Exactly, you aren't going to replace a player like Frazen for his cap hit, HELL NO!
Exactly, you aren't going to replace a player like Frazen for his cap hit, HELL NO!
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
Agree I cant understand Wing fans that get down on Franzen, Granted for his size he will play soft from time to time and he does float to much but yet he will still give us close to 30 goals per season and as many assist he only makes $3.95m per season for 7 more years and he still can put up between 50 to 60 points per season for what he makes he's still producing what do Wing fans expect out of him for that kind of money 80 point seasons that's just not going to happen if we cant get out of Franzen 25 Goals and 25 Assist for 50 points per season I will be extermely happy.
I would do $4.5 to $5 for two years. Given his concussion and injury history, and there's no guarantee he will be healthy in the playoffs... I wouldn't go longer than 2 years.
That said, if he signs for under $5 million, Boston would find a way to just keep him. If he hits FA, he's getting Datsyuk money. The chances of Wings landing Horton for $5 million is very, very slim. He's getting paid.
The chances he comes to Detroit is very slim to none. Use that $5 million and pay Filppula, atleast he doesn't have concussion issues and we know what we're getting.
Henkka
Registered User
Nope. the real argument is that he is great fit for Red Wings. Right handed, big. Younger net-front prescense for older core.
For Blues or Kings, he is not so great fit. They have more righties and size, so somebody like Filppula with speed and left-handed guy is better fit for them.
Different teams have different needs. Horton matches perfectly with Wings need.
That's what I said.
Why is it an either or thing, have Franzen and Horton. Babs and Holland have both said why want to get bigger, younger and score more goals. I don't see the issue with potentially signing Horton at all. Additionally sometimes you have to "overpay" to fill a need. Who cares if we pay him 5.5 instead of 4.5, we pay hacks 2-3 mil every year anyway.
Henkka
Registered User
I think Horton's asking price will be that 5.5 million, that is his salary at this season. I don't think he deserves a raise, but he is worth that with a little overpayment.
PullHard
☂
- Jul 18, 2007
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We have 5-10 mil in cap space. I don't think the idea of adding Horton would be to replace anyone.
It is to make us competitive and deep.
Compare and contrast Horton and Franzen/whoever all day, but I don't think that would be the point of adding him to our team.
We get bigger (didn't say "more physical") and more talented.
How can anyone argue against THAT?
It is to make us competitive and deep.
Compare and contrast Horton and Franzen/whoever all day, but I don't think that would be the point of adding him to our team.
We get bigger (didn't say "more physical") and more talented.
How can anyone argue against THAT?
Dats Y
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- Jun 3, 2013
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That's what I said.
Why is it an either or thing, have Franzen and Horton. Babs and Holland have both said why want to get bigger, younger and score more goals. I don't see the issue with potentially signing Horton at all. Additionally sometimes you have to "overpay" to fill a need. Who cares if we pay him 5.5 instead of 4.5, we pay hacks 2-3 mil every year anyway.
Yes, let's justify overspending on hacks by overspending on unrestricted free agents too. Sounds like proper cap management and the fast track to success.
Horton as a right handed shot and a goal scorer makes sense, but what's the point of adding more size if the player's not going to be a consistent physical presence?
Henkka
Registered User
It makes this kind of effect in our net-front/cornerworker hierachy.
Our current hierarchy was:
1.Franzen
2.Bertuzzi
3.Abdelkader
4.Cleary
If we get Horton, the new hierarchy would be:
1. Horton > Franzen
2. Franzen > Bertuzzi
3. Bertuzzi > Abdelkader
4. Abdelkader > Cleary
So getting a player like Horton that is better than any current same role player in our team, we get a better player in every position.
Dats Y
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- Jun 3, 2013
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Horton's play in the corners and in front of the net leaves much to be desired. If you're not happy with Franzen, you won't be happy with Horton. Much like Penner, Horton always looks better than he actually is in the playoffs.
Henkka
Registered User
Yes, he would shine at the playoffs, when Datsyuk puts him to shine. Just like Krejci puts him to shine at Boston.
Dats Y
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- Jun 3, 2013
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That's fine. I agree that if we're buying Horton it's to be a goal scorer, not for any other reason such as physical, net or board play. Nothing wrong with investing money in a top line goal scorer like Horton, but there is only disappointment in setting the expectation for something he isn't.
Horton has great net and board play, the guy wins almost all his puck battles so I have no clue what you are talking about here.
Dats Y
Registered User
- Jun 3, 2013
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Since you're a fan of the team, I'll trust your opinion. Playoffs aside, I haven't seen the same player in my viewings.
Nothing wrong with investing money in a top line goal scorer like Horton, but there is only disappointment in setting the expectation for something he isn't'
well your disappointment will come in thinking that he is a top line goal scorer. He is extremely streaky and is not a top line scorer in that sense of the wording. He fits very well with Krejci and Lucic but the guy is a 25 goal scorer, hardly what I call a top line goal scorer. Your disappointment of his physical, net and board play won't come to fruition. Horton is a beauty in front of the net, on the boards and knows WHEN to play physical. He goes through lulls, but when he is on, he is very physical. Watch a game and stop stat watching with HITS.
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Dats Y
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- Jun 3, 2013
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I've seen enough Boston games to know he's a shell of his former self from a physicality standpoint. He was much more of a power forward in his earlier days with the Panthers.
Streaky scorer or not, he'd be a top line goal scorer on this team. Whether he's a true top line goal scorer across the league has nothing to do with this discussion and not what I was referring to.
DATS Y -
"Yes, let's justify overspending on hacks by overspending on unrestricted free agents too. Sounds like proper cap management and the fast track to success."
I will chop this up to the fact you are hungover and not thinking clearly today.
The point is if your going to "overpay" someone by 1 million overpay someone who is going to make a really positive impact on the team, not a Sammy, or a KFQ, or a 22, or heaven forbid Cleary next year.
"Yes, let's justify overspending on hacks by overspending on unrestricted free agents too. Sounds like proper cap management and the fast track to success."
I will chop this up to the fact you are hungover and not thinking clearly today.
The point is if your going to "overpay" someone by 1 million overpay someone who is going to make a really positive impact on the team, not a Sammy, or a KFQ, or a 22, or heaven forbid Cleary next year.
Dats Y
Registered User
- Jun 3, 2013
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- 0
DATS Y -
"Yes, let's justify overspending on hacks by overspending on unrestricted free agents too. Sounds like proper cap management and the fast track to success."
I will chop this up to the fact you are hungover and not thinking clearly today.
The point is if your going to "overpay" someone by 1 million overpay someone who is going to make a really positive impact on the team, not a Sammy, or a KFQ, or a 22, or heaven forbid Cleary next year.
I've been in and out of sleep all day, woke up for good like 2 hours ago and still have a pounding headache...I agree with your point, just that the reasoning shouldn't be "if we're already spending on hacks, then we might as well compensate by overspending on free agents". I'd prefer to pay market value (in cases it will be viewed as overpayment) on UFA's and not overspend on hacks (unfortunately it's unavoidable at this point).
Boomhower
Registered User
Horton should not be a target for the simple fact that his next concussion is very likely a career ender.
If you can get him for market value on a 1 or 2 year deal than you might take your chances, but Horton will be looking for a long termer
If you can get him for market value on a 1 or 2 year deal than you might take your chances, but Horton will be looking for a long termer
BinCookin
Registered User
Honestly, Franzen is better than Horton.
Stats 50-60 pt players (equal)
Franzen scores slightly more goals
Franzen is bigger, and plays bigger (he doesn't play that big, but neither does horton)
Franzen will be a cheaper cap hit per year.
Horton is younger
Here is my suggestion.
Don't choose BETWEEN them.
If we lose one to pick up the other, we are not improved.
If we just add horton to the roster, good, we are better.
(I say do not add him, if it is not a fair deal)
All the teams trying to drop salary for next season should make a better player available... wait to be surprised!!
Stats 50-60 pt players (equal)
Franzen scores slightly more goals
Franzen is bigger, and plays bigger (he doesn't play that big, but neither does horton)
Franzen will be a cheaper cap hit per year.
Horton is younger
Here is my suggestion.
Don't choose BETWEEN them.
If we lose one to pick up the other, we are not improved.
If we just add horton to the roster, good, we are better.
(I say do not add him, if it is not a fair deal)
All the teams trying to drop salary for next season should make a better player available... wait to be surprised!!
