Tribute What would your all time Wild team look like?

[Notabaguette]

What would your all time Wild team look like?
Parise Koivu Gaborik
Zucker Staal Havlat
Bouchard Granlund Brunette
Heatley Demitra Vanek

Suter Burns
Spurgeon Dumba
Zidlicky Kuba

Backstrom
Dubnyk

Click to read more...

 

[SupremeNachos]

What would your all time Wild team look like?
Parise Koivu Gaborik
Zucker Staal Havlat
Bouchard Granlund Brunette
Heatley Demitra Vanek

Suter Burns
Spurgeon Dumba
Zidlicky Kuba

Backstrom
Dubnyk

Is everyone in their prime?

 

[Notabaguette]

Is everyone in their prime?

Yes am I missing anyone?

 

[57special]

I'd certainly have Brodin in there, and even though Rolston didn't play with MN long, he sure could put the puck in the net. I thought Havlat was a POS when he was here, myself, and they bought Vanek out he was so bad.

 

[SupremeNachos]

Yes am I missing anyone?

Heatley Staal Gaborik Pure offense
Parise Demitra Rolston Elite Grit
Granlund Koivu Vanek Two Way with Snipes
Zucker Haula Fiala Can't Catch Us

Suter Burns
Brodin Spurgeon
Scandella Dumba

Dubnyk
Harding

Our wingers would be amazing but our C depth compared to other teams the past two decades would still be in the bottom half.

 

[BigT2002]

Man, that is a good question:

Parise - Koivu - Bouchard
Gaborik - Demitra - Zucker
Brunette - Staal - Coyle
Clutterbuck - Cullen - Nino

Suter - Spurgeon
Zidlicky - Burns
Dumb - Schultz

Backstrom
Dubnyk

 

[Hall of Faber]

Kim Johnsson gets severely forgotten about. No way Scandella is a top 3 LHD in franchise history. Probably not even in the top 10.

 

[a79krgm]

Any team

Must not include Havlat
Must always include Rolston

 

[CapsFan819]

Gaborik would be a must:

 

[Wasted Talent]

Assuming they're rated based on their peak while on the Wild team rather than all time peak, Pominville's 30g-30a season has to better than anything Heatley and Vanek did for us.

 

[BagHead]

Assuming their play is equivalent to their best play the the Wild and not another franchise.

Parise- Koivu- Gaborik
Rolston - Staal - Granlund
Brunette - Demitra - Pominville
Zucker - Walz - Fiala/PMB (small sample of being on fire vs. career numbers)

Suter - Spurgeon
Johnsson - Dumba
Brodin - Burns
Then I'd put Zidlicky or Schultz as the 7th.

Dubnyk
Backstrom

I already knew it logically, but in doing this I was reminded of just how terrible our center depth has always been, and how many goalies we've had that have over-performed while with our team. I really hate when people say goalies are system goalies... but in this case they may be right. I mean, I almost had to list Manny Fernandez.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Parise-Demitra-Gaborik
Zucker-Staal-Bouchard
Nino-Koivu-Granlund
Clutterbuck-Walz-Coyle

Suter-Burns
Brodin-Spurgeon
Schultz-Dumba

Backstrom
Dubnyk

 

[Jbcraig1883]

This is based on their age/play with Wild.

Fiala - Demitra - Gaborik
Parise -Staal - Rolston
Brunette - Koivu - Granlund
Zucker - Walz - Clutterbuck

Suter - Burns
Brodin - Spurgeon
Johnsson - Dumba

Dubnyk
Fernandez

Almost put Matt Cooke on 4th line just because that line would piss off everyone, but Zucker has more to offer.

 

[TaLoN]

I find it completely odd that some lists have Bouchard on the team... and those same lists have Rolston absent. Completely backwards IMO. Rolston was the meat and potatoes of that line, Bouchard hung on Rolston's coattails.

THREE consecutive 30+ goal seasons from Rolston... we don't have a long list of players who've accomplished that!

 

[2Pair]

Rolston was the better player but Bouchard wasn't riding coattails. The kid was the best puck handler/passer this team has ever had.

 

[BagHead]

I find it completely odd that some lists have Bouchard on the team... and those same lists have Rolston absent. Completely backwards IMO. Rolston was the meat and potatoes of that line, Bouchard hung on Rolston's coattails.

THREE consecutive 30+ goal seasons from Rolston... we don't have a long list of players who've accomplished that!

Do we have ANY other players who have accomplished that?

Looking it up, it appears Gaborik did it once, as well, though one of those 30 goal seasons was actually a 40 goal season. That's all I can find. Pretty exclusive company.

Rolston was the better player but Bouchard wasn't riding coattails. The kid was the best puck handler/passer this team has ever had.

He definitely had the tools to be. The problem with Butch was that he lacked the willingness to go anywhere but the perimeter 90% of the time. He'd enter the zone, stop, and spin like a top until someone got open for him. I used to make jokes about it because I'd get so exasperated by his doing it. It really limited his effectiveness to the point that I can't agree that he was the best passer this team has ever had. It's one thing to be able to be the best passer, and another to actually be the best passer. I agree with the idea that he wasn't riding Rolston's coat tails, though. They both complimented each other extremely well. Neither had as much success once they were broken up.

 

[nickschultzfan]

I find it completely odd that some lists have Bouchard on the team... and those same lists have Rolston absent. Completely backwards IMO. Rolston was the meat and potatoes of that line, Bouchard hung on Rolston's coattails.

THREE consecutive 30+ goal seasons from Rolston... we don't have a long list of players who've accomplished that!

Rolston had the benefit of playing on a team where nobody cared if he walked across the blueline and tried to shoot it through a goalie's chest like a PeeWee.

Bouchard had the problem of being perimeter player that then got concussions which made him even worse and more worried in his play.

 

[TaLoN]

Rolston was the better player but Bouchard wasn't riding coattails. The kid was the best puck handler/passer this team has ever had.

I agree he was a great puck handler, but he was also terrified of leaving the perimeter, which is why he ended up riding coattails. He was a 2nd assist master.

Look at one of the next best puck handlers we've had in Granlund... he was a first assist machine when he was at his best. That's NOT riding coattails.

 

[2Pair]

I agree he was a great puck handler, but he was also terrified of leaving the perimeter, which is why he ended up riding coattails. He was a 2nd assist master.

Look at one of the next best puck handlers we've had in Granlund... he was a first assist machine when he was at his best. That's NOT riding coattails.

Granlunds three best seasons with the Wild
31 1st assists in 1,524 minutes
26 1st assists in 1,446 minutes
25 1st assists in 1,485 minutes

Bouchards three best seasons with the Wild
30 1st assists in 1,364 minutes
23 1st assists in 1,311 minutes
20 1st assists in 1,220 minutes

One guy was "a first assist machine" and the other was "a 2nd assist master riding coattails"? That's pure nonsense.

 

[TaLoN]

Granlunds three best seasons with the Wild
31 1st assists in 1,524 minutes
26 1st assists in 1,446 minutes
25 1st assists in 1,485 minutes

Bouchards three best seasons with the Wild
30 1st assists in 1,364 minutes
23 1st assists in 1,311 minutes
20 1st assists in 1,220 minutes

One guy was "a first assist machine" and the other was "a 2nd assist master riding coattails"? That's pure nonsense.

Link? I'm having a hard time getting the stats... corsica hockey's site isn't working right now. I recall this discussion having come up before and corsica had Bouchard with significantly less primary assists than you're listing.

Went through Hockey reference... for their 3 best assist seasons each.

Bouchard 50 assists in 2007-08 - 30 primary assists, 18 secondary 60% primary
Bouchard 42 assists in 2005-06 - 20 primary assists, 22 secondary 48% primary
Bouchard 37 assists in 2006-07 - 23 primary assists, 14 secondary 62% primary

Granlund 46 assists 2017-18 - 26 primary assists, 20 secondary 56% primary
Granlund 43 assists 2016-17 - 30 primary assists, 13 secondary 70% primary
Granlund 38 assists in 2018-19 - 27 primary assists, 11 secondary 71% primary

Nearly a 10% increase for Granlund over Bouchard avg of the 3 highest assist seasons for both.

Hell, I'll throw in the 4th best season for each...

Bouchard 30 assists in 2008-09 - 15 primary assists, 15 secondary 50% primary
Granlund 31 assists in 2015-16 - 25 primary assists, 6 secondary 81% primary

Avg percentage of primary vs secondary for each in their 4 best seasons each?

Bouchard 55%
Granlund 70%

That's the difference between a perimeter player and a player who attacks the high percentage areas.

 

[P10p]

Link? I'm having a hard time getting the stats... corsica hockey's site isn't working right now. I recall this discussion having come up before and corsica had Bouchard with significantly less primary assists than you're listing.

Went through Hockey reference... for their 3 best assist seasons each.

Bouchard 50 assists in 2007-08 - 30 primary assists, 18 secondary 60% primary
Bouchard 42 assists in 2005-06 - 20 primary assists, 22 secondary 48% primary
Bouchard 37 assists in 2006-07 - 23 primary assists, 14 secondary 62% primary

Granlund 46 assists 2017-18 - 26 primary assists, 20 secondary 56% primary
Granlund 43 assists 2016-17 - 30 primary assists, 13 secondary 70% primary
Granlund 38 assists in 2018-19 - 27 primary assists, 11 secondary 71% primary

Nearly a 10% increase for Granlund over Bouchard avg of the 3 highest assist seasons for both.

Hell, I'll throw in the 4th best season for each...

Bouchard 30 assists in 2008-09 - 15 primary assists, 15 secondary 50% primary
Granlund 31 assists in 2015-16 - 25 primary assists, 6 secondary 81% primary

Avg percentage of primary vs secondary for each in their 4 best seasons each?

Bouchard 55%
Granlund 70%

That's the difference between a perimeter player and a player who attacks the high percentage areas.

Great analysis, but we also must consider other variables as well. PMB played for Jaques Lemaire on an extremely tight defensive squad.

 

[TaLoN]

Great analysis, but we also must consider other variables as well. PMB played for Jaques Lemaire on an extremely tight defensive squad.

PMB played on a more defensive team, but was a much worse defensive player and thus had much lower defensive responsibilities.

 

[2Pair]

Link? I'm having a hard time getting the stats... corsica hockey's site isn't working right now. I recall this discussion having come up before and corsica had Bouchard with significantly less primary assists than you're listing.

Went through Hockey reference... for their 3 best assist seasons each.

Bouchard 50 assists in 2007-08 - 30 primary assists, 18 secondary 60% primary
Bouchard 42 assists in 2005-06 - 20 primary assists, 22 secondary 48% primary
Bouchard 37 assists in 2006-07 - 23 primary assists, 14 secondary 62% primary

Granlund 46 assists 2017-18 - 26 primary assists, 20 secondary 56% primary
Granlund 43 assists 2016-17 - 30 primary assists, 13 secondary 70% primary
Granlund 38 assists in 2018-19 - 27 primary assists, 11 secondary 71% primary

Nearly a 10% increase for Granlund over Bouchard avg of the 3 highest assist seasons for both.

Hell, I'll throw in the 4th best season for each...

Bouchard 30 assists in 2008-09 - 15 primary assists, 15 secondary 50% primary
Granlund 31 assists in 2015-16 - 25 primary assists, 6 secondary 81% primary

Avg percentage of primary vs secondary for each in their 4 best seasons each?

Bouchard 55%
Granlund 70%

That's the difference between a perimeter player and a player who attacks the high percentage areas.

So, about 3 primary assists per season is the difference between being a coattails riding 2nd assist Master, and being a 1st assist machine? You can spin it any way you like, your analysis is still dead wrong.

Edit- I also notice that you completely skip over the fact that Granlund was playing about 200 more minutes per season to get those extra 3 assists. What a machine he truly was

 

[P10p]

So, about 3 primary assists per season is the difference between being a coattails riding 2nd assist Master, and being a 1st assist machine? You can spin it any way you like, your analysis is still dead wrong.

Edit- I also notice that you completely skip over the fact that Granlund was playing about 200 more minutes per season to get those extra 3 assists. What a machine he truly was

This is very true regarding both the difference and TOI. This is the problem with %, it can seem like a huge difference on small samples and has to be applied correctly.

Regarding the defensive team argument, I still think the modern Wild afforded Granlund many more opportunities that PMB wasn't.

 

[TaLoN]

So, about 3 primary assists per season is the difference between being a coattails riding 2nd assist Master, and being a 1st assist machine? You can spin it any way you like, your analysis is still dead wrong.

Edit- I also notice that you completely skip over the fact that Granlund was playing about 200 more minutes per season to get those extra 3 assists. What a machine he truly was

Yet the difference was also as great as 10 of them... TWICE.

Also, pretty sure the 200 minutes can be explained by the fact the Granlund spent time regularly on the PK, something PMB didn't do.