Discussion in 'Winnipeg Jets' started by Board Bard, Oct 19, 2018.
Who's worth more relative to his payday, Wheeler or Byfuglien?
I wish I had an answer for you.
Easily Buff as we already know that he's provided value for two of his 5 year deal and looks to be on track for year 3. Couple that with only 2 years of term left after this and it is far less risky.
Wheeler doesn't start his 5 year deal until next season and it carries significantly more risk.
Buff has made a much bigger difference to this team thus far this season. Will that hold throughout the season who knows but if I was making a decision based on recency bias I am going with Buff. Also, there is also the fact that Buff is playing in a position where we are weaker. Buff would be much harder to replace than Wheeler. We have 5 or 6 great wingers on this team. Beyond Buff we have Mo and Trouba. Buff filling a position where there is less depth means he is more valuable to us and worth more.
Also note how inconsistent this was with my attitude of Buff last few years. I have been a massive Buff hater and I was wrong.
Buff's ability to drag below average NHL talent to acceptable levels might be more valuable than any winger in the NHL.
What he said.
I don't think that was the question. It isn't asking which is a better contract. Just look at 1 payday. Who provides more value? Based on the difference in the team with/without Buff that we have just seen, it is easily Buff. That is on this year's contract, much less next years. But Wheeler's leadership doesn't show there. The difference wouldn't show even if Wheeler missed a couple of games. It would show if he was really gone though.
OTOH, Buff's value is magnified by our lack of a #4 Dman, or even a good #5 who can step up. Buff in the lineup carries a #6 in a #4 role. Buff out leaves 2 #6's playing together as #3 & #4. They get exposed.
Last playoffs and the start of this season has upped my appreciation for him. Not only is he great but he also makes a team that much more fun to watch and he's a major presence for the team. You know the saying, The real use of gunpowder is to make all men tall. Well I think there's something to be said about Buff making all the Jets stand taller.
I associate value with play and contract. Buff is more valuable for what he makes then Wheeler. Defense is a more important position and as mentioned Buff can drive a pairing with an Inferior talent. Wheeler right now is more passenger on his line at ES then driver so its not a hard question to answer. Buff is also a leader in the room so that part is a wash.
Buff is a different kind of leader. That is a good thing. I wouldn't quite call it a wash though. Wheeler wears the 'C' and is the leader, but I agree with all your points.
Even with the improvement in the 2nd line (are they back to being 2nd yet?), I think Wheeler and Scheif need to be split up if we are to get the full value out of Wheeler. As it is, he will continue to be a passenger.
Thanks for explaining that. Yes, it's more a now consideration I'm thinking of without hanging term onto it. Really next year when Wheeler's new deal kicks in and he and Buff are both working on a new(ish) UFA contract -- who's better bang for buck? Kinda hard to extrapolate those guys a year from now and come up with a ratio of value for that time and place. But I guess any reasons will do.
For the absolute right now I'd be tempted to go with Buff, mainly because of depth issues. For term of contract, Wheeler's here for so much longer that he needs to be a superman to maintain full value. If Buff makes it through this year without embarrassing himself he'll have cleared the hump already and is almost a rental (theoretically speaking).
The line up on paper is always messed up. If you go by playing time it's
Is that the TOI from last night?
Regardless, I think it is a little more complicated than that. There is a more subtle vibe about how they play and how Mau uses them, his apparent confidence in them. It was my opinion that CLT was the de facto 2nd line for at least the first 5 games. The last 2, I'm not so sure. Not based entirely on TOI.
Significantly more risk--I'll say !! --it's a very risky contract for the Jets, and the one that could really hurt the hockey club. He isn't a super star in the NHL, but just an above average hard working forward, and a good leader.
I'd really would like to have see him signed for about $ 7 mil over 4 years, but I guess the Jet's thought they'd lose him to free agency, and they likely would have. If he could keep in very good shape, like a guy like Marleau for the Leafs, it may work out to be OK for both sides ?? I think we lose in the last 2 years of that contract though. It's risky !!!
That is one hell of a lot of money to pay to a guy with a little over average talent level.
Buff's contract is a great one, and we'll get full value plus for it- there's no comparison IMO.
Oops, I was thinking Wheeler would be easier to replace than Byfuglien and voted for him, not realizing what the question actually was.
260 lb 50 point defensemen who hit like linebackers don't grow on trees. Neither do 70 point wingers...but they turn up a little more frequently (there's at least one or two others on the Jets alone).
you really couldn't be more wrong. He Is actually a superstar. He just hasn't been recognised as one.
NHL Player Stats in Last 5 Seasons
take a look at who is above Blake and who is Below him on this list and try and say he isn't worth the money.
appreciate blake but buff brings so much more to this team and im glad all the ppl who were so harsh on him before are now realizing his faults at times can be annoying but his net positive far far outweighs them. when the game matters he takes command and delivers
I'd rather have Gaudreau and his contract. But you are right he is in good company.
Well Skidooboy, I respect your opinion on this, but I don't agree. I'd go as far as to say that Wheeler is a star player for the Jets--not a super star. The kind of players that are superstars are players like:
1) McDavid -superstar, and likely a "generational player" ( come by rarely)
2) Crosby- superstar
3) Malkin- superstar
4) Mathews -starting to look like a superstar
To me, Wheeler is not in the class of a super star. As I said, I'd consider him a Star player on the Jets, and also somewhat of one in the NHL. He's really on the border of being very good and a Star in the NHL- he is very good !!!
We all have our own opinion though, and see things from different perspectives.
I remember the days when "Buff should play RW" narrative was prevalent here...
If Wheeler provides the same or greater value for his payday than Buff has 2+ years into his, it will involve him hoisting a Stanley Cup or two.
Other than his rough stretch in early 2016-17, Buff has been full value for his deal and then some.
This. I love Wheeler and I'm freaking thrilled he's still a Jet, but the way Buff can turn crappy D into something palatable is flippin insane
Wheeler never misses games so we can't really say what the team is like without him...we know what the Jets are like without Buff.
I think the edge goes to Buff especially if we are considering playoffs. If/When Wheeler goes down, we have LAine to step up...there is no replacement for Buff. He seems to be making smarter decisions in tight games and taking less "less desirable" penalties too.
If Buff is still in shape and can play 18-20 or so minutes a game in a strictly shutdown role, I'd re-sign him for 2 more years. He's a smart player that will, I think, adapt well as he ages.
edit ... Are we taking Wheeler's current deal in this?
Wheeler's "low fuel" light is on.
I totally agree with 10 Ducky 10 here-I think it be a smart move to resign Buff, when he's up, and I think I'd go 2-3 years more on him. He's a bigtime asset for the Jets, and he doesn't appear to be slowing up much.
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