What would/will it take for these 2 goaltenders to make the hhof?

[yada]

I was thinking about js giguere and chris osgood. Both these goalies have won a cup and in osgoods case 2 as a starter and a 3 cup as a backup in the playoffs. Giguere also won a conn smythe in a non cup winning season. With the cup being so important for goalies to make the hhof what could get these 2 goalies into the hall. I understand neither have a vezina and have just been considered average to good goalies but not great.

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[Canadiens Fan]

I was thinking about js giguere and chris osgood. Both these goalies have won a cup and in osgoods case 2 as a starter and a 3 cup as a backup in the playoffs. Giguere also won a conn smythe in a non cup winning season. With the cup being so important for goalies to make the hhof what could get these 2 goalies into the hall. I understand neither have a vezina and have just been considered average to good goalies but not great.

Giguere still has plenty of time to add to his resume. The only way that Osgoode gets into the Hall of Fame is by paying the admission fee like you and me.

 

[MadArcand]

Osgood needs a miracle, and Giguere needs to improve dramatically. Not likely, either.

 

[FissionFire]

Osgood would have to have a couple more strong regular seasons, but at least one Conn Smythe playoff run to get serious consideration. Even then it would be a longshot at best, 400+ wins or not.

 

[Dark Shadows]

Osgood would have to have a couple more strong regular seasons, but at least one Conn Smythe playoff run to get serious consideration. Even then it would be a longshot at best, 400+ wins or not.

Good to see you bud

 

[seventieslord]

Osgood doesn't have much of a chance. Everyone knows he's always been an above-average goalie at best. Being the starter for a 3rd cup win would help.

Giguere is just 31 and probably will play 8 more years. He's got a better resume than Osgood already. He was more important in both of Anaheim's trips to the finals than Osgood has ever been to Detroit. I think he's closer than a lot of people realize, but some regular season accomplishments would really help. Instead of always being a top-8 goalie, he needs to contend for the Vezina a few times.

 

[yada]

Osgood doesn't have much of a chance. Everyone knows he's always been an above-average goalie at best. Being the starter for a 3rd cup win would help.

Giguere is just 31 and probably will play 8 more years. He's got a better resume than Osgood already. He was more important in both of Anaheim's trips to the finals than Osgood has ever been to Detroit. I think he's closer than a lot of people realize, but some regular season accomplishments would really help. Instead of always being a top-8 goalie, he needs to contend for the Vezina a few times.

if giguere doesnt ever get a 1 or 2 team all star selection or get vezina consideration will he still be able to make it in with the conn smythe and cup? would it take a magic number as far as wins or what in particular do you think it would take? i just pulled up his regular season career stats and hes posted 195 wins 155 loses 25 ties and 25 ot loses. career save pct .915 gaa 2.44 and 30 shutouts.

 

[RECsGuy*]

Jean-Sebastien Giguere's career #'s:

Reg. Seas.

GP: 402.4380555 (24146 min., 17 sec.)
GA: 980
GAA: 2.44
SV/SH: 10605/11585
SV%: 0.915
SO: 30 (1:13.41 GP)
W-L-T: 195-180-25 (52.00% W.Pct.)


Post Seas.

GP: 52.5 (3150 min.)
GA: 110
GAA: 2.10
SV/SH: 1357/1467
SV%: 0.925
SO: 6 (1:8.75 GP)
W-L: 33-17 (66% W.Pct.)


Total

GP: 454.9380555 (27296 min., 17 sec.)
GA: 1090
GAA: 2.40
SV: 11962/13052
SV%: 0.916
SO: 36 (1:12.64 GP)
W-L-T: 228-197-25 (53.65% W.Pct.)

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Giguere, 2-3 Vezina nominations.

Osgood, friends on the committee.

 

[Big Phil]

Ask yourself this: Should Andy Moog be in the Hall of Fame? I loved him, but he doesnt quite make the cut. Moog was always a very good goalie. He won 3 Cups, mostly as a backup though. He was a bigger part of his team's sucess than Osgood has been. That is my argument AGAINST Osgood anytime it is brought up. He is not quite at Moog's level, and Moog himself wont get in the HHOF.


Giguere is a different story. He is 31. He has time left on his side. Anaheim can easily be Cup contenders for the next 5 years and if Giguere is there he's a lock to be huge part of it. He has a Cup and a Conn Smythe in separate seasons. Had he had 2 Smythes, you'd have to think he'll get in, but he wasnt without a doubt the best Duck in '07. Give him time, when his career is over we'll see

 

[VanIslander]

... js giguere and chris osgood...

bah... Kolzig, Khabibulin, Joseph have all been better goalies, have better careers even if less hardware or peaks or luck with teams played for

 

[tony d]

Giguere needs to win 2 more Stanley Cups and/or to cement a spot in the top 5 goalies in the NHL currently.

As for Osgood I doubt he ever gets in the Hall of Fame

 

[MS]

If Giguere wins a Vezina his chances would be pretty good. Vezina/Cup/Conn Smythe is a pretty good resume that would probably be enough ... especially since he's been a pretty consistently upper-end goalie since 2002.

There's almost nothing Osgood can do. Even if he puts together a career that looks like a HHOF career on paper, he still won't be inducted. His reputation is just too much to overcome, and the credibility of the HHOF would be pretty severely undermined if he were inducted. This is a player who was on waivers in the middle of the prime of his career.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I was thinking about js giguere and chris osgood. Both these goalies have won a cup and in osgoods case 2 as a starter and a 3 cup as a backup in the playoffs. Giguere also won a conn smythe in a non cup winning season. With the cup being so important for goalies to make the hhof what could get these 2 goalies into the hall. I understand neither have a vezina and have just been considered average to good goalies but not great.

Chris Osgood meet andy Moog--you both suffer from the same disease--good goalies on real good teams. Ogood is like moog and he was good but not great

JGG it will be about stats--right now he just has 4 30+ win seasons--the magic number for a goalie to get into the hall of fame seems to be 300 wins+ outstanding numbers. JGG is at 197 or so for wins--so if he wins say 100+ games over the next three season he may get a chance. Off the top of my head I do not know how many goalies who have 300+ wins, a cup and a few personal trophies are not in the hall of fame.

 

[Dark Shadows]

I expect Norrisnick will be here losing his mind over how Osgood gets underrated any minute now.

That said. Giguere has a better chance, but still needs something else.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I expect Norrisnick will be here losing his mind over how Osgood gets underrated any minute now.

That said. Giguere has a better chance, but still needs something else.

like 100 more wins

Moog is at 280ish and not in

 

[Bear of Bad News]

like 100 more wins

Moog is at 280ish and not in

What?

Andy Moog won 372 National Hockey League regular-season games, and 68 more in the Stanley Cup playoffs. Hardly "280ish".

 

[Big Phil]

like 100 more wins

Moog is at 280ish and not in

Moog actually had an impressive record of 372-209. That's quite the discrepancy in wins/losses. And yet he isnt in and probably never will. The words "elite" dont roll off of my tongue when I mention Moog, I want to but I cant. Same with Osgood. "Great" isnt a word associated with these guys. It just isnt.

 

[reckoning]

Here's the 8 NHL goalies who had their prime in the post-expansion era who have been inducted in the Hall of Fame so far, along with their championships/awards as starters:

Gerry Cheevers - 2 Stanley Cups, 2-time Cup finalist
Ken Dryden - 6 Stanley Cups, 1 Smythe, 6 All-Stars (5-1st, 1-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
Tony Esposito - 2-time Cup finalist, 5 All-Stars (3-1st, 2-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
Grant Fuhr - 4 Stanley Cups, 1 Canada Cup, 2 All-Stars (1-1st, 1-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
Ed Giacomin - 1-time Cup finalist, 5 All-Stars (2-1st, 3-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
Bernie Parent - 2 Stanley Cups, 2 Smythes, 2 All-Stars (2-1st), 1 Hart runner-up
Patrick Roy - 4 Stanley Cups, 1-time Cup finalist, 3 Smythes, 6 All-Stars (4-1st, 2-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
Billy Smith - 4 Stanley Cups, 1-time Cup finalist, 1 Smythe, 1 All-Star (1-1st)

Now let's take a look at 8 goalies who haven't made it in:

Tom Barrasso: 2 Stanley Cups, 3 All-Stars (1-1st, 2-2nd)
Ron Hextall: 2-time Cup Finalist, 1 Smythe, 1 All-Star (1-1st)
Pete Peeters: 1-time Cup Finalist, 1 Canada Cup, 1 All-Star (1-1st), 1 Hart runner-up
Bill Ranford: 1 Stanley Cup, 1 Smythe, 1 Canada Cup
Mike Richter: 1 Stanley Cup, 1 World Cup
Rogie Vachon: 1 Stanley Cup, 1-time Cup finalist, 1 Canada Cup, 2 All-Stars (2-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
John Vanbiesbrouck: 1-time Cup finalist, 2 All-Stars (1-1st, 1-2nd)
Mike Vernon: 2 Stanley Cups, 2-time Cup finalist, 1 Smythe, 1 All-Star (1-2nd)

And the two goalies in this topic:

Chris Osgood: 2 Stanley Cups, 1 All-Star (1-2nd)
J.S. Giguere: 1 Stanley Cup, 1-time Cup finalist, 1 Smythe

I don't mean to disrespect either of those two goalies (and they may still add to their career accomplishments) but based on what they have done so far, but they appear to be more in place with Group #2 than Group #1. In fact, I would go as far as to say that if Osgood retired today and got inducted to the Hall in 2011, he'd be the worst goalie there. And that's not a slam against him; somebody has to be the worst goalie in the Hall. It doesn't mean they're a bad goalie.

I believe that goalies are very under-represented in the Hall, considering their importance to the game and compared with the number of forwards there. So the idea of Osgood making it isn't totally unrealistic because there should be more goalies there. But I can't see any possible reason to justify why he should get in ahead of Vachon, Barrasso and Vernon.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i have a hypothetical. at the age of 34, sean burke worked with one of the allaire brothers to reinvent his game and had his two best regular seasons. he put up phenomenal numbers and was a vezina finalist, albeit a distant third, the second year. granted osgood is 36 now, but what if he comes back next year with a completely new style, wow everyone, have a couple of legitimate top 5 seasons and then retire? given the "what have you done for me lately" syndrome where people are touting brind'amour as a better HHOF candidate than roenick (as has been repeated in a couple of threads in recent days), and given niedermayer's current "lock" status, would this hypothetical situation put osgood over the top? and would it be any more ludicrous than larry murphy getting in in his first year of eligibility?

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

i have a hypothetical. at the age of 34, sean burke worked with one of the allaire brothers to reinvent his game and had his two best regular seasons. he put up phenomenal numbers and was a vezina finalist, albeit a distant third, the second year. granted osgood is 36 now, but what if he comes back next year with a completely new style, wow everyone, have a couple of legitimate top 5 seasons and then retire? given the "what have you done for me lately" syndrome where people are touting brind'amour as a better HHOF candidate than roenick (as has been repeated in a couple of threads in recent days), and given niedermayer's current "lock" status, would this hypothetical situation put osgood over the top? and would it be any more ludicrous than larry murphy getting in in his first year of eligibility?

HHoF voters, if nothing else, are better than what have you done for me lately types.

 

[yada]

Here's the 8 NHL goalies who had their prime in the post-expansion era who have been inducted in the Hall of Fame so far, along with their championships/awards as starters:

Gerry Cheevers - 2 Stanley Cups, 2-time Cup finalist
Ken Dryden - 6 Stanley Cups, 1 Smythe, 6 All-Stars (5-1st, 1-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
Tony Esposito - 2-time Cup finalist, 5 All-Stars (3-1st, 2-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
Grant Fuhr - 4 Stanley Cups, 1 Canada Cup, 2 All-Stars (1-1st, 1-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
Ed Giacomin - 1-time Cup finalist, 5 All-Stars (2-1st, 3-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
Bernie Parent - 2 Stanley Cups, 2 Smythes, 2 All-Stars (2-1st), 1 Hart runner-up
Patrick Roy - 4 Stanley Cups, 1-time Cup finalist, 3 Smythes, 6 All-Stars (4-1st, 2-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
Billy Smith - 4 Stanley Cups, 1-time Cup finalist, 1 Smythe, 1 All-Star (1-1st)

Now let's take a look at 8 goalies who haven't made it in:

Tom Barrasso: 2 Stanley Cups, 3 All-Stars (1-1st, 2-2nd)
Ron Hextall: 2-time Cup Finalist, 1 Smythe, 1 All-Star (1-1st)
Pete Peeters: 1-time Cup Finalist, 1 Canada Cup, 1 All-Star (1-1st), 1 Hart runner-up
Bill Ranford: 1 Stanley Cup, 1 Smythe, 1 Canada Cup
Mike Richter: 1 Stanley Cup, 1 World Cup
Rogie Vachon: 1 Stanley Cup, 1-time Cup finalist, 1 Canada Cup, 2 All-Stars (2-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
John Vanbiesbrouck: 1-time Cup finalist, 2 All-Stars (1-1st, 1-2nd)
Mike Vernon: 2 Stanley Cups, 2-time Cup finalist, 1 Smythe, 1 All-Star (1-2nd)

And the two goalies in this topic:

Chris Osgood: 2 Stanley Cups, 1 All-Star (1-2nd)
J.S. Giguere: 1 Stanley Cup, 1-time Cup finalist, 1 Smythe

I don't mean to disrespect either of those two goalies (and they may still add to their career accomplishments) but based on what they have done so far, but they appear to be more in place with Group #2 than Group #1. In fact, I would go as far as to say that if Osgood retired today and got inducted to the Hall in 2011, he'd be the worst goalie there. And that's not a slam against him; somebody has to be the worst goalie in the Hall. It doesn't mean they're a bad goalie.

I believe that goalies are very under-represented in the Hall, considering their importance to the game and compared with the number of forwards there. So the idea of Osgood making it isn't totally unrealistic because there should be more goalies there. But I can't see any possible reason to justify why he should get in ahead of Vachon, Barrasso and Vernon.

good post and sort of what i was looking for. i wasnt sure who would be comparable to giguere. now in your group 2 list which of those goalies should be in the hall of fame?

 

[God Bless Canada]

Giguere has some things going for him. He won a Stanley Cup, and frankly, I don't think he gets enough credit for how good he was in 2007. He missed the first three games due to injury, but once he stepped in, he was magnificent. He also has the memorable performance in the 2003 playoffs.

Giguere's problem is that the HHOF credentials end there. He's had seasons in which he was one of the top 10 goalies in the league, but none in which people thought he should be top five. And he's been a roller coaster. He followed up the 2003 playoffs with a clunker performance the following season. He struggled in 2005-06 for much of that season. 2006-07 and 2007-08 were strong, but then he faltered in the 2008 playoffs.

To get in, he needs to elevate his game another notch and become a consistent top five goalie in the league for three or four seasons.

Osgood has a lot of things that will catch your attention. He was a No. 1 goalie on two Cup champs. He backstopped the Wings to the best record in regular season history. He was a second team all-star (wouldn't have been my pick, and it was a pretty middling year for goalies, but whatevs). But there are too many warts. People remember all the long shot goals in 98. Some say Detroit won the Cup in spite of Osgood. He was excellent in his role in 08, but he was never in a position in which he had to steal a game. Just stay focused and make the saves when needed.

Detroit couldn't wait to get rid of him a few years ago. He faded with Long Island and St. Louis.

I don't think he's HHOF calibre. I look at some of the best eligible goalies not in the HHOF - Rogie Vachon, Mike Vernon, Tom Barasso - and they were all definitely a significant cut above Osgood.

 

[Riffo*]

Here's the 8 NHL goalies who had their prime in the post-expansion era who have been inducted in the Hall of Fame so far, along with their championships/awards as starters:

Gerry Cheevers - 2 Stanley Cups, 2-time Cup finalist
Ken Dryden - 6 Stanley Cups, 1 Smythe, 6 All-Stars (5-1st, 1-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
Tony Esposito - 2-time Cup finalist, 5 All-Stars (3-1st, 2-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
Grant Fuhr - 4 Stanley Cups, 1 Canada Cup, 2 All-Stars (1-1st, 1-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
Ed Giacomin - 1-time Cup finalist, 5 All-Stars (2-1st, 3-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
Bernie Parent - 2 Stanley Cups, 2 Smythes, 2 All-Stars (2-1st), 1 Hart runner-up
Patrick Roy - 4 Stanley Cups, 1-time Cup finalist, 3 Smythes, 6 All-Stars (4-1st, 2-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
Billy Smith - 4 Stanley Cups, 1-time Cup finalist, 1 Smythe, 1 All-Star (1-1st)

Now let's take a look at 8 goalies who haven't made it in:

Tom Barrasso: 2 Stanley Cups, 3 All-Stars (1-1st, 2-2nd)
Ron Hextall: 2-time Cup Finalist, 1 Smythe, 1 All-Star (1-1st)
Pete Peeters: 1-time Cup Finalist, 1 Canada Cup, 1 All-Star (1-1st), 1 Hart runner-up
Bill Ranford: 1 Stanley Cup, 1 Smythe, 1 Canada Cup
Mike Richter: 1 Stanley Cup, 1 World Cup
Rogie Vachon: 1 Stanley Cup, 1-time Cup finalist, 1 Canada Cup, 2 All-Stars (2-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
John Vanbiesbrouck: 1-time Cup finalist, 2 All-Stars (1-1st, 1-2nd)
Mike Vernon: 2 Stanley Cups, 2-time Cup finalist, 1 Smythe, 1 All-Star (1-2nd)

And the two goalies in this topic:

Chris Osgood: 2 Stanley Cups, 1 All-Star (1-2nd)
J.S. Giguere: 1 Stanley Cup, 1-time Cup finalist, 1 Smythe

I don't mean to disrespect either of those two goalies (and they may still add to their career accomplishments) but based on what they have done so far, but they appear to be more in place with Group #2 than Group #1. In fact, I would go as far as to say that if Osgood retired today and got inducted to the Hall in 2011, he'd be the worst goalie there. And that's not a slam against him; somebody has to be the worst goalie in the Hall. It doesn't mean they're a bad goalie.

I believe that goalies are very under-represented in the Hall, considering their importance to the game and compared with the number of forwards there. So the idea of Osgood making it isn't totally unrealistic because there should be more goalies there. But I can't see any possible reason to justify why he should get in ahead of Vachon, Barrasso and Vernon.

Osgood has 3 cups +1 SC finals

 

[seventieslord]

I'll try to answer that one.

Goalies are pretty underrepresented, so I'll go easy on them as a whole. I'll copy the lists that were provided and just rank them.

1. (List 1 - HHOF already) Patrick Roy - 4 Stanley Cups, 1-time Cup finalist, 3 Smythes, 6 All-Stars (4-1st, 2-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
2. (List 1 - HHOF already) Ken Dryden - 6 Stanley Cups, 1 Smythe, 6 All-Stars (5-1st, 1-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
3. (List 1 - HHOF already) Bernie Parent - 2 Stanley Cups, 2 Smythes, 2 All-Stars (2-1st), 1 Hart runner-up
4. (List 1 - HHOF already) Tony Esposito - 2-time Cup finalist, 5 All-Stars (3-1st, 2-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
5. (List 1 - HHOF already) Billy Smith - 4 Stanley Cups, 1-time Cup finalist, 1 Smythe, 1 All-Star (1-1st)
6. (List 1 - HHOF already) Grant Fuhr - 4 Stanley Cups, 1 Canada Cup, 2 All-Stars (1-1st, 1-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
7. (List 1 - HHOF already) Ed Giacomin - 1-time Cup finalist, 5 All-Stars (2-1st, 3-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
8. (List 2 - not in HHOF) Tom Barrasso: 2 Stanley Cups, 3 All-Stars (1-1st, 2-2nd)
9. (List 2 - not in HHOF) Rogie Vachon: 1 Stanley Cup, 1-time Cup finalist, 1 Canada Cup, 2 All-Stars (2-2nd), 1 Hart runner-up
10. (List 1 - HHOF already) Gerry Cheevers - 2 Stanley Cups, 2-time Cup finalist
11. (List 2 - not in HHOF) Mike Vernon: 2 Stanley Cups, 2-time Cup finalist, 1 Smythe, 1 All-Star (1-2nd)

*********Here is where the HHOF cutoff should lie, IMO **************

12. (List 2 - not in HHOF) Bill Ranford: 1 Stanley Cup, 1 Smythe, 1 Canada Cup
13. (List 3 - presently being discussed) J.S. Giguere: 1 Stanley Cup, 1-time Cup finalist, 1 Smythe
14. (List 2 - not in HHOF) Pete Peeters: 1-time Cup Finalist, 1 Canada Cup, 1 All-Star (1-1st), 1 Hart runner-up
15. (List 2 - not in HHOF) Mike Richter: 1 Stanley Cup, 1 World Cup
16. (List 2 - not in HHOF) John Vanbiesbrouck: 1-time Cup finalist, 2 All-Stars (1-1st, 1-2nd)
17. (List 2 - not in HHOF) Ron Hextall: 2-time Cup Finalist, 1 Smythe, 1 All-Star (1-1st)
18. (List 3 - presently being discussed) Chris Osgood: 2 Stanley Cups, 1 All-Star (1-2nd)

In conclusion, Vachon, Vernon and Barrasso should probably be inducted. Two of them are better than Cheevers, who is already there. I wouldn't remove Cheevers, though. Other than that, they've got it right. And this kind of shows where Giguere sits in my mind. Get ahead of Vernon and you're HHOF-caliber.