Speculation: What would you give up for Brayden Schenn?

[UnleashRasmus]

Ristolainen would be the start of the conversation I can only guess since they were high on him in the draft.

 

[Chainshot]

Guys, this isn't about Hodgson. Or Roy. It's about Schenn and what it would take to acquire him or if someone is in favor of attempting to acquiring him.

 

[Havok89]

I don't really want to part with any of our young defenseman right now, and that is what it would take. Myers, Pysyk, Zadorov, Risto, McNabb, McCabe, and Ehrhoff is a solid group with big potential.

We have good leadership, grit, and "glue" players in the form of Girgensons, Foligno, Larsson, Catenacci, Flynn and Tropp.

Our high-end offensive talent is ovbiously where we lack. Hodgson, Ennis, Armia and Grigorenko are not good enough by any means.

I'd rather wait until after the 2014 draft to make a move for a player like Schenn or Ryan O'Rielly to see where we stand.

 

[Jim Bob]

For me, the Sabres need a center that will push CoHo to the second line.

I don't see Schenn as that guy.

I would pass.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

I would definitely "consider" it... Which is what I was asked.

I'm also not on the "Pysyk's future is settled"... Good luck with that though

Why would I consider it? I think a Tallinder for Sharp "future" comparison is more apt...
(Tallinder was great in his prime)

Tallinder is a meh comparison for Pysyk. Pysyk is a significantly better skater, while Hank is bigger, and uses his size far more effectively, especially in his prime, pre-separated shoulder. While "#3 shutdown guy" is an accurate description of the kid's realistic potential, I think he's got a bit more latent offensive ability than Tallinder because of his wheels. I keep comparing him to the 30 point model of Duncan Keith (both are even 6'1" ~200), a far rangier shutdown guy who some people don't like because of his smaller stature for a guy going against top lines (there are a few hysterical descriptions of Keith between 07-09 from Hawks fans who thought he was too small/turnover prone).

I also think JJ's insinuations about his game are off base. He'll be a ~30 point guy once the team actually puts together a forward corps, and he's stuck playing shutdown minutes in his second pro year. He consistently got stronger and more physical when he was in juniors, and he's still got a ways to grow into his body.

I don't trade shutdown players for guys who I'm not sure will be top six forwards.

 

[kenfury]

Guys, this isn't about Hodgson. Or Roy. It's about Schenn and what it would take to acquire him or if someone is in favor of attempting to acquiring him.

I have not read the whole thread so you may be talking about something specific that I missed. I would argue that part of the thought process in acquiring Schenn is team need and where he slots. Team needs dont exist in a vacuum.

Right now I see no value in Schenn, He probably is not going to be an elite #1 C. CoHo looks like he can slot in to #2 C when/if we draft McDavid or Reinheart. #3 C probably will go to Girgs or Larrson depending on how they develop. This team needs top line scoring wingers and probably a goalie in the pipeline as I am still not sold on Hacket/Enroth being the answer. Schenn is neither of those.

 

[Djp]

I would trade Pysyk for Schenn.

l dont view Schenn as a missing piece here. I would group him with Hodgson and Ennis in terms of not being the #1 Center and #1 winger the team needs,

I dont see Pysyk as being part of the top 4 Dmen---this isnt a slap at his ability or skill---I see Ehrhoff, Myers, Zadorov, and Ristolainen ans the top 4 based on current roster.

It would be smart for Buffalo to move Pysyk to add a piece elsewhere on the team.

If we were going to shop Pysyk for a winger I would first look at other talent out there in Toffoli or Saad type of players that have a more certain top 6 potential. Schenn has that chance of not being top 6.

 

[Ralonzo]

Fair enough

I don't see Schenn as a savior or anything. I see him as something we don't have much of right now. A top 6 offensive talent. That he can play center is a bonus. Trading Pysyk for him is swapping an organizational strength for a weakness.

I do like Pysyk by and large. He's no Greg Brown.

Back in the heady days of Drury/Briere/Roy, pretty much all the centers were considered a 2C. If Schenn could become that it's a fair deal. I'm not yet convinced he can become, say, a Shawn Horcoff. And if that's what one thinks, then one doesn't do Pysyk-for-Schenn. If you do, then you do it.

 

[joshjull]

Tallinder is a meh comparison for Pysyk. Pysyk is a significantly better skater, while Hank is bigger, and uses his size far more effectively, especially in his prime, pre-separated shoulder. While "#3 shutdown guy" is an accurate description of the kid's realistic potential, I think he's got a bit more latent offensive ability than Tallinder because of his wheels. I keep comparing him to the 30 point model of Duncan Keith (both are even 6'1" ~200), a far rangier shutdown guy who some people don't like because of his smaller stature for a guy going against top lines (there are a few hysterical descriptions of Keith between 07-09 from Hawks fans who thought he was too small/turnover prone).

I also think JJ's insinuations about his game are off base. He'll be a ~30 point guy once the team actually puts together a forward corps, and he's stuck playing shutdown minutes in his second pro year. He consistently got stronger and more physical when he was in juniors, and he's still got a ways to grow into his body.

Off base in what way? He himself admitted part of the reason he is sitting is because of how easily bigger players pushed him off the puck. He talked about needing to work harder to protect the puck. I agree getting stronger will help but he isn't someone with a tall lanky frame that needs filling out. He is 6'1" 190lbs. I'm not sure how much bigger and stronger you can expect him to get. Getting bigger and stronger in juniors really isn't a comparable situation. He got bigger and stronger in juniors as a 19 and 20 year old playing against mostly teenagers. Much of that was simply getting older and growing into his body while his opponents were younger. No such dynamic will exist in the NHL.

And I don't see the offensive instincts needed to be a big contributor offensively. I agree with a better forward core and overall team he should be able to get decent offensive numbers. But as a support player not the driving force.

Keep in mind my posts were in response to a poster that feels Pysyk will be a minute eating do everything #2 dman. I don't see it for the reasons I've stated. But I certainly see him as a top 4 dman in this league.
But on defense we have Ehrhoff, Myers, Pysyk, Risto, Zads, McNabb and McCabe in the system. Its a position of depth that could be used to land help up front.

I don't trade shutdown players for guys who I'm not sure will be top six forwards.

Pysyk is no more of a proven commodity as a shutdown dman than Schenn is a top 6 forward. Lets not pretend otherwise.

 

[joshjull]

I have not read the whole thread so you may be talking about something specific that I missed. I would argue that part of the thought process in acquiring Schenn is team need and where he slots. Team needs dont exist in a vacuum.

Right now I see no value in Schenn, He probably is not going to be an elite #1 C. CoHo looks like he can slot in to #2 C when/if we draft McDavid or Reinheart. #3 C probably will go to Girgs or Larrson depending on how they develop.

I can't even begin to understand the craziness of not trading for a player based on your argument. That argument being that there is no need for Schenn at all based a lineup that has prospects not established in the league yet as well as players we haven't even drafted yet all projected in to specific spots in the lineup. Thus creating a situation where we have no holes needed to be filled.

This team needs top line scoring wingers and probably a goalie in the pipeline as I am still not sold on Hacket/Enroth being the answer. Schenn is neither of those.

Schenn can play wing as well as center. In fact during the same playoffs everyone was rightfully praising Couturier's play. Schenn was having a very productive time on the wing (11gms 3g 6a 9pts). Thats not too shabby for a 20 year old.


The fact that you see no value in Schenn is just bizarre to me.

 

[Ness]

I'd throw in Miller+ in a trade for Schenn.

 

[Psuhockey]

Flyers fans here. B. Schenn plays a lot like JVR when he was here on the flyers IMO. He shows flashes of top line skill but can also disappear for sometime. He is getting some of the lowest minutes of any top 9 forward, much like JVR did, yet is still producing. He could be another JVR where his production will explode as his minutes increase which won't really happen on the Flyers. I think buffalo and the Flyers could make great trading partners because of Buffalo's depth in young blue liners. I think Pysyk for Schenn is a good deal for both teams, although since you are still essentially paying for potential with both guys, buffalo would have to add a little as Schenn's potential is higher.

 

[HockeyH3aven]

Girgensons' future in this organization is on the wing.
Larsson projects to be a shutdown center.

Hodgson and Grigorenko lean more towards the offensive side of things.

I'm looking for an All-situations center of the Kesler, Backes, Bergeron mold. The No. 1 line offensive talent can be acquired at the top of the draft.

Dude has played ~20 games in the NHL.

Hfboards Sabres fans:

1) We need elite center depth like LA or PIT

2) Sabres draft centers

3) Yeeeeessss!!

4) Fifteen games into their NHL career: HE'S A WINGER!!!!

5) Offseason: WE NEED MORE CENTERS

It's really simple. You take the best four players you have that play Center, and you play them. This labelling of "well you see the third line guy can't be too good at offense, but he needs to be okay but he needs to hit a lot" and "the second line guy should be the guy that isn't good at defense and might be small but still scores" and "the first line guy is Crosby" is just silly extraploation where we look at a succesful team and assume that they are adhereing to some sort of rigid model or system, instead of putting the best 18 skaters that have on the ice and giving the best players the most ice-time.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Off base in what way? He himself admitted part of the reason he is sitting is because of how easily bigger players pushed him off the puck. He talked about needing to work harder to protect the puck. I agree getting stronger will help but he isn't someone with a tall lanky frame that needs filling out. He is 6'1" 190lbs. I'm not sure how much bigger and stronger you can expect him to get. Getting bigger and stronger in juniors really isn't a comparable situation. He got bigger and stronger in juniors as a 19 and 20 year old playing against mostly teenagers. Much of that was simply getting older and growing into his body while his opponents were younger. No such dynamic will exist in the NHL.

Because you think it's reason to question his upside and possibly trade him. I think while he's a little small for a defenseman, he's a smart enough player to adjust his game to NHL difficulty, and that combined with rounding out his physical development will mitigate most of your concerns (another excellent comparable, Slava Voynov, is 6'0" ~185). It's not just that he got bigger and stronger, it's that he adapted his game to apply those advantages with maximum efficiency. He was making open ice hits in the WJC you never expected him to make given his draft profile. He'll do the same (adapt his game, not be a great open ice hitter) given time.

And I don't see the offensive instincts needed to be a big contributor offensively.I agree with a better forward core and overall team he should be able to get decent offensive numbers. But as a support player not the driving force.

And more often than not, he'll driving the transition that led to the offense. I don't care that he's not a dynamic presence at the point once an offensive possession has been established, he's got the possibility to be dynamic driving the breakout.

Keep in mind my posts were in response to a poster that feels Pysyk will be a minute eating do everything #2 dman. I don't see it for the reasons I've stated. But I certainly see him as a top 4 dman in this league.

I think he's closer to that than the vanilla top four defenseman you're pegging him as.

But on defense we have Ehrhoff, Myers, Pysyk, Risto, Zads, McNabb and McCabe in the system. Its a position of depth that could be used to land help up front.

Schenn getting more defensive and positional responsibility than in Philly, with worse linemates, probably isn't gonna be much help. If we're trading off the blueline, I'd hope its for an actual shutdown center.

Pysyk is no more of a proven commodity as a shutdown dman than Schenn is a top 6 forward. Lets not pretend otherwise.

He's got the three things (IQ, skating, breakout skills) I want in a shutdown defenseman. If he continues along his realistic development curve, he's there. Schenn needs to either A) get way more consistent offensively B) get way better defensively C) play wing with a dominant center to to be a top six forward.

 

[Jame]

Tallinder is a meh comparison for Pysyk. Pysyk is a significantly better skater

Nope. far far closer than they are apart. they compare favorably.

, while Hank is bigger, and uses his size far more effectively, especially in his prime, pre-separated shoulder. While "#3 shutdown guy" is an accurate description of the kid's realistic potential, I think he's got a bit more latent offensive ability than Tallinder because of his wheels.

Tallinder in his prime = excellent skater

I keep comparing him to the 30 point model of Duncan Keith (both are even 6'1" ~200), a far rangier shutdown guy who some people don't like because of his smaller stature for a guy going against top lines (there are a few hysterical descriptions of Keith between 07-09 from Hawks fans who thought he was too small/turnover prone).

Pysyk is more poaitional and passive (Tallinder), than Keith who has always been aggressive in closing lanes and strength in the corners

I also think JJ's insinuations about his game are off base. He'll be a ~30 point guy once the team actually puts together a forward corps, and he's stuck playing shutdown minutes in his second pro year. He consistently got stronger and more physical when he was in juniors, and he's still got a ways to grow into his body.

I don't really think "points" is a worthy discussion... sure, if he develops into a consistent top 4 defensemen and sees the right minutes, he might end up a 30 point guy... a lot of defensemen end up in that range due to minutes/role and not anything particular about their skill set.

I don't trade shutdown players for guys who I'm not sure will be top six forwards.

yea, because giving that label to a guy with ~40 NHL games makes a ton of sense

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Mark Pysyk
Jake McCabe
Marcus Foligno
BUF 2014 2nd

For

Brayden Schenn
Wayne Simmonds

Our 2nd will actually be a top 30 pick as New Jersey has to forfeit their 1st. It probably isn't enough but I would love to get Simmonds here.

 

[gallagt01]

Dude has played ~20 games in the NHL.

Hfboards Sabres fans:

1) We need elite center depth like LA or PIT

2) Sabres draft centers

3) Yeeeeessss!!

4) Fifteen games into their NHL career: HE'S A WINGER!!!!

5) Offseason: WE NEED MORE CENTERS

It's really simple. You take the best four players you have that play Center, and you play them. This labelling of "well you see the third line guy can't be too good at offense, but he needs to be okay but he needs to hit a lot" and "the second line guy should be the guy that isn't good at defense and might be small but still scores" and "the first line guy is Crosby" is just silly extraploation where we look at a succesful team and assume that they are adhereing to some sort of rigid model or system, instead of putting the best 18 skaters that have on the ice and giving the best players the most ice-time.

What are you talking about? Nolan has more or less come out and said that the organization views Girgensons as a winger. It's why he's back on the wing and it's why he's pretty much been there since joining the club (including prospect camp drills and scrimmages).

 

[Chainshot]

I don't care one way or another on Schenn. I haven't been overly impressed with him as a pro, but did enjoy the hype-train when he was a Kings' prospect. If they made a move for him, it would be a move... and I like that they would be making a move. If they need to turn the roster over, do so.

 

[EichHart]

What are you talking about? Nolan has more or less come out and said that the organization views Girgensons as a winger. It's why he's back on the wing and it's why he's pretty much been there since joining the club (including prospect camp drills and scrimmages).

What are you talking about? He was drafted a center and should be a center.

 

[Jame]

What are you talking about? He was drafted a center and should be a center.

and yet, everyone in the organization/at the professional level, thinks otherwise

 

[gallagt01]

What are you talking about? He was drafted a center and should be a center.

That's dandy and all, but there's a reason the organization isn't using him down the middle and has used him there sparsely since he was drafted.

and yet, everyone in the organization/at the professional level, thinks otherwise

Bingo.

 

[Crazy Tasty]

Mark Pysyk
Jake McCabe
Marcus Foligno
BUF 2014 2nd

For

Brayden Schenn
Wayne Simmonds

Our 2nd will actually be a top 30 pick as New Jersey has to forfeit their 1st. It probably isn't enough but I would love to get Simmonds here.

The value might be fair, but I don't like it. Mainly because I want McCabe on this team.