 1 year above .500.

Yzerman also had 20$ in cap space in year one, so lots of roster flexibility.

Red Wings 2018-19 prospect pool was ranked around 10th as well, so lots of prospects in the cupboard BEFORE adding Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Cossa, Kasper & 9 2rd picks (plus 2x 1st & 3x 2nd in 2023).

So he's had considerable assets and cap space to work with, yet no team results to show for it this far.

That's the critique.

What team results at this point would you consider to be a success?

 

[jazz7266]

Please stay on topic.

What will define Steve’s tenure as GM is should he have traded Larkin right away? Should he have went complete scorched earth? He basically had a AHL team to start in the NHL. No depth in prospects to speaks (Zadina, Venelo lol). I do think he needs to majorly upgrade the scouting department and I hope he did. I think his first couple drafts he missed the mark after the 1st round. That was going to take time to clean up because Holland left a huge mess. Basically my thought process was it was going to 2-3 years just to clean up Hollands mess.

My two complaints about this season are Holl should not have been signed and Simon should have been playing with the Red Wings since January. Can complain about a few other minor things but to be honest he’s just trying to get NHL talent on the team.

I didn’t think the Red Wings would get close to playoffs till 2025 or 2026. I think we gotta wait and see how Kasper, Cossa, Pelikka and Danielson do in the next couple years to judge Steve’s tenure. Now if Red Wings could have been gifted Connor my expectations would’ve changed.

 

[norrisnick]

I’m fairness, getting a generational talent though a lottery win VASTLY speeds up your process. There were none of those from 2020-2023 when the Wings could have theoretically tanked (that would have required purging the team, including Larkin).

Hell they have probably the 1st or 2nd best players in 2019 & 2020 drafts despite picking them 6th & 4th and they’re still not half the players Bedard will be.

The Hawks haven’t made the post season for like what, 6 years now and it’s not coming anytime soon.

Descending into the Hyper Bowl isn't going to help matters in this discussion.