What's up with PK Subban?

[saffronleaf]

What a steal for Nashville. Outright robbed Montreal.

 

[MakeTheGoalsLarger]

The last couple years in Montreal he wasn't scoring as much? You mean when he scored the most points in his career, earning a top 3 Norris finnish, and followed that by being Montreal's leading scorer until well after his season ending injury?

When you don't understand something and a lot of other people do, perhaps try stopping and considering if you're the one who's wrong.

Seems to me the guy you are repyling to spent a lot of time watching PK and you are trying to make him look like a fool because you spent a few minutes reading his statistics.You wrote absolutely nothing about PK's play in your reply.

All he wrote makes sense for anyone who watched him enough.

 

[Shady Machine]

I think he's been great from what I've seen.

 

[Lebowski]

The last few years in Montreal he was already not the same guy anymore. That is why I didn't care losing him. He was once a spectacular abrasive guy but he pretty much had stopped being that way, he was scoring far less and the hitting was nonexistant. I remember in the boards we were wondering why it had been such a while that he had delivered a thunderous hit that made you excited to watch him.

That is why I was scratching my head at the outcry cause it's like the anti-trade guys were acting nostalgic of the old PK. Who had not been there in a while.

"the last couple of years", you mean the year he finished 3rd in Norris voting, and the following year where he was on pace for a personal best in points?

 

[KingBran]

He is an above average D-man that has a HUGE personality that demands attention.

 

[Fazkovsky]

its obvious polle wanted to replace weber with a younger dman that has as much or even better skills

clever move for his organisation

I still think this isnt a dreadful move for the habs. Pk for the right return would have been a good move hockey wise, not business wise. Pk sells!

 

[Lebowski]

its obvious polle wanted to replace weber with a younger dman that has as much or even better skills

clever move for his organisation

I still think this isnt a dreadful move for the habs. Pk for the right return would have been a good move hockey wise, not business wise. Pk sells!

Any examples of players moved "for the right price" that were not good hockey moves?

That's what being moved for the right price implies in itself

 

[NotProkofievian]

Seems to me the guy you are repyling to spent a lot of time watching PK and you are trying to make him look like a fool because you spent a few minutes reading his statistics.You wrote absolutely nothing about PK's play in your reply.

All he wrote makes sense for anyone who watched him enough.

Lol, Kimota was perhaps one of the most odious anti-Subban posters on the Montreal board after the trade. He described a sense of ''relief'' at the trade. He's on record as saying that even if the Predators go on to win multiple cups in a row, he'd still like the trade for Montreal. I'm not sure the size of grain of salt that should accompany Kimota's posts vis-a-vis Subban is safe for human consumption.

I've watched Subban plenty. Care to explain to me how a year in which Subban finished top 3 in Norris voting having reached career high totals in goals and assists could accurately be described as ''not the old Subban,'' and would be indicative of a player who shouldn't really be missed? Because he did say the ''last couple'' years.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

He is an above average D-man that has a HUGE personality that demands attention.

Agreed

His Norris was the strike year so really... I honestly didn't think he deserved that but he's a solid 2nd pair guy IMO with a flair for the dramatics. Not my type of player but he obviously plays well enough to help his team.

I know what you mean about the Norris year but he's definitely a top pairing defenseman

I mean on Nashville. I think he's their 4th best behind Josi, Ellis, and Ekholm. He's not a 2nd pair on every team Nash is just loaded.

I think Josi is their best defenseman but Subban is a very close 2nd.

He's the most complete defenceman on Nashville followed by Ellis, Josi, then Ekholm.

Josi is the best offensive player.

One on one Subban is the best shutout player.

Ekholm is the best defensively.

There is no first pair second pair. There's a top four.

Nice post - they have a great top 4

As a Nashville fan, Subban has been a great defensive player this postseason. I think Ellis has been our best defenseman so far in these playoffs.

Regardless, there isn't much gap between Josi, Ellis, Subban, and Eckholm right now.

Ellis was such a good junior player - amazing how good he is despite his size - what a great top 4!

Hockey wise it was smart. Pk is very very good player but I am very sorry, any habs fan saying he was elite and he was able to change results of games on his own saw it's not true. Pk can't do that. To me convincing that PK could help us win games day and day out wasn't true. If you tell me Carey Price, then yes.

Totally agree. As a Hab fan my biggest beef with Subban was his ineffectiveness on the PP. I think he is a great dman but I'm not sure he is the type of #1 like Doughty Karlsson Keith in his prime or Hedman that can put a team on his back. That's why I think it's a great fit for him in Nashville, and Weber is a better fit in Montreal.

The real answer is that Subban was never that good to begin with and being on a team with other actually good defensemen shows that.

Not saying he isn't good because he is but the fact people think flashy, flamboyant and a fan favorite makes someone the best is sad.

Before I get jumped here, I think he's a great person and I love his personality and his work with kids. I don't dislike Subban at all.

I understand the spirit of what you are saying but Subban is really good. He's a super solid defenseman, definitely a top dman and is playing great in Nashville. Maybe his flashy plays are overrated but I think his defense and competitiveness are very underrated.

He's not mine either (I actually can't stand him). But he's easily a top pairing defensemen. I hate him... but he's very very good.

Definitely top pairing - easily. I like Subban but I am a Habs fan happy with the trade - I think Weber is a better fit in Montreal.

You DO know he was a Norris finalist in 14-15?

Statistically, he should have won it that year too.

You sound like one of those guys that still thinks Subban is an offensive defenseman.

He was amazing in 14-15 - his best year.

The Norris year I preferred Markov personally - I'm a big Markov fan but Markov finished very high in the Norris that year and logged quite a few more minutes than Subban. It was a weird year for the Norris but whatever. Those awards aren't the cup - the cup's what matters and winning games.

I'd say Suter is comparable to Subban. Subban would have the edge of course, but there isn't miles between them like Faulk or Jones.

Sounds right - Suter is definitely a top dman.

I respect both your opinions, even though your opinions of what constitutes a fact is factually wrong.

Yes true. I actually think the trade was good for both teams (imagine that!)

But it's not. Weber is literally better than Subban. Anyone who has half a clue knows this. To deny it at this point in time is just silly and asinine. Subban may become better than Weber in the future, but he simply is not right now at this stage of their careers.

They are different players. I think Weber is more helpful to Montreal than Subban was but Subban fits nicely in Nashville. No question both players have qualities the other one lacks.

The last couple years in Montreal he wasn't scoring as much? You mean when he scored the most points in his career, earning a top 3 Norris finnish, and followed that by being Montreal's leading scorer until well after his season ending injury.

I think the main point the poster was making was scoring goals and making big hits. He might have been loose with his years, but definitely Subban's last year in MTL he didn't score many goals (6 I think). The Habs were very bad and Subban's season was extremely disappointing.

 

[SenzZen]

He is an above average D-man that has a HUGE personality that demands attention.

Why do I get the impression that even that was hard for you to muster?

Laughable assessment, though. He's a very good D-man.

 

[Devilsfan118]

He is an above average D-man that has a HUGE personality that demands attention.

Sure, if by "above average" you mean "elite game changer", then we agree.

 

[yababy]

love the recency bias here.
Subban is one of the top 3 defenceman of the past 5-6 years.
He wasn't a Norris finalist this year so he's automatically considered a 2nd pairing guy?

Subban can win a game on his own - something Connor McDavid didn't do this playoffs. Does that mean McDavid is a 2nd line centre?

 

[Karl Eriksson]

You could make the case that without the trade, the Habs would still be in the playoffs (at least they could have made it to round 2).

I think Nashville would still be there with Weber, but Subban might have been able to help generate something offensively when the Habs could just not buy a goal vs the Rangers.

 

[KingBran]

Why do I get the impression that even that was hard for you to muster?

Laughable assessment, though. He's a very good D-man.

Sure, if by "above average" you mean "elite game changer", then we agree.

Among NHL d-men this season.

22nd in points.
27th in goals.
20th in PP points.
251st in +/-

He is above average. He is really good. You can laugh all you want or act like he is elite. If anyone here thinks Subban is Elite then there are well over 50 elite d-men in the league right now.

 

[Fazkovsky]

love the recency bias here.
Subban is one of the top 3 defenceman of the past 5-6 years.
He wasn't a Norris finalist this year so he's automatically considered a 2nd pairing guy?

Subban can win a game on his own - something Connor McDavid didn't do this playoffs. Does that mean McDavid is a 2nd line centre?

No, Subban cant win games on his own. As I mentioned in the past, he was part of this organization's worst losing streak in history. If Pk could win a game on his own it wouldn't have happened.

Plus, he scored a few GWG's for us in the playoffs in the past but scoring a GWG isn't winning a game on his own.

Subban's play the year he got traded was one of the main reason why he got traded. He couldn't score on the Powerplay and neither could other players.

 

[Drake744]

Among NHL d-men this season.

22nd in points.
27th in goals.
20th in PP points.
251st in +/-

He is above average. He is really good. You can laugh all you want or act like he is elite. If anyone here thinks Subban is Elite then there are well over 50 elite d-men in the league right now.

All Preds/Blues squabbling aside, his plus minus was bad (in the regular season) but to go simply off cumulative totals on the year isn't totally fair because he missed 20 percent of the year due to injury.

 

[Baemon Severson*]

If we had to categorize Subban as an offensive, defensive or two way defenseman, which would he be? And if he is a two way in your opinion, is he slightly more offensive or defensive orientied?

Back when I used to watch him pre-2014 in Montreal he was undoubtedly an offensive defenseman, but now im not sure.

Two-way with more of an aptitude for offense, but still a very good defender

 

[KingBran]

All Preds/Blues squabbling aside, his plus minus was bad (in the regular season) but to go simply off cumulative totals on the year isn't totally fair because he missed 20 percent of the year due to injury.

All the more reason he isn't Elite.

There is nothing about the Blues here and no squabbling. That's something you Preds fans bring up to me to try and grind my gears. I haven't made a post about the Blues on these boards since they were eliminated yet that's all people can say to me sometimes instead of staying on topic.

Subban is a great player, above average. He isn't "elite" sorry. That term is thrown out too often these days. It's just my opinion. Has nothing to do with what team I root for or when / how they were eliminated.

Even with missing those games his averages are around 20-25 range for rank in the league. He is good, above average. Not elite. I would say there are maybe 3-5 D-men in this league that I would call Elite right now but a couple still have a long way in their career to go before their career can be seen as "elite."

 

[HockeyThoughts]

Among NHL d-men this season.

22nd in points.
27th in goals.
20th in PP points.
251st in +/-

He is above average. He is really good. You can laugh all you want or act like he is elite. If anyone here thinks Subban is Elite then there are well over 50 elite d-men in the league right now.

If anyone here thinks you are an objective poster/make a compelling argument.

What, context doesn't matter? Missing 16 games doesn't matter?

Let's try it again pro-rating for 82 games played:
T9th in points.
T12nd in goals.
T10th in PPP.

...and your argument goes out the window.

 

[Drake744]

All the more reason he isn't Elite.

There is nothing about the Blues here and no squabbling. That's something you Preds fans bring up to me to try and grind my gears. I haven't made a post about the Blues on these boards since they were eliminated yet that's all people can say to me sometimes instead of staying on topic.

Subban is a great player, above average. He isn't "elite" sorry. That term is thrown out too often these days. It's just my opinion. Has nothing to do with what team I root for or when / how they were eliminated.

Even with missing those games his averages are around 20-25 range for rank in the league. He is good, above average. Not elite. I would say there are maybe 3-5 D-men in this league that I would call Elite right now but a couple still have a long way in their career to go before their career can be seen as "elite."

I'm not calling him elite. He's probably our third best defenseman. But I will say that he's far less the offensive defenseman he was in Montreal because he doesn't need to be. He's even acknowledged on the radio here that it's nice to just be told to show up, do your job, and not be the guy.

I was only saying the Preds and Blues thing because I didn't want to make it seem like I was singling you out just to disagree with you. I didn't even know you made the post until I was responding.

 

[carter333167]

Subban is the second best defenseman on the Preds.

He probably is better than Weber at this point but only b/c of age. Weber probably will be considered to have had the slightly better career when they are retired.

He has a very loyal fanbase...great defenseman (though definitely not a top 5 defender) but his contract size doesn't make him a super-attractive asset.

 

[carter333167]

I'm not calling him elite. He's probably our third best defenseman. But I will say that he's far less the offensive defenseman he was in Montreal because he doesn't need to be. He's even acknowledged on the radio here that it's nice to just be told to show up, do your job, and not be the guy.

I was only saying the Preds and Blues thing because I didn't want to make it seem like I was singling you out just to disagree with you. I didn't even know you made the post until I was responding.

Assuming Josi is #1, who is #2?

 

[TheNuge]

The difference between Subban on the Preds, vs Subban on the Habs, was that the Habs built the entire offensive arrangement on the powerplay around where PK was going to be for the shot, Much like Alex Ovechkin the powerplay consisted of luring other players deep on to the side wall or into the corners and feeding it out to PK for a one-timer or a big slapper from the point.

You rarely see this on the Preds, they are much much deeper on the back end, and Pk is playing a lesser offensive role.

He is still the same player that can take over a game with the flick of the switch, but he still isnt on Erik Karlssons level. ( Sorry had to for all those Old HF debates about the best D-man lol )

 

[KevinRedkey]

Among NHL d-men this season.

22nd in points.
27th in goals.
20th in PP points.
251st in +/-

He is above average. He is really good. You can laugh all you want or act like he is elite. If anyone here thinks Subban is Elite then there are well over 50 elite d-men in the league right now.

Go ahead and name the 49 better dmen.

 

[KingBran]

If anyone here thinks you are an objective poster/make a compelling argument.

What, context doesn't matter? Missing 16 games doesn't matter?

Let's try it again pro-rating for 82 games played:
T9th in points.
T12nd in goals.
T10th in PPP.

...and your argument goes out the window.

It's playoff's, my team was knocked out by the team who has the player we are discussing. I don't expect anyone to believe what I say as objective.

He would be 13th in PPG so not sure how you got 9th. Are you taking his playoff numbers into account too? Again, He is good. Above average. Not elite. That's my only argument here.

I'm not calling him elite. He's probably our third best defenseman. But I will say that he's far less the offensive defenseman he was in Montreal because he doesn't need to be. He's even acknowledged on the radio here that it's nice to just be told to show up, do your job, and not be the guy.

I was only saying the Preds and Blues thing because I didn't want to make it seem like I was singling you out just to disagree with you. I didn't even know you made the post until I was responding.

Someone else was calling him elite. I know you weren't. No doubt not being "the guy" and having less pressure will be more beneficial to his game. He is a really good player.

No problem. I honestly have no problem with the Preds or Preds fans. I like the Preds and I hope they do well. I just feel like if I don't agree with everything someone says about the Preds or one of their players being great or something I just get called a sour Blues fan.

Ehhh, cest la vie. That's the internet.