What would/will it take for these 2 goaltenders to make the hhof?

[seventieslord]

Osgood has 3 cups +1 SC finals

Not as a starter. It would skew the exercise to consider those years as significant accomplishments for him.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I'll try to answer that one.

Goalies are pretty underrepresented, so I'll go easy on them as a whole. I'll copy the lists that were provided and just rank them.

1. (List 1 - HHOF already) Patrick Roy - 4 Stanley Cups, 1-time Cup finalist, 3 Smythes, 6 All-Stars (4-1st, 2-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
2. (List 1 - HHOF already) Ken Dryden - 6 Stanley Cups, 1 Smythe, 6 All-Stars (5-1st, 1-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
3. (List 1 - HHOF already) Bernie Parent - 2 Stanley Cups, 2 Smythes, 2 All-Stars (2-1st), 1 Hart runner-up
4. (List 1 - HHOF already) Tony Esposito - 2-time Cup finalist, 5 All-Stars (3-1st, 2-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
5. (List 1 - HHOF already) Billy Smith - 4 Stanley Cups, 1-time Cup finalist, 1 Smythe, 1 All-Star (1-1st)
6. (List 1 - HHOF already) Grant Fuhr - 4 Stanley Cups, 1 Canada Cup, 2 All-Stars (1-1st, 1-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
7. (List 1 - HHOF already) Ed Giacomin - 1-time Cup finalist, 5 All-Stars (2-1st, 3-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
8. (List 2 - not in HHOF) Tom Barrasso: 2 Stanley Cups, 3 All-Stars (1-1st, 2-2nd)
9. (List 2 - not in HHOF) Rogie Vachon: 1 Stanley Cup, 1-time Cup finalist, 1 Canada Cup, 2 All-Stars (2-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
10. (List 1 - HHOF already) Gerry Cheevers - 2 Stanley Cups, 2-time Cup finalist
11. (List 2 - not in HHOF) Mike Vernon: 2 Stanley Cups, 2-time Cup finalist, 1 Smythe, 1 All-Star (1-2nd)

*********Here is where the HHOF cutoff should lie, IMO **************

12. (List 2 - not in HHOF) Bill Ranford: 1 Stanley Cup, 1 Smythe, 1 Canada Cup
13. (List 3 - presently being discussed) J.S. Giguere: 1 Stanley Cup, 1-time Cup finalist, 1 Smythe
14. (List 2 - not in HHOF) Pete Peeters: 1-time Cup Finalist, 1 Canada Cup, 1 All-Star (1-1st), 1 Hart runner-up
15. (List 2 - not in HHOF) Mike Richter: 1 Stanley Cup, 1 World Cup
16. (List 2 - not in HHOF) John Vanbiesbrouck: 1-time Cup finalist, 2 All-Stars (1-1st, 1-2nd)
17. (List 2 - not in HHOF) Ron Hextall: 2-time Cup Finalist, 1 Smythe, 1 All-Star (1-1st)
18. (List 3 - presently being discussed) Chris Osgood: 2 Stanley Cups, 1 All-Star (1-2nd)

In conclusion, Vachon, Vernon and Barrasso should probably be inducted. Two of them are better than Cheevers, who is already there. I wouldn't remove Cheevers, though. Other than that, they've got it right. And this kind of shows where Giguere sits in my mind. Get ahead of Vernon and you're HHOF-caliber.

wow, ranford is surprisingly high on that list. maybe i'm not weighing conn smythes heavily enough, but i would think beezer and peeters would be the top of that second list.

 

[seventieslord]

wow, ranford is surprisingly high on that list. maybe i'm not weighing conn smythes heavily enough, but i would think beezer and peeters would be the top of that second list.

I'll admit, I'm not a huge Ranford fan. I was trying to represent consensus with that list as closely as possible. Ranford was considered the greatest goalie on earth for a while. He didn't just win the Canada Cup, he was the MVP too.

 

[Big Phil]

Osgood has a lot of things that will catch your attention. He was a No. 1 goalie on two Cup champs. He backstopped the Wings to the best record in regular season history. He was a second team all-star (wouldn't have been my pick, and it was a pretty middling year for goalies, but whatevs). But there are too many warts. People remember all the long shot goals in 98. Some say Detroit won the Cup in spite of Osgood. He was excellent in his role in 08, but he was never in a position in which he had to steal a game. Just stay focused and make the saves when needed.

You're thinking of the '95-96 Red Wings right? The '76-77 and '77-78 Habs had a better regular season record

 

[yada]

I'll admit, I'm not a huge Ranford fan. I was trying to represent consensus with that list as closely as possible. Ranford was considered the greatest goalie on earth for a while. He didn't just win the Canada Cup, he was the MVP too.

when was ranford considered the best goalie on earth? i hadnt really ever heard much about ranford other then how he was the goalie for the 90s cup wining team.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

when was ranford considered the best goalie on earth? i hadnt really ever heard much about ranford other then how he was the goalie for the 90s cup wining team.

he's probably talking about 90-91, when roy was injured, belfour was a rookie, hasek had just come to north america, and brodeur was rocking a bad teenage moustache.

it was a transitional time for goalies. puppa, mclean, and cheveldae each had a career season around that time, richter and cujo were rookies, and the consensus top guys in their primes (after roy) were moog, ranford, hrudey, and barasso, with guys like vernon, beezer, hextall also in the discussion.

ranford was easily top 5 at that point, but i still don't think many considered him the best in the world. even injured, that title was clearly roy's.

 

[Big Phil]

he's probably talking about 90-91, when roy was injured, belfour was a rookie, hasek had just come to north america, and brodeur was rocking a bad teenage moustache.

it was a transitional time for goalies. puppa, mclean, and cheveldae each had a career season around that time, richter and cujo were rookies, and the consensus top guys in their primes (after roy) were moog, ranford, hrudey, and barasso, with guys like vernon, beezer, hextall also in the discussion.

ranford was easily top 5 at that point, but i still don't think many considered him the best in the world. even injured, that title was clearly roy's.

Arguable, very arguable. Ranford had a stretch of a couple seasons that was peerless. He won the Smythe in '90 with the Cup, and was the starting goalie for Team Canada at the Canada Cup in '91 also winning the MVP of the tournament. Roy as great as he was, didnt even get invited to the Canada Cup. I dont think anyone was better at that particular time. Of course all that changed in a hurry

 

[Bear of Bad News]

The closest I can ever remember Ranford being referred to as the best in the world was in the early 1990s, when people were suggesting that on the international ice surface, he was the best goalie in the world.

In retrospect, Hasek was obviously the best in the world on the bigger ice, but at the time a lot of North Americans were saying Ranford. And he was very good on the bigger ice.

 

[Canadiens Fan]

Arguable, very arguable. Ranford had a stretch of a couple seasons that was peerless. He won the Smythe in '90 with the Cup, and was the starting goalie for Team Canada at the Canada Cup in '91 also winning the MVP of the tournament. Roy as great as he was, didnt even get invited to the Canada Cup. I dont think anyone was better at that particular time. Of course all that changed in a hurry

Roy not getting invited to the play for the 1991 Canada Cup was based more on politics than actual talent. Keep in mind that Roy won the Vezina trophy in 1989, 1990, and 1992. And while Ranford was a good goalie, and full marks for his Conn Smythe, but he was no Roy.

Regular Seasons leading up to the 1991 Canada Cup.

Ranford
1988–89 Edmonton Oilers 29 gm 15 wins 8 losses 2 ties 1 so 3.50 gaa .877 sp
1989–90 Edmonton Oilers 56 gm 24 wins 16 losses 9 ties 1 so 3.19 gaa .887 sp
1990–91 Edmonton Oilers 60 gm 27 wins 27 losses 3 ties 3.20 gaa .893 sp

Roy
1988–89 Montreal Canadiens 48 gm 33 wins 5 losses 6 ties 4 so 2.47 gaa .908 sp
1989–90 Montreal Canadiens 54 gm 31 wins 16 losses 5 ties 3 so 2.53 gaa .912 sp
1990–91 Montreal Canadiens 48 gm 25 wins 15 losses 6 ties 1 so 2.71 gaa .906 sp

Playoffs Seasons leading up to the 1991 Canada Cup

Ranford
1989–90 Edmonton Oilers 22 gm 16 wins 6 losses 1 so 2.53 gaa .912 sp
1990–91 Edmonton Oilers 3 gm 1 win 2 losses 3.56 gaa .897 sp

Roy
1988-89 Montreal Canadiens 19 gm 13 wins 6 losses 2 so 2.09 gaa .920 sp
1989-90 Montreal Canadiens 11 gm 5 wins 6 losses 1 so 2.43 gaa .911 sp
1990-91 Montreal Canadiens 13 gm 7 wins 5 losses 3.06 gaa .898 sp

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Roy as great as he was, didnt even get invited to the Canada Cup...

...by mike keenan.

that said, i recall roy, bourque, and lemieux all being injured that summer, hence their not playing in the canada cup. but even if roy were able to play and wasn't selected, this was mike keenan making the selections. guys who weren't on the '91 team: adam oates coming off a career year, steve yzerman and joe sakic coming off a 100 point years, mark recchi coming off a career year and a tremendous playoff run, ron francis in his prime. in their place were keenan favourites like brent sutter, dirk graham, shayne corson, and russ courtnall. they were good role players, but you can't tell me ron francis couldn't have done everything brent sutter did, or that recchin ball couldn't have filled russ courtnall or shayne corson's roles.

 

[Big Phil]

...by mike keenan.

that said, i recall roy, bourque, and lemieux all being injured that summer, hence their not playing in the canada cup. but even if roy were able to play and wasn't selected, this was mike keenan making the selections. guys who weren't on the '91 team: adam oates coming off a career year, steve yzerman and joe sakic coming off a 100 point years, mark recchi coming off a career year and a tremendous playoff run, ron francis in his prime. in their place were keenan favourites like brent sutter, dirk graham, shayne corson, and russ courtnall. they were good role players, but you can't tell me ron francis couldn't have done everything brent sutter did, or that recchin ball couldn't have filled russ courtnall or shayne corson's roles.

Politics have always been rumoured to the be the reason why Roy was so underepresented in international tournaments. That might be true considering the '91 team was picked very suspiciously with a lot of star power not there. However, you had a recent Smythe winner and a current Vezina winner on the team. Not a lot of room for Roy and at that time '86 was a long time ago and Roy wasnt quite the legend in '91 that he is now. I would have put Roy ahead of Sean Burke though on that team, but can you picture St. Patrick taking a 3rd stringer role?