When Cam Ward isn't 'on', he's a terrible goaltender

[Finlandia WOAT]

Year after year some still try to argue that he is "elite". Elite in my opinion is the top 3 or top 10% of the starters, maybe you can stretch it to top 5. While Ward at his best may have top 5 talent, he has never shown it with enough consistency to be considered there.

This is why, on HFBoards polls of top 30 goalies, Ward is consistently 7-12.

Goalies who have been consistently better for a least a couple of years that I would rather have on a nightly basis include: Lundqvist, Rinne, Fleury, Rask, Brodeur, Anderson, Backstrom, Price, Hiller, Luongo, Niemi, Crawford, Quick.

You do realize that Fluery, Brodeur, Backstrom, Hiller, Niemi and Crawford were all horrible last year, right?

And Quick is horrible this year.

Throw in guys like - Nabokov, Miller, Fasth, Vokoun, Schneider, Smith - into the mix, is it really nonsense or unrealistic to consider that Ward may be in the bottom half of starting goalies in the league.

Are you serious?

You're complaint is about the consistency of Cam Ward. None of the guys on the second list have ever been consistent. They are either old, inconsistent, or they've played all of 9 games in the NHL.

We complain about Ward being inconsistent, and yet, you're list proves just how rare it is for a goalie to be in top form, night in, night out. Only Lunqvist, Rinne and to a lesser extent Price can make that claim over the past 3 years.

 

[Zombie Mike Murphy]

Food for thought....among goalies with 3 or more starts - Cam Ward is 45th in SV%. Dan Ellis is 2nd (Admittedly - small sample size, etc)

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Cam Ward's save percentage vs. the league average.

05-06 - Cam Ward: .882. League average: .901
06-07 - Cam Ward: .897. League average: .905
07-08 - Cam Ward: .904. League average: .909
08-09 - Cam Ward: .916. League average: .908
09-10 - Cam Ward: .916. League average: .911
10-11 - Cam Ward: .923. League average: .913
11-12 - Cam Ward: .915. League average: .914
12-13 - Cam Ward: .896. League average: .910

So you're saying that despite ALL the claims otherwise, Ward has been an above average goaltender the past 4 years? And considering the defense we've iced in that same time span...

My god, it's almost like he's *gasp* a good goaltender.

I love the overreaction this board has sometimes. Ward has one game where he can be blamed solely for the loss (a very short list that is DWARFED by the amount of games he's solely responsible for the win), and suddenly Ward's a bottom-feeder?

He's had a rough year. There's no denying that. But a rough year doesn't suddenly negate the enormous amount of good he's done for this team in recent years.

 

[rocky7]

Agree for the most part about Ward, but a good goalie is often really left out in the cold by terrible defense and defensive positioning. I have often wondered how much communication there is on the ice when playing, such as yelling out; "hey watch this guy" or "there's a guy behind you" ,etc..

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I still think the GWG against Winnipeg was just Ward in shock over how poorly Corvo played a simple dump out of the zone.

Yes, let's attempt to catch a pop fly, rather than...play defense.

 

[normalpsychology]

I still think the GWG against Winnipeg was just Ward in shock over how poorly Corvo played a simple dump out of the zone.

Yes, let's attempt to catch a pop fly, rather than...play defense.

a goaltender needs to be able to maintain composure in situations like that, especially when it's a tied game. *what is his salary again?* sorry but situations like that are what your goaltender is in the net for. he's not doing his job. simple as that.

 

[NorthStar4Canes]

I think instead of Cam making in the neighbourhood of $100,000 per game win or lose, his pay structure should be $3000 per save minus $10,000 per GA. that might help him see the puck more clearly.

 

[Lazyking]

Did someone actually say they'd rather have freaking Niemi over Ward? I watch every shark game and Niemi is just not a good goalie. Sure, he'll put up better numbers with a better defense mind you but he lets in soft goals even more often then Ward (see last night's game) has horrible rebound control and one of the worst glove in the league.

When Ward is on, he makes Niemi his ***** lol.

 

[Sasha Cares]

I swear some are spoiled. Have they not noticed how bad of years elite goalies have? I mean Cam has never had an elite year, but he's also never had one of those Crawford/MAF years either.

I still say you give Ellis the back to back.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Goalies who have been consistently better for a least a couple of years that I would rather have on a nightly basis include: Lundqvist, Rinne, Fleury, Rask, Brodeur, Anderson, Backstrom, Price, Hiller, Luongo, Niemi, Crawford, Quick.

That post was a credibility killer.

Goalie|2010-11|2011-12
Ward|74/.923|68/.915
Anderson|51/.913|63/.914
Backstrom|51/.916|46/.919
Brodeur|56/.903|59/.908
Crawford|57/.917|57/.903
Fleury|65/.918|67/.913
Hiller|49/.924|73/.910
Niemi|60/.920|68/.915
Price|72/.923|65/.916
Rask|29/.918|23/.929

Out of 13 goalies you listed, only 4 (Lundqvist, Rinne, Luongo and Quick) have actually played a comparable number of games with better results. Price is pretty much dead even, and Rask was a strong backup.

The rest... not even close. The fact that you think guys like Brodeur and Hiller have been consistently better over the past 2 years makes me wonder whether you're really paying attention to the rest of the league or just nitpicking the Hurricanes.

Throw in guys like - Nabokov, Miller, Fasth, Vokoun, Schneider, Smith - into the mix, is it really nonsense or unrealistic to consider that Ward may be in the bottom half of starting goalies in the league.

Fasth!? The guy with 9 career GP? Are you for real?

 

[Clark Gillies]

This is why, on HFBoards polls of top 30 goalies, Ward is consistently 7-12.

Like I said - Elite is top 3 maybe 5. So even a bunch of people on a message board agree he is not "Elite" - the definition of Elite is the best of the class
Ward by your own argument is not.

 

[Clark Gillies]

You do realize that Fluery, Brodeur, Backstrom, Hiller, Niemi and Crawford were all horrible last year, right?

And Quick is horrible this year.

And Ward was horrible this year and last year.
I am not basing it off of one year. I am naming goalies who can arguably be considered at the same level as Ward or better. Ward is by no means clearly better than any on that list.

 

[DaveG]

I'd say elite right now (with how Quick's playing) is a 2 man race: Lundqvist and Rinne.

And Ward was hardly horrible last year. A step down from 2010-11 yes but basically so was everyone on the team at the start of the 2011-12 season. He finished the year with stats on par with his 08-09 and 09-10 seasons, both respectable seasons by any measure.

 

[Clark Gillies]

Are you serious?

You're complaint is about the consistency of Cam Ward. None of the guys on the second list have ever been consistent. They are either old, inconsistent, or they've played all of 9 games in the NHL.

We complain about Ward being inconsistent, and yet, you're list proves just how rare it is for a goalie to be in top form, night in, night out. Only Lunqvist, Rinne and to a lesser extent Price can make that claim over the past 3 years.

Fasth is on the second list because he is an unknown as far as the NHL - I stated throw them in the mix now to consider that Ward may possibly be lower than 15, instead of blind homerism - there is no doubt he is playing better right now.

Age is irrelevant in this argument - we are not discussing who you would rather have to build a franchise long term, simply is Cam in the conversation of an upper echelon goalie in the league RIGHT NOW - and he is not.

Yes the are inconsistent - so is Cam. So Cam's inconsistency doesn't matter but it does for them?

 

[Clark Gillies]

That post was a credibility killer.

Goalie|2010-11|2011-12
Ward|74/.923|68/.915
Anderson|51/.913|63/.914
Backstrom|51/.916|46/.919
Brodeur|56/.903|59/.908
Crawford|57/.917|57/.903
Fleury|65/.918|67/.913
Hiller|49/.924|73/.910
Niemi|60/.920|68/.915
Price|72/.923|65/.916
Rask|29/.918|23/.929

Out of 13 goalies you listed, only 4 (Lundqvist, Rinne, Luongo and Quick) have actually played a comparable number of games with better results. Price is pretty much dead even, and Rask was a strong backup.

The rest... not even close. The fact that you think guys like Brodeur and Hiller have been consistently better over the past 2 years makes me wonder whether you're really paying attention to the rest of the league or just nitpicking the Hurricanes.

I never said better that last couple of years meaning exactly the last 2., I said better for at least a couple of years - meaning higher quality stretches of consistency. To mention Ward in the same breath as you knock Brodeur is ridiculous.


And even though you cannot simply go by Save % or GAA, as not all shots are created. Your table proves that everyone one of those goalies belongs in the conversation with Ward (except Brodeur). I would take all of them over Ward including Hiller

Ward playing a heavier workload is a result of the Canes not having a reliable back up and a staff that overworked him. I have never been in favor of having a #1 having more than about 60% of the starts and I never will.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Since we're using steel-trap logic to include "unknowns" on the list, don't forget Jakob Markstrom, Petr Mrazek, Darcy Kuemper, Chad Johnson and Ben Scrivens among the superstars who have emerged to surpass Ward RIGHT NOW.

Maybe we should be asking ourselves: is Cam even a top-30 goalie at this point? Should we trade him to Toronto and roll a sick Reimer/Ellis combo?

 

[tarheelhockey]

I never said better that last couple of years meaning exactly the last 2., I said better for at least a couple of years - meaning higher quality stretches of consistency.

Ok, explain exactly how Antii Niemi and Corey Crawford have had a higher quality stretch of consistency than Cam Ward.

To mention Ward in the same breath as you knock Brodeur is ridiculous.... I would take all of them over Ward including Hiller

So, this pretty much confirms that you haven't been watching a whole lot of these guys the past few years.

 

[Clark Gillies]

Ok, explain exactly how Antii Niemi and Corey Crawford have had a higher quality stretch of consistency than Cam Ward.



So, this pretty much confirms that you haven't been watching a whole lot of these guys the past few years.

First off - lay off the personal attacks - I watch Hockey every night and have been a season ticket holder for over 30 years.
And probably went to 30 games a year when I was a kid.

Niemi has been the better goalie since he has been in the league - Don't watch SJ much, I guess. (past your bedtime?)

Let me clarify - I never said Ward was terrible, nor did I say he was below average.
My point being there are a lot of goalies that are pretty comparable and interchangeable that are a step below the "elite" goalies - and Ward fits in that category a lot more than he does the upper one. I didn't even mention Bryzgalov or Vokoun and a few other that could also be thrown into the mix.
Personally - I would put Cam somewhere in the 12-15 range, but I would have no quarrels with someone who puts him at 20 because he is in the mix with a lot of goalies.

 

[Clark Gillies]

Since we're using steel-trap logic to include "unknowns" on the list, don't forget Jakob Markstrom, Petr Mrazek, Darcy Kuemper, Chad Johnson and Ben Scrivens among the superstars who have emerged to surpass Ward RIGHT NOW.

Maybe we should be asking ourselves: is Cam even a top-30 goalie at this point? Should we trade him to Toronto and roll a sick Reimer/Ellis combo?

This just goes to show how ignorant and ridiculous you are being.

 

[TheBigKahuna]

Anyone wanna do a spreadsheet of shootout stats?

Ward is AMAZING in those stats!

 

[tarheelhockey]

First off - lay off the personal attacks

It's not a personal attack to say that Brodeur has been one of the most inconsistent goalies in the league in recent years, and anyone who follows the league ought to be aware of that. Same with Hiller, though his case involves some weird circumstances.

While we're on the subject, phrases like "you Cam apologists who will continue to defend him to no end" is a lot closer to an ad hom attack.

Niemi has been the better goalie since he has been in the league - Don't watch SJ much, I guess. (past your bedtime?)

You don't even need to take my word for it... talk to Lazyking. He just said he watches every Shark game.

This just goes to show how ignorant and ridiculous you are being.

Stop with the personal attacks...

Fasth has a .933 after 9 games. Scrivens has a .931 after 10 games. One counts and the other doesn't?

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

This just goes to show how ignorant and ridiculous you are being.

You're trying to argue that Cam Ward is a worse goaltender than a guy who has started 9 NHL games, a career backup and players who have not been elite in years (Brodeur, Vokoun, Nabakov).

 

[tarheelhockey]

What's funny here is that it appears to be unanimous that Cam needs a game or two off to get his head straight. The fact that we have to go beyond that and argue over whether he's better than the likes of Corey Crawford...

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

And Ward was horrible this year and last year.
I am not basing it off of one year. I am naming goalies who can arguably be considered at the same level as Ward or better. Ward is by no means clearly better than any on that list.

Niemi is horrible. He couldn't outplay Micheal ****ing Leighton in a playoff series.

Vokoun, Brodeur and Nabakov are all old and broken down. Read: inconsistent.

Corey Crawford lost his starting job twice to Ray Emery.

Fasth has 9 NHL games.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

You guys should be excited for Dan Altshuller. Kids a workhorse, one and off the ice, good kid and tons of talent. He's gonna be a player, that's for sure.