When Cam Ward isn't 'on', he's a terrible goaltender

normalpsychology

Registered User
Oct 27, 2011
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yes. the overpaying JR seems to consistently do is really starting to hurt us. especially if we aren't able to resign semin. you can add larose to that list. even staal who is making as much as sidney crosby
 

tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
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Cam has become/is becoming the most divisive player on this team with the fan base. You will have you Cam apologists who will continue to defend him to no end and those who see he is an average goalie who has had flashes of brilliance at times but whose consistency problems and tendency to let in soft goals may actually put him below average.

What, no mention of those who had nothing to say about his performance over the past 3 weeks but came out of the woodwork again when he struggled over the past 4 periods? That seems like an influential group as well.

The idea that Ward is below average because his game is up-and-down is just nonsense. Who would you consider to be a league-average goalie? Howard, Varlamov, Pavelec, guys like that? You're saying Ward is worse than that crowd because he's inconsistent and they aren't? Heck, look at the next bracket up from that group. Bryzgalov is inconsistent. Brodeur lets in softies all the time. Luongo is prone to meltdowns. Quick and Halak have been brutal this year. Fleury is consistently mediocre. Who exactly is in this huge group of above-average goalies who are consistently excellent?
 

Beardy*

Guest
What, no mention of those who had nothing to say about his performance over the past 3 weeks but came out of the woodwork again when he struggled over the past 4 periods? That seems like an influential group as well.

The idea that Ward is below average because his game is up-and-down is just nonsense. Who would you consider to be a league-average goalie? Howard, Varlamov, Pavelec, guys like that? You're saying Ward is worse than that crowd because he's inconsistent and they aren't? Heck, look at the next bracket up from that group. Bryzgalov is inconsistent. Brodeur lets in softies all the time. Luongo is prone to meltdowns. Quick and Halak have been brutal this year. Fleury is consistently mediocre. Who exactly is in this huge group of above-average goalies who are consistently excellent?

The problem isn't that Cam lets in soft goals. Yes, every goalie does it... His problem is that when he does, it snowballs into a horrid game, and then a stretch of a few games where he really does play like one of the worst goalies to ever play the game before getting his head back on straight.

Unfortunately, in this league, you just can't afford stretches like the last 2 games where a goalie just absolutely falls apart and can't stop even the most basic of shots, which practically gives the team little to no shot of winning. I'd rather have a goalie who is consistently good, positionally and fundamentally sound, but not quite as athletically talented as Ward, who can make the routine saves consistently, and struggles with the massive scrums in the crease than someone like Ward, who can excel in those scrums, but is massively susceptible to the routine shot going in.
 

tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
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The problem isn't that Cam lets in soft goals. Yes, every goalie does it... His problem is that when he does, it snowballs into a horrid game, and then a stretch of a few games where he really does play like one of the worst goalies to ever play the game before getting his head back on straight.

And again, nearly every single goalie in the league does this. Ward might have slightly more of a problem with it than other stars, but he is also slightly better than most of them when he is on his game. It is what it is. We are not going to find a more consistently strong goalie on the market, including Luongo who is older and on an even worse contract and would require serious assets to acquire, in addition to having to buy Ward out which would end up costing even more money than we're already spending.

Give Ellis a start or two, wait for the wave of injuries to subside, and let Ward work his way back into a hot streak. It's really simple and doesn't require any torches or pitchforks.
 

Roboturner913

Registered User
Jul 3, 2012
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I'd rather have a goalie who is consistently good, positionally and fundamentally sound, but not quite as athletically talented as Ward, who can make the routine saves consistently, and struggles with the massive scrums in the crease than someone like Ward, who can excel in those scrums, but is massively susceptible to the routine shot going in.

OK, that's fine, but who is the goalie who fits all these parameters? And in the off-chance you can name him, what is the likelihood he can be acquired?

I like Ward, and I'll be the first to admit I cut him more slack than many. I can also see he's inconsistent and streaky. But simply replacing him with someone else is no guarantee that you will be any better off.
 

Sasha Cares

28 mph!!!!!!!
Sep 25, 2006
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He's overpaid by what $500k? No biggie. Btw he is right at about #10. He always will be in the 7-10 range. He looks bad this year. He never looks great when he doesn't play absurd amounts of games. He was the player I was most worried about being effected by the lockout.

I think Ellis should get the next two starts and decide where to go from there.
 

Chrispy

Salakuljettaja's Blues
Feb 25, 2009
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He's overpaid by what $500k? No biggie. Btw he is right at about #10. He always will be in the 7-10 range. He looks bad this year. He never looks great when he doesn't play absurd amounts of games. He was the player I was most worried about being effected by the lockout.

I think Ellis should get the next two starts and decide where to go from there.

I agree with the opening paragraph about where Ward is in the league. I also wonder if he's grown accustomed to not only playing a ton of games, but seeing a lot of shots within a game.

As for the bolded sentence, I don't think this is a good idea. Ellis has shown repeatedly in his career he's not the goaltender to carry a full load. With Satuday & Sunday games this weekend, I can see the argument for either Ellis/Ward or Ward/Ellis, but starting Ellis 2 straight days makes little sense to me.

Right now, I'd say start Ellis vs TB, bring Ward back on Long Island, and then go from there.
 
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Mr Whipple

Charmin Soft
Nov 9, 2008
517
4
Greenville, NC
I mentioned after the Montreal game with those soft goals that I was worried they'd go to Ward's head and he wouldn't be able to shake it off. Unfortunately it seems like that's what happened.

I don't think Ward needs to be written off. Way too early for that. But he does need to get his confidence back. That said, we're in a bind with the short season. We can't throw away games while we wait for that to happen. So I'd go with Ellis against Tampa Sat. If Ellis plays lights out and earns it, then play him again. If not, go with Ward. You've got to go with the hot glove.

What I really wish we had is Barrasso still as goalie coach. He seemed to do wonders when he was here with Ward's mental game. The problems Ward had when he was coach tended to be injuries.
 

Lazyking

Never Forget
Oct 15, 2011
3,730
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I mentioned after the Montreal game with those soft goals that I was worried they'd go to Ward's head and he wouldn't be able to shake it off. Unfortunately it seems like that's what happened.

I don't think Ward needs to be written off. Way too early for that. But he does need to get his confidence back. That said, we're in a bind with the short season. We can't throw away games while we wait for that to happen. So I'd go with Ellis against Tampa Sat. If Ellis plays lights out and earns it, then play him again. If not, go with Ward. You've got to go with the hot glove.

What I really wish we had is Barrasso still as goalie coach. He seemed to do wonders when he was here with Ward's mental game. The problems Ward had when he was coach tended to be injuries.

Best post in thread.. I agree with all of it. playing goalie is mental and while Cam was playing well, couple softies have taken his confidence way down. He needs a day off and if Ellis plays well, he should start.

We don't have alot of days off and we're in the playoffs but we won't be with goaltending play like last night.
 

TheBigKahuna

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Dec 6, 2010
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I think Ward has some MAJOR issues going on in his head. He needs to sit and stew for a few games, or more.

He's being paid like an elite goaltender, and he simply isn't one in the NHL. His glove hand is super weak, one of the worst I've ever seen. He got bitten at least 3 times last night, glove side high! Happens all the time.

I think he's overpaid by about $2m per. I'd be a horrible head coach, because I'd destroy his confidence. I'd tell him in front of the entire locker room that Ellis was starting until Ellis **** the bed! When he gets his head screwed back on straight, come talk to me! Until then, you're on bench door duty!


Yet another ****** contract by JR, paying a guy well more than he's worth, AND giving him a NTC! We're about to see exactly why JR needs to retire, over the course of the next 2 seasons. Those contracts are going to rear their ugly heads!
 

Mr Whipple

Charmin Soft
Nov 9, 2008
517
4
Greenville, NC
I'd be a horrible head coach, because I'd destroy his confidence. I'd tell him in front of the entire locker room that Ellis was starting until Ellis **** the bed! When he gets his head screwed back on straight, come talk to me! Until then, you're on bench door duty!

Not necessarily. Every player is different, and for some that is exactly what they need done to get them fired up and their top game going.

Not saying that's what would work best for Ward, but it could possibly be what is needed.
 

Veritas0Aequitas

Registered User
Feb 5, 2013
517
190
Colorado
I'm not saying he's elite but the guy has no defensive help.... Most of the time he's trying to do it all himself back there and yeah, that can make you prone to mistakes.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
48,174
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My concern with Ward is that he just doesn't seem to be playing very good fundamental hockey for a number of games this season. When he's at his best, he is moving well and putting himself in the right position to make hard saves look easy. Right now, he seems to be moving slow and often in a poor position to make a save. Then he has to rely on his glove or blocker and any little thing (bad bounce, deflection etc..) ends up turning into a goal.

I thought he had regained his form after a couple of strong showings but the last two along with a couple of stinkers early in the season has me worried. I'm guessing it's mainly mental but the Canes can't afford too many more games like this in a shortened season.
 

garnetpalmetto

Jerkministrator
Jul 12, 2004
12,476
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Durham, NC
The saviour cometh! Rick "JC" DiPietro is going to hit waivers today. He's only earning $4.5M - clearly the thing to do is pick him up - I hear he's got a pretty reasonable contract overall and JR loves his reclamation projects. And that hair, those long flowing locks - we've haven't had a goalie with such follicular intangibles since Trevor Kidd. Not a bad smile either on him! :sarcasm:

159550428-Rick-DiPietro-590x884.jpg
 

Clark Gillies

Registered User
Oct 3, 2006
1,088
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Carolina
The idea that Ward is below average because his game is up-and-down is just nonsense. Who would you consider to be a league-average goalie?

The idea that many Canes fan can't fathom that it is possible Ward "may" be as low as 16 out of 30 starting goalies in the league is nonsense.

Year after year some still try to argue that he is "elite". Elite in my opinion is the top 3 or top 10% of the starters, maybe you can stretch it to top 5. While Ward at his best may have top 5 talent, he has never shown it with enough consistency to be considered there.

Goalies who have been consistently better for a least a couple of years that I would rather have on a nightly basis include: Lundqvist, Rinne, Fleury, Rask, Brodeur, Anderson, Backstrom, Price, Hiller, Luongo, Niemi, Crawford, Quick.

Throw in guys like - Nabokov, Miller, Fasth, Vokoun, Schneider, Smith - into the mix, is it really nonsense or unrealistic to consider that Ward may be in the bottom half of starting goalies in the league.
 

Anton Babchuk

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Nov 3, 2005
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Cam Ward's save percentage vs. the league average.

05-06 - Cam Ward: .882. League average: .901
06-07 - Cam Ward: .897. League average: .905
07-08 - Cam Ward: .904. League average: .909
08-09 - Cam Ward: .916. League average: .908
09-10 - Cam Ward: .916. League average: .911
10-11 - Cam Ward: .923. League average: .913
11-12 - Cam Ward: .915. League average: .914
12-13 - Cam Ward: .896. League average: .910
 

rocky7

DAT 13
Feb 9, 2013
3,479
1
God's country
Interesting stats. Everyone has some poor stretches. Cam Ward is being paid as an "elite" goalie and is expected to play like one consistently. A bad game here and there is usual, stretches of poor play isn't for a guy making his salary.
 

GoCanes2013

Registered User
May 7, 2009
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Raleigh
In Fantasy Baseball I've seen the concept of 'Replacement Value' or 'Value over Replacement' - you take an average player (league average) and look at how much better or worse your guy is comparatively. Like the post above - do we have similar stats for the other Starting goalies? To stack them up and see where Cam sits in regards to the league average for the past few years would be interesting.
 

TheBigKahuna

Registered User
Dec 6, 2010
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Kahuna, how do u really feel about Ward??/ Cant wait till he proves you wrong..


I've already expressed how I feel: He's an average goaltender. He shows brief moments of brilliance, but negates those with play like the last two games. He's being paid like an elite goaltender, but has yet to show the ability to play big on a consistent, nightly basis.


I'd love to see him turn into a world beater, but he's really only shown that in the post season, several years ago.
 

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