When Does the USA Surpass Canada as the #1 Hockey Country?

[salty justice]

Thats not fully true. Where I live in the Bay Area, there are several rinks that are with in an hours drive. I've got 3 with in 30 minutes, at most with traffic. Logitech in San Jose is only 45 minutes way in good traffic.

I know there are exceptions. But the town I recently moved to has a population of about 50,000 people, which in Canada would be large enough to have a dozen rinks and a major junior team. But the closest ice rink is 110 miles away so Im reduced to driving 40 miles to get to the nearest roller rink.

Luckily Ill probably be back in LA in a few years where Ill have to pay $300+ to play in a beer league for a couple months

 

[loadie]

The population of the US may be 10 times greater than Canada, but the population of Canadians living in a cold climate compared to Americans in the US is also probably 10-1.
Until the population of the US gets to the point where people need to start living in areas where backyard pond rinks are possible, I dont think the we will come close to producing the type of great hockey players Canada does.

Without that kind of awesome advantage, ice hockey is just too much money for most parents to get their kid started on in the US. It may be cheaper in Canada because there are so many rinks and players, but when theres only 1 ice rink within a 30 mile radius like in California or other areas of large populations the price of 1 season is usually 5 to 6 times the cost of a season of baseball, football, basketball, or soccer.

Sorry but I think Canada's supremacy is safe for atleast the next generation or two. A lot about the perception of the sport in the US needs to change before we ever come close.

I agree with most of your post regarding arenas, Canada does a quite a few, in communities that wouldn't make up a full street in some US towns, there's an arena. But your 10 - 1 estimate about the cold climates may be off a little. Just 4 Northern states, NY, Mass, Mich and Minn have a total of over 40 million people living in them, more than all of Canada. I would imagine its cold enough to make an outdoor rink there.
I feel Canada will always be at or near the top when it comes to hockey, because it is what we are. We live it and we will always live it, even though the countries' demographics are slowly changing to other sports. It doesn't mean however that countries like the US won't have awesome players and awesome teams. They just don't live it the way we do.

 

[salty justice]

I agree with most of your post regarding arenas, Canada does a quite a few, in communities that wouldn't make up a full street in some US towns, there's an arena. But your 10 - 1 estimate about the cold climates may be off a little. Just 4 Northern states, NY, Mass, Mich and Minn have a total of over 40 million people living in them, more than all of Canada. I would imagine its cold enough to make an outdoor rink there.
I feel Canada will always be at or near the top when it comes to hockey, because it is what we are. We live it and we will always live it, even though the countries' demographics are slowly changing to other sports. It doesn't mean however that countries like the US won't have awesome players and awesome teams. They just don't live it the way we do.

You are completely correct, I was more or less poking fun at Canada's climate but forgot to post the punchline

I do however think there is a correlation for obvious reasons between cold climate and ice hockey development. Compare the number of hockey players in colder parts of Europe (Scandinavia and most of the former Soviet Union) to mediterranean parts of Europe like Spain and Italy. Populations and locations arent too different, but the hockey communities are ages apart.

 

[espo*]

you could make the same arguement about Team Canada at the SLC Olympics in 02. Canada didn't even belong in the gold medal game.

How the hell did they get there then? by losing to finland and belarus? Boy,they must love us in these things.

Don't mention Sweden,if they can't beat belarus in a must win game,they were'nt going to beat us.We were a far diferent team then the unorganized mess they saw in the last game they played us.Cmon man!!

 

[Attica]

Gonna have to go out on a limb here and say NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS.

We have ice.


They don't have as much ice.


They don't care about hockey.


We do.


After all, it's a lot easier to teach your kids to drive really really fast and take 2000 left turns than it is the play hockey. Kind of a dumb thread.

 

[sabrefan27]

While I don't think the USA will ever pass Canada, they will surely close the gap, and probably end up pretty even. But if it helps some of the people in this thread sleep better at night by denying that the US continues to close the gap, then more power to them. They'll be in for a rude awakening one day.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Hockey is becoming much more popular for kids in the US - there are a lot more local rinks but it remains a very expensive sport especially if your kid isn't very good at it

You said it right there Mountaineer. It's a very expensive sport and until hockey programs look after equipment for kids in inner city areas and areas where there isn't a lot of money, it will never change. You don't need expensive equipment to play football,baseball or basketball though and that's why there will always be more football, baseball and basketball players.

The other reason why the U.S. will never catch up to Canada in terms of hockey development is simply the leagues in Canada. While I love NCAA hockey, the U.S. developmental program in place really is nothing more than U.S. high school hockey and the National Development Program that is in place. There isn't a junior hockey league like there is in Canada. There isn't that emphasis on minor hockey in the U.S. like there is in Canada. If U.S. hockey ever decided to get onboard and start their own Major Junior hockey program like we have here in Canada, then it could make things interesting. Until then, Canada will always be heralded because our development programs are far superior to what is being offered in the U.S. It's not a knock on U.S. hockey, it's the truth unfortunately.

 

[loadie]

You are completely correct, I was more or less poking fun at Canada's climate but forgot to post the punchline

I do however think there is a correlation for obvious reasons between cold climate and ice hockey development. Compare the number of hockey players in colder parts of Europe (Scandinavia and most of the former Soviet Union) to mediterranean parts of Europe like Spain and Italy. Populations and locations arent too different, but the hockey communities are ages apart.

Right you are. I couldn't imagine dreaming about becoming a Hockey player if I'm living in Southern California. The again, I don't fancy myself being a Professional at anything.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

You said it right there Mountaineer. It's a very expensive sport and until hockey programs look after equipment for kids in inner city areas and areas where there isn't a lot of money, it will never change. You don't need expensive equipment to play football,baseball or basketball though and that's why there will always be more football, baseball and basketball players.

The other reason why the U.S. will never catch up to Canada in terms of hockey development is simply the leagues in Canada. While I love NCAA hockey, the U.S. developmental program in place really is nothing more than U.S. high school hockey and the National Development Program that is in place. There isn't a junior hockey league like there is in Canada. There isn't that emphasis on minor hockey in the U.S. like there is in Canada. If U.S. hockey ever decided to get onboard and start their own Major Junior hockey program like we have here in Canada, then it could make things interesting. Until then, Canada will always be heralded because our development programs are far superior to what is being offered in the U.S. It's not a knock on U.S. hockey, it's the truth unfortunately.

I guess you haven't heard of the USHL, which is considered Tier 1. As for the USNTDP, you realize their schedule consists of college teams, many of which are quality division I programs? They also represent the U.S. in the U18's, which they won last year. Do some research.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Gonna have to go out on a limb here and say NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS.

We have ice.


They don't have as much ice.


They don't care about hockey.


We do.


After all, it's a lot easier to teach your kids to drive really really fast and take 2000 left turns than it is the play hockey. Kind of a dumb thread.

Guess what genius, the U.S. has just as many rinks and registered players as Canada does!

 

[Claypool_*]

How the hell did they get there then?

are you denying Canada had a cakewalk to the gold medal game?

 

[hiredgunn]

The truth is that the U.S have in fact been catching up.

That said I don't think that people realize the scope of hockey in Canada. It's a social religion. Look at Rocket Richard's *State* funeral.

Ottawa where I live has just under a million people now that they have amalgamated. For that population it has:

34 arenas
225 (Public use, city funded) outdoor rinks

 

[willie]

are you denying Canada had a cakewalk to the gold medal game?

The gold medal game itself was no less a cakewalk than any other game.

 

[Alpine]

I know there are exceptions. But the town I recently moved to has a population of about 50,000 people, which in Canada would be large enough to have a dozen rinks and a major junior team. But the closest ice rink is 110 miles away so Im reduced to driving 40 miles to get to the nearest roller rink.

Luckily Ill probably be back in LA in a few years where Ill have to pay $300+ to play in a beer league for a couple months

Yes, the Americans are making great strides in the hockey world. But the percentage of the population playing can't compare.
I'm surprised to see the number of rinks listed by some posters. In the area I live in with a population of 120,000, we have a CHL team which only started after 15 years of AHL, a Jr A team, and a CIS team. There's 12 rinks and if you want to drive up to an hour, as some have mentioned, you could maybe add another 8-9. Outdoor rinks, pick a number. I don't think this would be much different accross Canada.
Hockey in the States seems to me be at similar level to basketball in Canada. Sure we have players in the pros. But basketball just ain't our main game.

 

[Leb_Hitch*]

Interestingly Lebron James use to be a Football player and many said he had a future with it, but I guess basketball outweighed in the end.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

Guess what genius, the U.S. has just as many rinks and registered players as Canada does!

With only 10 times the population.

 

[espo*]

are you denying Canada had a cakewalk to the gold medal game?

So what,does any team have a cakewalk to the Gold medal game? what point are you trying to make there? The fact is they WERE in the Gold medal game and.....................they won it!! You're missing something are'nt you?

you were'nt in a coma in 2002 were you? If not,you know Canada won the Gold medal.Do i need to say anything else here? I should'nt have to.Results tend to speak for themselves.

 

[steafo]

While I doubt we will ever actually pass Canada (at least in my lifetime) I don't see any reason why we wouldn't be able to compete with you guys in future tournaments. I've seen a huge increase in popularity towards hockey in the last 10 years just because of the popularity of roller hockey. With expansion, as crappy as it sounds you may get poor attendance and I will not argue that florida doesn't need 2 teams, atlanta doesnt need 1 and california sure as hell doesn't need 3, but with hockey being in those parts there will be die -hard fans and people that will be so drawn to the sport they will start playing it.

As a kid I was pushed into Baseball, because thats what my father knew. I liked it but I was drawn to hockey because it is non-stop action and I was a hyper kid so I got into hockey. I dont really know if any of this made any sense at this point, but im going to post it anyways...flame away.

 

[steafo]

While I doubt we will ever actually pass Canada (at least in my lifetime) I don't see any reason why we wouldn't be able to compete with you guys in future tournaments. I've seen a huge increase in popularity towards hockey in the last 10 years just because of the popularity of roller hockey. With expansion, as crappy as it sounds you may get poor attendance and I will not argue that florida doesn't need 2 teams, atlanta doesnt need 1 and california sure as hell doesn't need 3, but with hockey being in those parts there will be die -hard fans and people that will be so drawn to the sport they will start playing it.

As a kid I was pushed into Baseball, because thats what my father knew. I liked it but I was drawn to hockey because it is non-stop action and I was a hyper kid so I got into hockey. I dont really know if any of this made any sense at this point, but im going to post it anyways...flame away.

Ok after reading my own post i realized i didnt really say anything what an idiot ...but seriously I have a good opinion in my head!

 

[Adam West]

GDP per capita might not be a perfect indicator for measuring the standard of living, but it's one of the best one's out there. I also found a couple of other lists on the net, and they were more or less the same. Although I am Finnish, I have also lived in the States for five years and traveled there extensively. I agree with you that the the U.S has an much more polar structure in the standard of living. But I wanted to validate my point (that the Nordic countries and Canada have a quite similair standard of living) and this indicator was the best one I could think of.

For what its worth the UN's HDI (Human Development Index) report is most commonly used to measure a countries standard of living (I'm not trying to argue your point just providing some more information). These are the top ten countries according to the HDI:
1) Norway
2) Iceland
3) Australia
4) Luxembourg
5) Canada
6) Sweden
7) Switzerland
8) Republic of Ireland
9) Belgium
10) United States
...Hockey standings were not used in the ranking of these countries.

On another note I think Canada should be considered the best hockey nation not because of the best team they can put forward, but because they could probably ice the greatest number of internationally competitive teams (this is just my opinion and I have been known to be wrong before).

 

[futurcorerock]

USA as the #1 hockey country starts with winning an Olympic Gold Medal with a roster of NHLers -- something the USA has nothing on vs. Canada and the Czech Republic

 

[LaLaLaprise]

Hockey is gettng stronger in the States though. There are the traditional Hockey States like Michigan, Minnesota and the North East but there is a big time boom down in places like California and Texas.

More and more American kids are being picked early in the NHL draft and hockey is really picking up. That being said Canada is also producing more and more top end players. Guys like Esposito and Tavares for example. Canada will always have these types of kids each year no matter how good the kids in the States will get.

 

[Transported Upstater]

You're not from the US so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but do you seriously think one dollar measurement, on the CIA website no less, means much about standard of living? Too many factors are missing from a simple dollar figure.

The US is much more of a haves & have-nots country than Canada & Europe and you'd know that if you had more of a chance to visit.

Canada's distribution of wealth is indeed less skewed than the United States's.

As for the hockey, the quality of American players is improving, and that is a direct correlation to the drastically improving quality of American junior hockey. The percentage of American hockey players that play in the CHL is miniscule compared to the number of college players. Since all American junior leagues retain NCAA eligibility, this contributes to better NCAA squads and a overall higher level of play than years past.

You always build at the youth level. None of America's junior leagues will ever come close to rivaling the CHL, but that isn't their goal; American junior leagues are meant to prepare players for NCAA hockey. College hockey is where the best amateur play is in the USA, whereas Canada's best amateur hockey players far exceed the level of play in the ever-improving CIS.

I love USA/Canada matchups, because the games often are far closer than they should be on paper. Often, you can throw out the matchups. Is there any North American on this board who didn't get excited at the gold medal game in 2002? If so, you have no pulse.

I don't think the United States will surpass Canada for a long time though. We are counting on Canadian talent to improve at a slower rate than ours, which is an "iffy" assumption, to say the least.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I guess you haven't heard of the USHL, which is considered Tier 1. As for the USNTDP, you realize their schedule consists of college teams, many of which are quality division I programs? They also represent the U.S. in the U18's, which they won last year. Do some research.

If you're comparing the USHL to either the WHL, OHL, or QMJHL, you're going to get laughed off this board. No way does the USHL even come close to the level of play and talent that is in the WHL, OHL or QMJHL. As a matter of fact, I'll go on record and say that the worst team in the CHL would blow the best team from the USHL right off the face of the earth. The USHL is no competition when compared to Major Junior hockey in Canada. That my friend is not a statement being blown out my a$$, that's a fact.

As for the USNTDP, I'm going to give it it's due. It has produced some great players. But those players pale in comparison to what Major Junior hockey in Canada has produced. Once again, that is a fact.

It's also quite funny that most of these kids who play in U.S. will usually opt for the chance to play in Canada. There's a reason for that and it's this. The programs here are much better in terms of development. Hockey Canada quite simply has THE best hockey program in place. If the U.S. are to catch and surpass Canada, then the organzied aspect of junior hockey in the U.S. really needs to emulate what Canada is doing. However, as long as the majority of talented U.S. players are willing to cross our borders and play hockey here, the U.S. national programs will always pale in comparison to the Canadian programs. You can take that to bank.

 

[psycho_dad*]

My question is, when do you guys think the USA will surpass Canada as the premier hockey country in the world? In both quality and quantity.

Russia is WAY more likely to surpass Canada than the U.S. Hell, I'd even say Finland has more chances, at least the sport is #1 in here. And yeah, the quality of life here is quite similar to Canada. I have lived in both countries (and the U.S) and I'd say Finland is Canada without mountains. And that I prefer them both over U.S.

Russia has the quantity to go past Canada. Finland would, if we had more than 5-6 million people here. Russia in a long run, USA not in a very very long time. At least hockey is somewhat of a big deal in russia.