What to make of this: Toews: +193, Kane: +59

[CokenoPepsi]

Funny how narratives exist at the time but are limited, and people create new ones years later. And not having 10 pts? Not quite though 13 was a low scoring total playoffs. But also the story from those following the hawks market was pushing how Kane was nowhere and irrelevant until late in the Kings series. Though I found it harsh that ignored his production in losses to Detroit. But many hawks beat writers were pushing Crawford and Sharp for the Smythe because all postseason they were consistent which was my true of Kane or Toews. But that's a year the recent element won out.

But this is another post just talking about points. And again, why?

Its a matter of topic about what comes down to preventing goals against more than not. Theres no metric, stat, or reasonable persons eye test that can deny Toews did that more than Kane while in those seasons not scoring so far below his own.

Narratives and biases will always play a big part in deciding awards like that..see Crosby winning the CS in 16 and Ovi this year the media pushes their story and it plays a big part sadly

Kane's CS was fine... Crawford would have been ok too but he hurt himself giving up some rather weak goals against the Wild and Detroit...the 5 goals given up in game 4 and then Kane quickly finishing the Bruins off in game 5 pretty much sealed it.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Funny how narratives exist at the time but are limited, and people create new ones years later. And not having 10 pts? Not quite though 13 was a low scoring total playoffs. But also the story from those following the hawks market was pushing how Kane was nowhere and irrelevant until late in the Kings series. Though I found it harsh that ignored his production in losses to Detroit. But many hawks beat writers were pushing Crawford and Sharp for the Smythe because all postseason they were consistent which was my true of Kane or Toews. But that's a year the recent element won out.

But this is another post just talking about points. And again, why?

Its a matter of topic about what comes down to preventing goals against more than not. Theres no metric, stat, or reasonable persons eye test that can deny Toews did that more than Kane while in those seasons not scoring so far below his own.

I clearly stated he didn’t even have 10 points with 1 goal through the first 20 some odd games of that post season. That’s the truth. No way a center could get away with such low production without having a tremendous supporting cast, and Kane has always been their big offensive guy.

I agree, Crawford was my pick as well, but I understand why they picked Kane. Not one player truly distinguished himself enough to be clear cut, but Kane was second in goals and first in points....in the end that was valuable enough.

Because that’s what Kane has brought the hawks and it’s what has been a very big part of their success, and that’s not taking anything away from Toews....it’s just ridiculous to say Kane wasn’t one, if not more valuable at times during their cup runs. That’s what made them so so successful, having two guys with abilities that complimented eachother.

I don’t buy that. Whether the score is 1-0, or 6-5...a win is a win. You can preach all you want about goal differential, but in the end it’s about balance. Toews was and is better defensively, there is no denying that...but he didn’t “do more” by playing defense. Because like I pointed out, defense doesn’t win cups, balance does. Toews wasn’t scoring at all during their ‘13 post season run up until the last few games, Kane was. Toews wasn’t scoring OR playing great defensively during the ‘10 finals, Kane along side Keith carried the team and Kane burried Philly with 8 points and a cup deciding goal. In fact, Toews wasn’t even used as the match up Center their first two cup wins, Bolland was. Toews has had plenty of help defensively to be able to succeed. Let’s also not forget that Toews had the superior linemates. Majority of their success in guys like Hossa, Sharp, and Saad.

Kane earned his cups and did just as much as Toews did. He deserves the respect is sorely lacks at times, all because he didn’t play defense, he scored instead.....and he was pretty damn good at it.

 

[bdub24]

What to make of it? Hopefully either a miss again for the playoffs or a sweep in the first round.

 

[sr edler]

All of Kane's PP points aren't counted in this stat.

Kane has 95 more PP points than Toews. That doesn't close the gap.

 

[jaysoneil]

Put Kane at C on the '#1' line.
Put Toews at RW on the '#2" line.

Kane would fold like a lawn chair defensively.
Toews would choke on water trying to accumulate points.

Topic is Pejorative Slured, two completely different players playing two completely different roles.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Put Kane at C on the '#1' line.
Put Toews at RW on the '#2" line.

Kane would fold like a lawn chair defensively.
Toews would choke on water trying to accumulate points.

Topic is ******ed, two completely different players playing two completely different roles.

Kane would struggle exponentially more than Toews. It isn't even close. Toews' offensive game might be liberated a bit if he could be freed from having to do everything from center for the Hawks. Kane OTOH would get absolutely murdered trying to hang at center.

 

[ClydeLee]

Of course there is more to the game than simple point production however there comes a point that the gap becomes too large for it to ignore and Kane has that advantage despite Toews being sheltered in later years playing with hall of famers like Hossa and Keith everytime he is on the ice.

Meanwhile Kane always gets the short end of the stick playing whose centers recently have been Dave Bolland (out of the league) Michael Handzus (out of the league) washed up Brad Richards (out of the league) in fact when he finally got a linemate to play with he was very quickly traded to try and save Toews.

It is pretty clear to me they were fairly even pre lockout both having better years than the other at times but Kane has clearly stood out since 2013 on as the superior player

Totally surprising someone could declare the guy moved to another line to take advantage of more offensive zone play, often more offensive linemates, and less top d matchups is the one less sheltered than the other.

If you want to talk about better lines well they mainly were together 80% until 2011-12. That year was the anomaly since Kane started at center with Hossa at his wing and later he went back to Toews wing to go back to center when Toews got hurt. Yet Toews top frequent linemate was Viktor Stalberg.

But the 3 years after easily Toews had better and nearly all season long consistent lines while Kane didn't... but the last 3 seasons Kane has had that benefit of better consistent lines.

But concluding Toews as sheltered doesnt add up when even in the declining time he's faced tougher matchups because that's the whole intention of keeping them separate.

 

[3074326]

Kane has 95 more PP points than Toews. That doesn't close the gap.

Considering Toews is way better defensively it makes more sense.

So, what we've learned from this thread is that Toews is better than Kane defensively. Groundbreaking stuff.