Player Discussion When are Juulsen and Mete going to produce points?

[bleuetbio]

what I've learned of Juulsen with years is that he's typical late boomer material. He needs time and add experience. I expect this year to be a year where he'll learn NHL hockey smarts and good positioning. He's the kind of player where you cant expect everything to happen at the same time. We cant expect to get a 21-22 yo superstar. We have to swing more about a future 25 yo top pair in the making. That should be the target.

 

[Habaneros]

Let's not forget Mete did score and it counted ..for 5 minutes...


Soon as ya get the 1st ..it will come after i bet....don't think that isn't in any young players heads..."my first"...longer it goes with out happening, more it plays with the mind..

The Habs d core(3 4 5 6 7) got to start putting up points...when/if they do this team will be very dangerous...Getting SW back will be huge...just as long as he doesn't injury anyone with his shot on the Habs...

 

[Habs76]

Juulsen's never gonna be a big producer, 20-30 points potentially. But he's a low scoring, defensive guy ala Lindell, Dumoulin.

Mete honestly isn't that great offensively. Solid puckmover, but he's not very active offensively, doesn't lead the rush either. The beauty of his game lies in his transitioning the puck, and the fact that with his speed and agility it's nearly impossible to get behind him.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

So you don’t think Juulsen could play on the Pens or the leads 2nd pair? Seriously ??
Stop overrating other teams players and underrating our own
juulsen could easily be a 4 at this age on a lot of teams. Kid is solid

At this moment he could probably play on the penguins defense(they are very bad) but they are not the best defense in the NHL same with Toronto but no he would not crack the Capitals, Bolts, Sharks, Jets, Predators top 4. I'm not overating the other team player quite the contrary I'm being realist. He is a rookie and asking him to shutdown superpower is not easy task when it counts (the playoffs). I gave him high praise when I mentioned he was going to be one of the top shutdown defenseman in the NHL and that's all you got to say? He will have his struggle and I repeat (if it was not clear) he is an incredible asset to have.

 

[dinodebino]

Why is this important?

 

[montreal]

He did have a great year as a 17yr old, but then they pulled the reins in, but it appeared he found his groove the next couple years regardless. Not sure if Constantine had anything to do with that.

yes Constantine had something to do with it. They also lost Scherbak who was by far their go to guy for offense. He had 85 pts that year that Juulsen put up 52 but then the next year their leading scorer had 58 pts. He was on pace for 33 pts so a big drop in production but then the next year which was his last in the dub, he was on pace for 50 pts. Their top 2 scorers had 78/75 pts. He was injured and missed time for the WJC's but still not the season we would have hoped for someone that did so well at 17.

Why is this important?

rookies that struggle to produce it can mess with their confidence. For Mete to play on the top pairing for large parts of his 55 games and not have a single goal (that counts), that can't be easy for a 19 and now 20 year old.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Noah has never been a point producer, just a solid Dman who can shut things down and clear the defensive zone. He's doing that in the NHL, its perfect. Mete is on the bubble, his speed will only take him so far before he has to start doing something.. he's too small to be effective in a shutdown role. Not sure what the team sees for him in the future.

you really don't see what we all see in Mete ? He has every tool, and he is talented enough to make an amazing career in modern hockey.

He only lacks size but even there, there was plenty of small offensive D men, just right now there is Krug, Dumba, Elis, Girard, Karlsson is 5'11, Butcher, Spurgeon, etc..... Mete is an amazing D and I compare him to almost any one in the example I gave you.

 

[Habs]

you really don't see what we all see in Mete ? He has every tool, and he is talented enough to make an amazing career in modern hockey.

He only lacks size but even there, there was plenty of small offensive D men, just right now there is Krug, Dumba, Elis, Girard, Karlsson is 5'11, Butcher, Spurgeon, etc..... Mete is an amazing D and I compare him to almost any one in the example I gave you.

I like Mete, but I'm honestly not confident he will break out. Hope he does.

 

[Tyson]

Juulsen's never gonna be a big producer, 20-30 points potentially. But he's a low scoring, defensive guy ala Lindell, Dumoulin.

Mete honestly isn't that great offensively. Solid puckmover, but he's not very active offensively, doesn't lead the rush either. The beauty of his game lies in his transitioning the puck, and the fact that with his speed and agility it's nearly impossible to get behind him.

This is where it’s concerning, typically smallish guys are fast and puck movers which means decent stats. It won’t make sense for a smallish D not put up some offense. I hope it comes

 

[Stive Morgan]

I don't think anyone expected Juulsen to be a point producer at the NHL level. He's been great. He's 4th in the league for plus minus (not that plus minus has much bearing but it's a reflection if how good he's been defensively)

 

[Habs76]

This is where it’s concerning, typically smallish guys are fast and puck movers which means decent stats. It won’t make sense for a smallish D not put up some offense. I hope it comes

I think he'll be a 30-point defensemen who gets a lot of assists thanks to his transition game, I don't know if he'll ever actually be a big offensive contributor though.

 

[Big Lurk]

I like Mete, but I'm honestly not confident he will break out. Hope he does.

His shot is weak as hell fam
I Just hope he can find his way to the score sheet

 

[Shabs]

Metes shot leaves something to be desired. Instead of trying to score from the point, he should instead just try to get quick quality shots through in net with the idea of deflecting or for rebounds, not goals. Like Rafalski.

 

[Andrei79]

I personally want them to be creating offensie chances, not points per say at this point. But, theyre not doing even that. In Metes case, whats concerning is hes doing less than when he started.

Thats not a good sign. In the NHL, once you go a few years without scoring much its really, really hard to get out of that hole. Anyways, I've always maintained how much I'd rather see these guys brought up slowly in this market.

 

[Archijerej]

I never said that Juulsen has no value. I think he is a keeper. I think he add incredible value to our team. I just said idealy he is not a top 4 on a stanley cup winning roster. He is a top shutdown defenseman though.

He reminds me of Scott Hannan who was highly valuable at his peak.

But why would a top shutdown defenseman (your words) not get top 4 minutes on a contending team?

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

But why would a top shutdown defenseman (your words) not get top 4 minutes on a contending team?

In the modern NHL, it is a huge burden on the team if players with lots of TOI do not produce at an appropriate rate. You pretty much seal your fate with that.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Thanks for a good discussion.

I bring up Mete and Juulsen because I think they haven't established themselves yet. By the halfway mark of the season we will have a clearer picture but at the moment I don't see either of them becoming irreplaceable NHLers.

They're still very young and can (and probably will) develop and improve but I hope they're not done developing and working on their skills and toolset just yet. If they're not going to produce, they shouldn't be playing big minutes. It's a burden on the team if the back-end doesn't carry, win, keep, and dish the biscuit regularly.

 

[Kriss E]

Creating points can be tricky and those guys are still young. However, I expect neither to become pt producing machines. I don't think either have top 2 potential.

 

[Archijerej]

In the modern NHL, it is a huge burden on the team if players with lots of TOI do not produce at an appropriate rate. You pretty much seal your fate with that.

Some top four defensemen from the recent semi-finalists: Orpik, Engelland, McNabb, Stralman, Girardi.

 

[THE HOFF]

If I'm not mistaken, Mete spent a lot of time at RD in junior. It'll be interesting to see if moving him back there would have any effect on his point totals. In addition, expecting more than twenty points for either player without playing them on the PP is ridiculous.

So much this. It would be pointless to compare them to players who have been sheltered and are used on pp. They are playing the hard minutes, they are the least of my concern.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Never. This is what happens when you bring young players in too early on defense. They focus on not making mistakes so they keep their spot and they never test their offensive skills against their competition and suddenly those skills regress rather than progress and their game takes that shape. A no risk defender with little offensive upside.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

But why would a top shutdown defenseman (your words) not get top 4 minutes on a contending team?

Well it depends. In my perfect scenario of a top contender I would have one top pair of 2 ways defenseman ahead the peaking order like Josi, McDonagh, Suter, Carlson type eating tons of minute (25-30 minutes). Juulsen type would be sharing time with other defenseman and take care of the pk/defensive assignement. In relative ice time my 2 bottom pairs (which would include Juulsen would play between 15-18 minutes) one more defensively responsible and one more offensive minded. The defensive/shutdown pair would play a bit more when winning and less when trailing.

Right now I think our team only have one top 2 way defenseman which I mentioned (Suter, Carlson type) in Weber (but he is going to eventually slow down). The player i'm hopeful can develop like that are Fleury/ Brook at best casr scenario maybe Romanov. As for Juulsen I would like to pair him with another similar defenseman (reliable defensively). As for the offensive pair something like Reilly/Petry could work (although I would like to trade Petry for a younger/cheaper version)

Back to Juulsen he is a key player that we need to keep.

 

[417]

Never. This is what happens when you bring young players in too early on defense. They focus on not making mistakes so they keep their spot and they never test their offensive skills against their competition and suddenly those skills regress rather than progress and their game takes that shape. A no risk defender with little offensive upside.

Sorry...i'm not buying this.

Neither Mete or Juulsen, even in the OHL and WHL respectively, has ever really shown an ability to be high point producing Dmen.

Juulsen had an impressive season points wise as a 17yr old, but that's mainly because he played on a team that had more offensive depth. The following year, that offensive depth moved on, and Juulsen's numbers suffered.

Mete's best offensive season in London yielded 44pts in 50 games...and this was in his D+1 season.

Maybe them not putting up points at this juncture of their NHL careers is because neither is ever going to be a big point producer, they're not going to generate offense on their own. As their junior statistics attest too, the points they put up is going to be circumstancial...and those circumstances are if the team around them has offensive talent...they're both good enough to get their fair share of points.

But on a team like Montreal, whose top scorer is unlikely to surpass 60 maybe 65pts at best...neither Mete or Juulsen is going to buck that trend and put up 50pts. That's not the type of Dmen they are.

None of this has anything to do with them being brought in "too early".

They are just not purely offensive Dmen.

Both have enough natural talent to put up 30ish points if the talent around them is strong...but to expect them to put up points on a team that struggles to score, is unrealistic.

 

[snakeye]

If Mete was traded to TBL instead of Sergachev, the whole fan base right now would be crying about how we traded a future Norris caliber dman.

 

[Habs]

Metes shot leaves something to be desired. Instead of trying to score from the point, he should instead just try to get quick quality shots through in net with the idea of deflecting or for rebounds, not goals. Like Rafalski.

He doesn't have a 'great' shot, nothing booming from the point. I'm sure the team will have him playing C soon enough.