What's the plan ?

[Highlander23]

what really makes me scratch my head is how people on this board can expect to go from a 8th last place team to a contender in the matter of one off season... that's a pretty stupid mentality lol.

I don't expect to go from bottom 8 to contending team in one offseason, but i expect that the core players that failed 3 years in a row to be held responsable and traded (talking dion, lupul..)

We gave them a second, third chance and failed, why are we expecting the 4th time to be any different ?

 

[BlueMapleDawg]

name one young NHL ready player that Carlyle has refused to play on this team

He has given guys like Rielly, Gardiner, JVR, and Bernier premier roles on this team. If you can play you will get your minutes.

Holland, Ashton, D'Amigo, Frattin, Colborne, Komarov.

Rielly (early on), Gardiner (at times), Kadri (not enough TOI last year)

I think that about covers it.

 

[leafs in five]

name one young NHL ready player that Carlyle has refused to play on this team

He has given guys like Rielly, Gardiner, JVR, and Bernier premier roles on this team. If you can play you will get your minutes.

D'Amigo, Ashton, Holland?

all guys who sat in the press box or glued to the bench or in the minors in favour of Orr, McLaren, Bodie, bigger minutes for McClement.

i'm not against the idea of "playing the kids" but if the plan is to play the kids and at least get a high pick if we're bad, then that plan should include holding onto 2nd round picks.

Nonis goes into patient mode a summer after he buys out Grabo, rushes to replace Reimer, gives Clarkson 7 years. great.

 

[KuleminFan41]

they are finally going to start playing the kids, this team that has traded its 2nd round pick in back-to-back-to-back years, made a 5 year contract offer to Dave Bolland, and shipped out one its most NHL ready prospects in D'Amigo.

i'm sick of seeing the Islanders and Oilers thrown around here as silver linings. yeah, at least we don't have a huge stable of young talented players to show for almost a decade of bottom-10 finishes.

How many of those 2nd round picks have become NHL players in the last 6 seasons? I think only 1 of them played about 50 or 60 games thats it. People over-evaluate 2nd round draft picks to a ridiculous amount that its almost as coveted as a top 10 pick. What's with this obsession with D'Amigo all of the sudden now that we traded him? He was not the most ready prospect because if that were truly the case, he would have beaten out Carter Asthon to start the season last year.

It's annoying having to hear how amazing a player was as soon as they get shipped out of Toronto when no one really gave a damn before they left.

 

[Leafidelity]

amazing plan, and a natural progression from last summer's moves.

Please tell me your plan then, oh wise one.

 

[leafs in five]

what really makes me scratch my head is how people on this board can expect to go from a 8th last place team to a contender in the matter of one off season... that's a pretty stupid mentality lol.

we've been a bottom 10 team for almost a decade. the exception was the lockout season, and Nonis had no time for a few of the more important players on that team once they lost that series.

 

[Tonka]

I don't expect to go from bottom 8 to contending team in one offseason, but i expect that the core players that failed 3 years in a row to be held responsable and traded (talking dion, lupul..)

We gave them a second, third chance and failed, why are we expecting the 4th time to be any different ?

Would you do that with Crosby, Weber, etc.?

 

[rdawg1234]

Youth movement for sure, albeit we need a 4th line centre to be added.

Gonna see guys like Leivo, Ashton, Broll and Holland get a lot of playing time, but there's nothing wrong with that.

actually in my mind it will be an improvement(I mean how can it be worse than Orr-Mcclement-Mclaren) and with how damn weak the east is(BUF and OTT both tanking in our Division, BOS just lost depth, MTL is about the same) we will be competing for a spot IMO, as we do have a stronger d-core, great goaltending and a decent amount of scoring ability.

We're either gonna compete for a bottom end playoff spot with this youth similar to Detroit last season(3rd in division or wild-card) or we'll be a low-end top 10 pick again(6-12 range).

 

[Byron Bitz]

Again, what's the goal here ? make the playoffs or win the cup !! I see moves being made to squeeze into the playoffs but i'm not seeing any moves that tell me this team wants to win anything meaningfull !!

winning the cup is obviously the end goal but first we have to be able to make the playoffs while giving our young talent larger roles. Tanking is a major step backwards because it means the players on our roster arn't good. We want our young core players like kessel, jvr, bernier, kadri, rielly and gardiner to learn how to win and surrounding them by vets like robidas, lupul, phaneuf is the way to go. If that young core can reach their potential and we continue to surround them with the right talent than we can be a cup contender in the near future.

 

[leafs in five]

How many of those 2nd round picks have become NHL players in the last 6 seasons? I think only 1 of them played about 50 or 60 games thats it. People over-evaluate 2nd round draft picks to a ridiculous amount that its almost as coveted as a top 10 pick. What's with this obsession with D'Amigo all of the sudden now that we traded him? He was not the most ready prospect because if that were truly the case, he would have beaten out Carter Asthon to start the season last year.

It's annoying having to hear how amazing a player was as soon as they get shipped out of Toronto when no one really gave a damn before they left.

i never said D'Amigo is amazing. but if you want to preach patience then you should be able to exhibit it yourself. if you want to compete sooner and see trading 2nd round picks to teams that are much better than you as a way to accomplish that then fine, even though i disagree with that plan i don't think it's disingenuous. but the idea that it's been the plan all along to play the kids and if they're good, great, and if they're bad, great (picks) is absurd, because if that were the plan then the team wouldn't have been trading so many picks.

Nonis is one year removed from one of the most impulsive offseasons in memory.

 

[Highlander23]

Would you do that with Crosby, Weber, etc.?

Yeah lets compare dion/lupul to the best player and best D of the league, great idea !!

If i'm not too dumb, are you telling me that last year disaster is forgotten and nobody is responsable and everyone will be back like nothing have happened ?

 

[ChickenMcNugget]

I think people are jumping the ship here. yes we didn't make a big splash in FA but we still have a lot of cap room. I think the management has even hinted that trades are very real possibilites.

For me im hoping we get a real shutdown 3C and some good depthwingers

 

[leafs in five]

If that young core can reach their potential and we continue to surround them with the right talent than we will can be a cup contender in the near future.

like every page of every offseason thread has someone saying "what do you expect him to do, trade for Crosby? teams don't just give up no. 1 centres" type stuff in response to criticism of Nonis.

 

[leafs in five]

Please tell me your plan then, oh wise one.

if the plan is the play the kids then why did they offer Bolland 5 years?

 

[leafs in five]

Our core is made up of top 10 draft picks.

JVR - ? - Kessel
Nylander - Kadri - ?

Rielly - Phaneuf

Bernier

a fearsome team.

 

[Highlander23]

I think people are jumping the ship here. yes we didn't make a big splash in FA but we still have a lot of cap room. I think the management has even hinted that trades are very real possibilites.

For me im hoping we get a real shutdown 3C and some good depthwingers

I never talk about FA, because that should be reserved to good teams who need that last piece. All i'm saying is that we failed miserably with these same players and coach, yet we are happy doing the same thing again !!

look if the plan is to tank, i would be the first person to support this but we seem destined to be a bubble team AGAIN

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

Play the kids and surround them with vets. The direction seems pretty clear to me.

This is a development year for the likes of Kadri, Rielly and Gardiner. They'll have bigger roles for better or worse.

Yup, I get the same feeling as well. We will probably get good looks at Percy/Granberg/Leivo/McKegg this year as well

 

[The Hockey Life]

Playing the kids which is what they should have done a long time ago. The key to being a good team is doing well on draft day, not on July 1. Did you see the Kings make any moves yesterday?

 

[ACC1224]

Playing the kids which is what they should have done a long time ago. The key to being a good team is doing well on draft day, not on July 1. Did you see the Kings make any moves yesterday?

Any other Teams that didn't make moves yesterday?

 

[Tonka]

Yeah lets compare dion/lupul to the best player and best D of the league, great idea !!

If i'm not too dumb, are you telling me that last year disaster is forgotten and nobody is responsable and everyone will be back like nothing have happened ?

A failing core is a failing core, no matter who the core is.

 

[rdawg1234]

A failing core is a failing core, no matter who the core is.

What part of the core failed though?

and should we really let the supporting players who play the other 30-40 minutes a night go off easy?

In my eyes while Phaneuf is a piece I would be interested in moving, the rest of the core was quite good last season, but the secondary/supporting players were horrid.

We had no fourth line(legit they were boxers on skates) and our 2nd and 3rd lines rarely contributed. Add to that our defence was horrible throughout.

 

[Leafidelity]

if the plan is the play the kids then why did they offer Bolland 5 years?

Because they're also trying to insulate them with the right players. Bolland could have very well been the next Captain of the team. Don't be surprised if they do just that in Florida. Robidas and Polak were brought in to play with Gardiner and Rielly. Frattin is a cheap reclamation project that had chemistry with Kadri. They aren't adding players with attitude problems or individual mindsets. They're bringing in high character and high compete guys as glue around the players they've developed.

Your counterpoint is D'Amigo, but I don't think he was going to get third line minutes with Komarov and Clarkson on the third line for years.(Clarkson being signed with the previous mindset). I liked Jerry a lot, but Leo brings more to the table.

Make no mistake, this is a youth movement and it's about time.

 

[rdawg1234]

In my eyes we really should try out a 4th line of

Broll-Carrick/UFA-Devane

that's a 4th line that can actually contribute 5-10 minutes a game, not just one that goes out to fight.

 

[Daisy Jane]

if the plan is the play the kids then why did they offer Bolland 5 years?

because he's a young vet who won two cups? Seems obvi to me.


One of the complaints (and there was a massive list) was that the Leafs were too easy to play against last year.. So they want to go back to how they played two years ago because even if we missed the playoffs in the 82 game schedule - they were going down fighting. (Because three years ago - they totally collapsed and were being pushed around probably as easy as they were last year).

So for everyone complaining how "Oh my god, we're building the team that crashed against Boston in game 7." Ignore that aspect for a moment. But remember what every single team/player (Hell Gleason this season) said. There were two teams who were miserable to play against. #1 was Boston, because they smushed you, #2 was the Leafs because they smushed you. They found ways to win , if we were down in the game it wasn't a "Oh we're not going to come with in one, pull the goalie and lose." We always had a chance to be in the games.

We were down 3-1 in the Boston series and Jonas Siegal and James Mirtle (and every single reporter basically), thought the Leafs were delusional because to a man - every single player thought not just that they could make a series - but they could win the series. (and was 10 minutes away from doing it). they believed in each other, they fought for one another, you couldn't even breathe near Reimer without someone beating up the opposition.

that's what Nonis and Carlyle wants to accomplish first. If we're going to lose - at least go down with some pride. Don't be the team or the building that you show up, and the other team doesn't have to break a sweat.

We're finally growing within house - and people are complaining about it because it's not specifically the way they want it to happen.

I think the decision is - play the kids - surround them with veterans - ergo - you can challenge Rielly and put him on the #1 pairing at times, move him down when it's too much (and he's playing with Robidas, not Franson). Give Kadri more minutes etc. if we fall down in the standings but we're playing smartly, with the kids, etc - and draft smartly.


Regarding Lupul, Dion etc. again - people say this as if reports are out there that Dion is wanted by 98 percent of the league - and Nonis is turning them down. Even if you hate Lupul and Dion - you can't ignore they can bring us some assets and if we toss them for peanuts people would scream "crap asset management!"

Once again - the List of Eleven Players who were apart of 3 collapses is shrinking. Which is good. If we're no where near close to a playoffs spot - it wouldn't surprise me to see a lot of players jettisoned.

the direction seems pretty clear to me.

 

[Drew75]

Haha - talk about the "damned if do, damned if you don't" scenario ....

Everyone here is screaming to "play the kids", and when we make moves that will give lots of ice time to kids who are just now starting to be ready, then they're stupid for not making big moves that would take that ice time away

We have Kessel, JVR, Nylander, and Kadri as young (yes, I did just call Kessel young - deal with it ) high-end talent up front. Guys like Holland, Leivo, Brown, Gauthier, Johnsson, Biggs, etc will challenge for spots in the top 9 over the next year or two.

We have Reilly & Gardiner as high end talent on the back end, with guys like Finn, Percy, Granberg, MacWilliams, Nillson, and Loov to battle for playing time over the next year or two. These guys are supported by Dion, who - like him or hate him - IS a bonafide top pairing D man.

Bernier is manning the nets, and while it would be nice to have more depth behind him.

Overall, there is some solid young talent to build around. If Nylander can eventually take the #1C spot, we're golden. In the meantime, however, Management is ensuring that we suround that talent with veterans who can insulate them when required, provide guidance, and buy time not to rush any kid into a spot they're not ready for.

There is the plan - now will it work? That's the $1million question, but only time will tell. Don't like the plan because we didn't tank? Well ... too bad, as there's nothing you can do about that is cry in your cheerios