What's our real problem?

[oilinblood]

Our real problem? We play pond hockey. Last time i checked, this wasnt shinny pick-up its the NHL.

 

[NewBoysClub97*]

To me it is two problems.

My biggest issue is just development. It's already been said, but a lot of our players should have been sheltered longer with good vets that they could learn from.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg learned from Yzerman and Co. Now Detroits younger players are learning from Datsyuk.

We had Hemsky and Horcoff lol. You don't learn much from those guys. We have thrown our rookies into the fire.

That is managements fault.

Coaching changes I blame as well. How can you get in a groove and learn systems when they change every year?
--------------------------------------------------

Besides all of this, it still does not take blame away from the players. They have shown pathetic efforts and repeat the same mistakes over and over and over again.

It would help if the forwards came back to help the D more as well.

There is still onus on the players. Act like you give a damn. Try to forecheck, try to hit, try to hustle....

 

[thinlizzy]

This article makes me a little pissed.

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/11/04/two-reasons-not-to-give-up-hope-for-the-edmonton-oilers/

 

[tiger_80]

Every imaginable problem in professional hockey applies to this team.

1. Horrible management that has no concept of building a successful team and repeatedly ignores glaring holes.
2. bad drafting/development over the years
3. horrid professional scouting.
4. coaching carousel.
5. entitled players.

 

[AJGass4]

The above plus no one wants to play here, according to most.

I guess we should be happy we have a team? I don't know what the answers are anymore and there is so much wrong I'm not sure where to start.

After 2006:

Pronger held us hostage.

Peca didn't feel the need to compete for a cup after getting within one *** goal of winning it.

Lowe traded away or didn't resign the guts of this team, Stoll and Torres and then paid Pisani too much but he was at least man enough to stick around.

We kept Horcoff and Hemmer way too long. Either that or no one thought they were any good.

So many things point back to Lowe that I think I'll just blame him.

Plus getting coaches that scream "We will be hard to play against, we will be competitive." Blah, Blah, Blah.

It's either the guys won't or simply aren't capable of competing.

JUST A *** SAD STATE BOTH FRANCHISES ARE IN RIGHT NOW.

 

[Draiskull]

Our real problem? We play pond hockey. Last time i checked, this wasnt shinny pick-up its the NHL.

+1

IMO this is the real problem.. We have the flash and dash that would have worked in the 80's but we are far from a team that can play solid 60 mins..
Guys like Hall, Ebs, Yak, Hemsky and even Nuge and Perron play for the fancy 1 on 1 dipsy doodle.. There is no structure in this team..

If Hemsky is the best complete forward we have according to Eakins then there shouldnt be a surprise why we are sucking.

 

[AJGass4]

I call it a disorganized mess. That's what I see.

I can't help but think that has something to do with coaching.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

+1

IMO this is the real problem.. We have the flash and dash that would have worked in the 80's but we are far from a team that can play solid 60 mins..
Guys like Hall, Ebs, Yak, Hemsky and even Nuge and Perron play for the fancy 1 on 1 dipsy doodle.. There is no structure in this team..

If Hemsky is the best complete forward we have according to Eakins then there shouldnt be a surprise why we are sucking.

I was just talking about this and I'm not sure if it's coaching or the playing style or the defense is just that much better covering these guys....

have they gotten worse offensively? are they trying to do things differently than last year? It seems like they had much more space last year and either the defense just adapted or they are trying to play a system that somehow requires them to suck it in the offensive zone.

 

[Draiskull]

I was just talking about this and I'm not sure if it's coaching or the playing style or the defense is just that much better covering these guys....

have they gotten worse offensively? are they trying to do things differently than last year? It seems like they had much more space last year and either the defense just adapted or they are trying to play a system that somehow requires them to suck it in the offensive zone.

I know RNH had a great rookie season but he should not be the #1C on this team.
Same goes for Eberle and Yak.. They put up numbers but should be sheltered behind vets. Petry as #1D is a joke.. This team has serious issues.

 

[Zoombie]

To me it just looks like a lack of a team game (+effort). Oil have too many players who are used to being able to win with an individual effort, but that doesn't work against NHL systems and defense.

 

[Gone]

Every imaginable problem in professional hockey applies to this team.

1. Horrible management that has no concept of building a successful team and repeatedly ignores glaring holes.
2. bad drafting/development over the years
3. horrid professional scouting.
4. coaching carousel.
5. entitled players.

This is kinda of hitting the nail on the head.

 

[HackandLube]

To me it just looks like a lack of a team game (+effort). Oil have too many players who are used to being able to win with an individual effort, but that doesn't work against NHL systems and defense.

This. Successful NHL teams are greater than the sum of their parts and the Oilers are made up of a bunch of random parts that just don't add up.

The Flames have a guy like all the Oilers big draft picks. Sven Baertschi. Here's a skill-based guy with 94 points in 47 games in the juniors and was used to taking over a game with individual effort.

He hits the NHL and the production disappears because reportedly he was pouting and then Brian Burke calls him out for not being a complete, compete player in all three zones. He has to learn to the play in the system and while his skill still shows in flashes, he's still trying to figure it out.

Fortunately for the Flames, it's just that one guy that's figuring it out and they are mentoring him with classic Red Wing school guy (Jiri Hudler) on his line. I think the Oilers have 5 or 6 guys with that problem with nobody to mentor them properly.

The Oilers old boys management team rebuilt without the proper mentorship built into the team. Crosby broke into the league by living with Mario Lemiuex!

 

[Crabapple]

We've got no guys who know how to be successful in the NHL. Outside of Andrew Ference, we've got kids who try to coast on their skill, and fringe nhl players. Relying on kids aged 19-23 has failed.

Look at Mark Arcobello, his time in the AHL has taught him what it takes to be a successful pro, even if he doesn't have the skill of our other guys.

 

[StoveTopStauffer]

Lack of quality veteran leadership guiding the kids through the years. One big difference between Chicago, Pitts etc versus Us is the veteran quality. We have almost none here.

 

[Neuron]

Gamechangers

Does anyone believe the team is just missing possibly one player that would be the glue that keeps the team on a winning path throughout the season. Or will this definatly need a multi-player shake up to right the ship?

 

[Comrade Blunderbore]

unless you are thinking Crosby or Malkin, the answer is a fairly easy no.

and even if we were getting Malkin (which is a pretty fat chance) that would be part of a huge multi-player shake up as well.

 

[Bank Shot]

Fortunately for the Flames, it's just that one guy that's figuring it out and they are mentoring him with classic Red Wing school guy (Jiri Hudler) on his line. I think the Oilers have 5 or 6 guys with that problem with nobody to mentor them properly.

The Oilers old boys management team rebuilt without the proper mentorship built into the team. Crosby broke into the league by living with Mario Lemiuex!

If Jiri Hudler is your mentor, you're doing it wrong.

That's not any better then having guys like Hemsky or Perron or Gagner around.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

If Jiri Hudler is your mentor, you're doing it wrong.

That's not any better then having guys like Hemsky or Perron or Gagner around.

True but they have heart and soul guys like Giordano, Glencross, etc. IMO the work ethic and not taking things for granted part is something that this team hasn't had until Ference.

 

[Shanahanigans]

If Eberle was on a team like San Jose, he'd be an elite player. Put Couture on the Oilers, and he'd struggle big time.
Put Schultz on the Preds, he'd look amazing. Put Jones in Edmonton, he busts quicker than Bosingore.

Why these random scenarios? Every single team in the league develops players by SHELTERING THEM. Eberle did amazing in his sophmore season because he was sheltered. I believe Eberle is a complimentary player who doesn't need to be sheltered anymore, but only when playing with our only elite player in Hall.

RNH has ridiculous potential. Anyone who watches this team can see. This guy is 20 years old. He was a teenager 6 months ago. He didn't step onto the ice for 6 months while recovering from shoulder surgery. He's 175lb. Yet he gets matched against Datsyuk, Crosby, Thornton, etc. because we have nobody else who can do it.

Justin Schultz was thrown into our top pairing last year. He struggled defensively. New season, new coach, new system. 60 games into his NHL career. He has no idea what the heck he is doing out there anymore.

On the Hawks in 2010, Toews was 22 and Kane was 21. You know which veterans they had on the team to learn from and protect them and teach them a team game? Hossa, Sharp, Bolland, Byfuglien, Ladd, Carcillo, Keith, Seabrook, Brouwer, Burish, Campbell, Kopecy, John Madden, Verseteeg. All these players were at least 24 during that cup run. Think they didn't help Toews and Kane turn into superstars? You think that if we had a 22 year old Toews, and a 21 year old Kane, that we wouldn't be as bad as we are now? You think our current roster could give those guys anything to work with? Kane had Hossa on his line. RNH has Ryan Freaking Jones.

On the Penguins in 2009, these are the vets they had that were over 25 and helped Sid, Malkin and Letang become superstars: Talbot, Sykora, Satan, Kunitz, Guerin, Gonchar, Cooke, Adams, Fedetenko, Dupuis, Gill, Orpik, Scuderi.

Other than Orpik and Talbot, every single one of those guys was acquired AFTER Sid was drafted in 2005.

The Oilers have 3 players who fit the mold of veterans who can help teach the young players to play a pro game: Smid, Gordon, and Ference. 3rd line centre, a #4 dman, and a #5 Dman.

We haven't developed these players probably. We can be thankful that Taylor Hall was talented enough to turn out like he did. I just hope we don't screw up the development of RNH, Yak, and J Schultz.

If Yak is struggling, who is he getting tips from. Smyth? Eager? (P.S.- RNH said in the paper that he has been giving tips and advice to Yak and J Schultz so that they can get out of their Sophmore slumps. 20 year old Nuge.) Great job management. Great freaking job.

 

[T-Funk]

True but they have heart and soul guys like Giordano, Glencross, etc. IMO the work ethic and not taking things for granted part is something that this team hasn't had until Ference.

I have yet to see Ference say or do anything that has actually made a difference. Complaining about work ethic and attitudes in the locker room is a lot different than actually fixing work ethic and attitudes in the locker room.

 

[Raab]

I have yet to see Ference say or do anything that has actually made a difference. Complaining about work ethic and attitudes in the locker room is a lot different than actually fixing work ethic and attitudes in the locker room.

Im not really sure what you expect him to show you? Until we have 23 guys who want to come to the rink and battle every night this team is doomed to fail. Right now I can count on 1 hand how may guys come to compete for the Oilers on any given night. It's one of the reasons I feel we should trade on of the kids in Yak or Eberle(who I have been against trading for a long time).

 

[Soundwave]

They don't need leaders that will give speeches and show them how to "play".

We were sold that line when Smyth was brought back and again when Ference was signed.

They need guys who will actually get the puck in battles for them. Guys who hit to hurt. Guys who do the dirty work on the boards.

That's what this team is missing. A whole lot of nastiness, puck retrieval, and board beasts.

You could immediately see what Joensuu and Pitlick brought to the lineup was like a jolt of lightning. We need more of those jolts, it's horrible luck that both got injured so quickly.

The core IMO can work, but first off, Hemsky and Gagner are the redundant pieces. They need to be replaced with guys who do the above.

Speeches and all that IMO are overrated. Colorado's kids are carrying them. The head coach is the one who needs the fill that role, the kids need help on the freaking ice, not in the locker room. A speech isn't going to help when RNH and Yakupov are getting blasted into the boards trying to fish out a puck.

Remember the last time we almost made the playoffs? Gagner-Nilsson-Cogliano did great, but that team also had rough characters and more sandpaper than this squad does. You have to dish out punishment, if you are a skilled team but you invite other teams to push you around physically, eventually it leads to a destruction of morale within the locker room.

 

[AJGass4]

I disagree with the Glencross thing. Half the time people in Calgary are lipping him off because he's useless.

But we don't have anyone that can turn the game around with a big hit or a goalie that can give us that one save that changes the game.

We just don't have the right people on the ice. I agree with Soundwave about Pitlick and JJ though. How can we suffer so many brutal injuries all at once.

I swear, this team is cursed.

 

[bucks_oil]

If Eberle was on a team like San Jose, he'd be an elite player. Put Couture on the Oilers, and he'd struggle big time.
Put Schultz on the Preds, he'd look amazing. Put Jones in Edmonton, he busts quicker than Bosingore.

Why these random scenarios? Every single team in the league develops players by SHELTERING THEM. Eberle did amazing in his sophmore season because he was sheltered. I believe Eberle is a complimentary player who doesn't need to be sheltered anymore, but only when playing with our only elite player in Hall.

RNH has ridiculous potential. Anyone who watches this team can see. This guy is 20 years old. He was a teenager 6 months ago. He didn't step onto the ice for 6 months while recovering from shoulder surgery. He's 175lb. Yet he gets matched against Datsyuk, Crosby, Thornton, etc. because we have nobody else who can do it.

Justin Schultz was thrown into our top pairing last year. He struggled defensively. New season, new coach, new system. 60 games into his NHL career. He has no idea what the heck he is doing out there anymore.

On the Hawks in 2010, Toews was 22 and Kane was 21. You know which veterans they had on the team to learn from and protect them and teach them a team game? Hossa, Sharp, Bolland, Byfuglien, Ladd, Carcillo, Keith, Seabrook, Brouwer, Burish, Campbell, Kopecy, John Madden, Verseteeg. All these players were at least 24 during that cup run. Think they didn't help Toews and Kane turn into superstars? You think that if we had a 22 year old Toews, and a 21 year old Kane, that we wouldn't be as bad as we are now? You think our current roster could give those guys anything to work with? Kane had Hossa on his line. RNH has Ryan Freaking Jones.

On the Penguins in 2009, these are the vets they had that were over 25 and helped Sid, Malkin and Letang become superstars: Talbot, Sykora, Satan, Kunitz, Guerin, Gonchar, Cooke, Adams, Fedetenko, Dupuis, Gill, Orpik, Scuderi.

Other than Orpik and Talbot, every single one of those guys was acquired AFTER Sid was drafted in 2005.

The Oilers have 3 players who fit the mold of veterans who can help teach the young players to play a pro game: Smid, Gordon, and Ference. 3rd line centre, a #4 dman, and a #5 Dman.

We haven't developed these players probably. We can be thankful that Taylor Hall was talented enough to turn out like he did. I just hope we don't screw up the development of RNH, Yak, and J Schultz.

If Yak is struggling, who is he getting tips from. Smyth? Eager? (P.S.- RNH said in the paper that he has been giving tips and advice to Yak and J Schultz so that they can get out of their Sophmore slumps. 20 year old Nuge.) Great job management. Great freaking job.

Exactly!

A few more additions: from the day Kane and Crosby set out on the ice their mgmt surrounded them with other vets who had already moved on by the time they were ready for the cup. Nevertheless these guys also helped shoulder the burden while they developed. Guys like Llemieux and Recchi in Pits and Khabi (who had just finished winning a cup in TB) come to mind.

These guys did exactly what they were supposed to.... Kept those impressionable kids from falling into a crisis of confidence.

And that's what's happened here. No amount of popcorn munching shots will convince me that our guys aren't trying hard enough... The problem is they've forgotten (or have yet to learn/introspect) how good teams bail each other out after an inevitable mistake. They are trying so hard not to be the guy to let the team down that they are doing exactly that. Did you see RNH after the Datsyuk goal? COMPLETE FRUSTRATION. Guesss what kid, you just got schooled by a hall of famer.

Guys like Gordon and Ference are the right steps, but it doesn't work if guys like Khabi and Horc are on the way out.... Granted Khabi and Horc may not be the best vets out there, but we needed a net ADD of vets, not neutrality in that department. The fact that we filled out our role players with Belovs and Joensuu's only perpetuates the problem. All of these guys are now learning what it takes to lose in the NHL.

We need to get healthy AND we need to have at least 1 probably 2 quantity for quality trades to upgrade our starting lineup... And that's just to salvage this season from inflicting permanent damage. Next summer we need to do it all over again.

 

[Ukgoalie]

Anyone else think that j shultz's long term future (if not traded) is as a 2nd/3rd line winger ? He basically plays like it anyway.