What's the strategy with the bottom 6?

[diceman934]

The Hockey News ranked the Leafs prospect pool 29th overall and the Leafs went out and signed more UFAs and depth players then all other 29 organizations.

This two items are connected and "Don't play the Kids" the end result of rebuilding your entire bottom 6 with aging 28-30 year old vets at bargain bin prices and reclamation projects.

When you have a plan and are attempting to building towards having an ever improving team and continuous cup competitor then its counter productive to bring in a bunch of rental players each and every season that are not a part of the long term solution.. It would be better to "play the kids" give them experience and let them grow with the team.

Leafs current strategy seems to be Win Now, and likely because coach and GM know their time is running out without positive results.

I am a big supporter of playing the kids.....but we have to have them to play them....Levio and Holland are currently the only one's who may benefit from this thought process, Ashton is not an NHL player and I believe he will be dealt... Holland is a player who will stay with the big club or traded.

What other forward has shown anything deserving of playing at the NHL level thus far. You make space for players who can take spots and play a role in the NHL....in a year or two we may not need to sign any players to fill in, but looking at our current prospect pool of forwards it maybe 3 years. Burke killed us and Nonis has not been any better....

 

[Brock Radunske]

what are you talking about, we just had a summer of cap issues.

have you forgotten that we just had to let all our UFAs walk for nothing because none of them could fit under our cap constraints?

and all this AFTER we bought out gleason and opened what? 3 million in cap space by doing so.


I don't know how you view cap space or what you do or do not call an issue but from my POV.

to finish 8th last

then have to buy out gleason to clear 3m cap space

lose Bolland ,Kuli,Raymond for nothing and fill their spots with 3 1 million dollar scape heap scrubs , to me that looks like a team that is getting worse not better.

at the best case , we have not improved this 8th last place team, so ya I'd call that serious cap issues.

I disagree with this. We let everyone walk because
1. We did not have success last year, or any year aside from the shortened season
2. New management = new culture. A lot of those guys had awful advanced stats.
3. A lot of them were severely overpaid by their new teams.

 

[diceman934]

to what I bolded.

I judge a player on what they can get on the open market and what their perceived value is across the entire league. If the best they can do is pull out a career saving 1y/m contract well expect to get what you pay for is my motto on that.

santa is a 28 year old journeyman who is on his 4th team in 3 years , drafted 10 years ago with only 257 games players and a stellar -43, fall in love if ya want, I ain't impressed.

winnik journeyman 5 team in 5 years, 29 years old very hohum career, like I said,2 examples right there of guys on the fringe of being out of the nhl.

kontiola 29 never was good enough to play in the nhl or did not have the desire to, either way, these will be his first ever games against the big boys, again major hohum.

koma 27 and only 42 nhl games played, again hohum,

when you are talking about IMPROVING the 8th last place team and the likes of Bolland,Kuli,ray ray, I find it beyond hohum in comparison.

I think folks keep forgetting this is all bases on the premise that the 8th last place team needed major work to "just compete for a lowly playoff spot"

Sorry you are wrong....played 12 NHL games with Chicago and had 5 points.

He is player who is more then a scrub...he had 121 points in 127 games in the AHL ......think about it....if he was a Leaf prospect he would be hailed as the next one. Then add in that he lead his team in scoring this past year with Andrei Kostitsyn behind him in score. Last but not least is his international play....being name the best forward at the 2013 world championships is very impressive....do yourself a favor and look who was playing at the world championships....it is very impressive. This could be a very shrewd signing and not a scrub in anyway.

Not many on here give him any credit yet give Frattin a spot in the top 6 when it is him that will be in a struggle to get playing time as the year goes on.

 

[pucci2001]

Its as much this as to bring competition within our group starting in the preseason workouts. Hopefully all that fighting and jostling for ice transfers over with the mainstay guys and we don't become complacent and fall flat on our faces like we have so often in recent years.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

Championship teams are made with great 3rd and 4th lines, assuming lines 1 & 2 can score (as most teams lines can), and play ok defense, but its the grinders the heart and soul guys who win. I remember the great Leafs teams of 93/94, who was on the 3/4th lines? Osborne/Zezel/Krushelnyski/Berg/Manderville/Baumgartner, grinders, muckers, full of determination and heart, that's what wins championships (yes I know a goalie to)
If these 5 guys Nonis has signed turn into those 93/94 muckers....great signings!

 

[Pyrophorus]

It will only be Holland

Komarov-Kontiola-Clarkson
Booth-Holland-Winnik

Frattin/Bodie in the box

 

[New Liskeard]

What the hell? The Leafs have 11(12) guys fighting for 6 spots.
1. Who's going to making it?
2.Which will get demoted?
3. Who is press-boxing?
4. Any jumpers to the 2nd line?
5. Trade coming up? Possibly Kadri/Lupul out for Defence and one of these guys filling in?

Frattin - 2/3
Komarov 3
Kontiola 4
Santorelli 3
Booth 3
Holland 4
Ashton Marlies?
Orr Marlies?
Winnik 4
Bodie 4
Smith Marlies?

Komarov - Santorelli - Frattin
Booth - Holland - Winnik

Bodie, Kontiola in the pressbox?

Let's figure this out.

How bout letting training camp and the pre season allow things to sort themselves out?

 

[mikebel111*]

I am a big supporter of playing the kids.....but we have to have them to play them....Levio and Holland are currently the only one's who may benefit from this thought process, Ashton is not an NHL player and I believe he will be dealt... Holland is a player who will stay with the big club or traded.

What other forward has shown anything deserving of playing at the NHL level thus far. You make space for players who can take spots and play a role in the NHL....in a year or two we may not need to sign any players to fill in, but looking at our current prospect pool of forwards it maybe 3 years. Burke killed us and Nonis has not been any better....

Lol Ashton not an NHL player. He should score tonnes with Orr.
Believe what you want though.
Clearly NHL player. Must have some incorrect observations of an NHL player.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Top-6, bottom-6, wasn't that a Burke philosophy?

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Top-6, bottom-6, wasn't that a Burke philosophy?

I don't see that at all. Kontiola is not a checking forward nor is Santa. In the case of the latter, he's a depth playmaker with okay defensive acumen while the former may be top six playmaker. Booth is a speedy scorer who specialises around the net. The only checking forward would be Winnick and, arguably, Komarov so we're looking more like Chicago. Possession-drivers on all lines.

Having stated several times, I think it's time for the Kadri - Lupul pair to end, but if it sticks, we'll be seeing the line sheltered. Lupul is too much of a liability while Kadri isn't as defensively developed to carry the line. I doubt either Booth or Frattin as guys who can drive the net will be sufficient.

I'm thinking...

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Frattin/ Booth
Kontiola - Holland - Clarkson
Komarov - Winnick - Santa

The second line would be sheltered by the third line. You'd finally have two North-South forwards in Holland and Clarkson with Kontiola acting as the playmaker. I could see the line being very productive offensively even as it is tasked with much tougher minutes.

The third line would be sheltered with Frattin playing as the puck retriever. He's a compact forward who knows how to protect the puck. I can see him playing a Kulemin-esque role at a fraction of the cost. If Frattin isn't used, I can see Booth being used, but he's not really a puck retriever. However, he's pretty darn effective around the net.

The fourth line would further aid the sheltering process. We'll essentially have a fourth line that is built more like a checking line. Santa, being a depth playmaker, would enable effectiveness in the offensive zone, though. Despite being a fourth line, I could see it eating minutes similar to the mid-lines.

 

[Mike Martin]

Looking at these bottom six lineup predictions does anyone think that Clarkson is being given the lone Enforcer role whether or not he wants it?

 

[Mess]

Looking at these bottom six lineup predictions does anyone think that Clarkson is being given the lone Enforcer role whether or not he wants it?

We know Carlyle loves enforcers and Leafs lineup with only Clarkson as the sole physical player doesn't seem to match the coaches preferred style.

Troy Bodie as a minimum would be my guess.

 

[ULF_55]

We know Carlyle loves enforcers and Leafs lineup with only Clarkson as the sole physical player doesn't seem to match the coaches preferred style.

Troy Bodie as a minimum would be my guess.

It is going to be tough with all those fringe NHLers with experience fighting for the bottom 6 roles when the Leafs only prospect depth is bottom 6.

Those guys are important, almost as important as top 6 forwards.

Leafs top 6 forwards are for the most part flawed. Score lots of points and still end up being outscored.

 

[King85Kong]

Delete please, wrong thread. My bad.

 

[Magic Man]

I just want to see where everyone's head is at in regards to a potential camp battle for the last forward spot between Ashton and Bodie.

Why is it that the majority of Leafs fans seem to be more interested in Bodie starting in the NHL? Or is that just the way you believe management is thinking?

For a fanbase that had many on board with "play the kids" before the summer, this one move signals the opposite.

Bodie is 29 and has played the role of NHL/AHL tweener for years. That's basically what he is. He has never scored more than 15 goals in an AHL season, Ashton beat that number in 24 games last year. Ashton's been a better scorer everywhere, minus his NHL numbers at a young age.

Bodie doesn't really bring much help on the defensive side of the game. Ashton has been groomed as a PK'er during his time with the Marlies. There is potential for that to continue with the big club, especially with Spott's promotion.

They're both big and can skate. Although, Bodie's skating may be his best quality. They both fight and are fairly poor at it.

Would you rather a 29 year old with 15 point upside with limited two-way ability, who should perform at that level or would you rather a 23 year old with 30-40 point upside with potential to develop into special team's player, but may end up as a simply a younger version of the 29 year old player?

 

[crump]

Tough call because one of Bodie, Ashton, Frattin and perhaps Holland will be on the Marlies. Would Ashton clear waivers? Would Holland?

With Frattins bad year, you would think he has to really show something in training camp to get into the lineup.

There is no guarantee Kontiola comes over and earns a spot. It sounds like he is a shoe in for a top 9 spot from the Finns on the board.

Does Booth reclaim a career, does Santorelli play like he did to start in Vancouver?

So many questions, training camp and preseason will have the answers.

Personally, I don't think Ashton makes it.

 

[diceman934]

Lol Ashton not an NHL player. He should score tonnes with Orr.
Believe what you want though.
Clearly NHL player. Must have some incorrect observations of an NHL player.

Ashton appears lost more times then not and when he was up for 15 games in his first year he played plenty....yet produced nothing.

He has 3 assists to show for his body of work as an NHL player. His skating needs work and his hockey IQ is well below average. He is an AHL player and when given an opportunity at the NHL level he has shown nothing. Others given the same opportunity have at least produced more than 3 assist.

 

[false bobo]

No idea how it'll work out, but I'm a big fan of what management has done here. More depth than we know what do with. I expect to see quite a few different combinations used this season.

 

[AustonMitchWilly]

Throw **** at the wall and hope something sticks.