What the hell is going on with the Sharks?

[Vinsanity89]

I know it's early but their powerplay is a mess (0% with that firepower??); can't score to save their lives and they looked like they quit in front of an empty stadium against a team with significantly less talent than them. Also weird that Deboer has their D firing shots from the point with reckless abandon instead of letting some of their skilled forwards create offense. Puzzling with that much talent on their team?

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[AKL]

And already 3.7% of the way into the season too. Will they be able to turn it around with what's left? We'll see.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

In my humble opinion, the Sharks are pretenders and Karlsson is lipstick on a pig.

Their core is getting old. Thornton, Burns, Pavelski, Vlasic are all on the wrong side of 30. The clock is ticking on their effectiveness big time.

Couture, Kane, and Hertl aren't good enough to carry the offense.

Who knows if Karlsson will be back next year.

Come January everyone will know it's time for them to re-build.

 

[Kale Hulls]

Preseason favorites too a bunch of old has beens. Ping me tomorrow when they burn down my village.

 

[JPeeper]

It's been 3 games though.

 

[tiburon12]

What we've seen in 3 games is that Sharks are controlling the play and dominating the teams they are playing. Jones had some stinkers against the Ducks, and today the Islanders capitalized on some defensive miscues. The Sharks were still the better team and looked like the better team in each game despite the score. I'm not too worried about them just yet.

Our PP is trash though, and i think that is more due to strategy than the players being inefficient. We have no shot options with a lefty playing the left half wall and a righty playing the right half wall. that's on the coaching staff.

The guys are also learning how to play with a guy like Karlsson. He is not the same type of offensive Dman as Burns, and you can see players are not expecting passes or expecting him to be up in the rush with them. Many times he has been open joining the rush and hasn't gotten any looks because the forwards aren't expecting him to be there. That takes time.

I'm still optimistic about this team, though we really need to sting together some wins asap

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Their PP will be fine once it runs thru Karlsson and not Burns

 

[93LEAFS]

I haven't watched them enough to comment with much insight. But, I do think San Jose's PP this year will be a great test for the theory that teams should pretty much always run a 4F-1D PP. Nashville is the team that does it the most, and they are generally a middle of the pack PP team. Most of the ones that have been elite over the past couple years run a 4f-1d set up like Pitt, Toronto, Tampa, Washington, and Tampa who are the top 5 PP's in the NHL during the 2016-17 and 2017-18 seasons when combined.

Nashville is one of the only teams that I can think of that constantly runs the 3f-2d set-up, and despite having elite talent, are only the 12th best PP over the past 2 years (11 if you remove Vegas).

Now, Karlsson and Burns are arguably the two best offensive defencemen in the league (it might not be much of an argument). So it will be interesting to see how this PP does, and whether it can be a top 5 or top 10 unit. Now, I know PP's can be erratic, so its a bit unfair to go off of one-season of data and draw too much of a conclusion, but I do think it has some interest as a test case.

 

[Reality Check]

[HOTTAKE]

Karlsson is a cancer. Eugene Melynk is a genius.

[/HOTTAKE]

 

[Rabid Ranger]

It's been 3 games though.

Didn't you get the memo? On HF Boards seasons are won or lost after three games! What is this-the NFL?

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Except Burns used to play forward. They need to let Karlsson QB and have Burns as the shooter

 

[WesMcCauley]

I haven't watched them enough to comment with much insight. But, I do think San Jose's PP this year will be a great test for the theory that teams should pretty much always run a 4F-1D PP. Nashville is the team that does it the most, and they are generally a middle of the pack PP team. Most of the ones that have been elite over the past couple years run a 4f-1d set up like Pitt, Toronto, Tampa, Washington, and Tampa who are the top 5 PP's in the NHL during the 2016-17 and 2017-18 seasons when combined.

Nashville is one of the only teams that I can think of that constantly runs the 3f-2d set-up, and despite having elite talent, are only the 12th best PP over the past 2 years (11 if you remove Vegas).

Now, Karlsson and Burns are arguably the two best offensive defencemen in the league (it might not be much of an argument). So it will be interesting to see how this PP does, and whether it can be a top 5 or top 10 unit. Now, I know PP's can be erratic, so its a bit unfair to go off of one-season of data and draw too much of a conclusion, but I do think it has some interest as a test case.

The way their PP is setup makes no sense though, need to use EK on the point and run it thru him. Karlsson is stuck on the right wall on the PP which makes no sense and Burns has been absolutely awful in the preseason and the start of the season.
Burns cant defend/doesnt even try to defend. He is one of the most arrogant defensive players in the NHL, just glides around and no defensive effort at all. Pretty embarrassing to watch...

They can easily turn it around and played pretty good in the first two games btw, not good tonight though. Jones has to wake up, he has been pretty bad and their forwards need to score on their chances. Have created a good amount but need to finish.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Except Burns used to play forward. They need to let Karlsson QB and have Burns as the shooter

What's their PP setup? I assumed they'd either have Burns and EK together with EK on the right side or split them up on different units, which wouldn't be ideal.

 

[Iceman]

Curse of Melnyk.

Ate Karlsson’s liver before he left.

 

[DDRhockey]

3 games.

How did the lowly sens beat allstar toronto the other day?

I nominate thus thread the dumbest in hfboard history

 

[Paxon]

Not every team can scream out to a hot "over .500 start" like my Sabres. Some teams take 5 or 6 years to get over .500, like Buffalo.

 

[93LEAFS]

The way their PP is setup makes no sense though, need to use EK on the point and run it thru him. Karlsson is stuck on the right wall on the PP which makes no sense and Burns has been absolutely awful in the preseason and the start of the season.
Burns cant defend/doesnt even try to defend. He is one of the most arrogant defensive players in the NHL, just glides around and no defensive effort at all. Pretty embarrassing to watch...

They can easily turn it around and played pretty good in the first two games btw, not good tonight though. Jones has to wake up, he has been pretty bad and their forwards need to score on their chances. Have created a good amount but need to finish.

I'd say that there is always going to be an adjustment period. I understand why the Sharks have set-up that way. I don't think PP's have a tradition point shot guy anymore. They basically all run a dynamic 1-3-1, with the defender walking the line and a guy on each half-wall. For example, using the team I'm most familiar with (Leafs), the Leafs run their PP through Marner on the right side, and want him to use his vision to either set up slap passes or a deadly cross-ice path to Matthews. I don't think it would make sense to flip Burns and Karlsson though. You want Burns to receive passes where he can utilize his one-timer, even his wrister is probably better coming off the left. So, if you can re-jig things so that Burns takes the left half-wall and Karlsson is the 1D in the set-up and walks the line, that works.

How exactly are the Sharks setting up? Who is the left-half wall, the net crasher and net-front presence in the 1-3-1 set-up with and without Thornton?

 

[LamorielloAndSon]

Teams are playing up to them as if they should put up 120points but they are probably closer to a 50 win team

 

[CallMeShaft]

Obviously playing a #7 defensemen like Erik Karlsson so much is having a negative affect...

Spoiler

They added a huge piece to their team and sometimes it takes time to gel as a group. Some guys just need to get accustomed to playing a different role. They'll be fine in the long run.

 

[Frosty415]

The season is lost blow it up

 

[greasysnapper]

Best way to sum it up:

 

[WesMcCauley]

I'd say that there is always going to be an adjustment period. I understand why the Sharks have set-up that way. I don't think PP's have a tradition point shot guy anymore. They basically all run a dynamic 1-3-1, with the defender walking the line and a guy on each half-wall. For example, using the team I'm most familiar with (Leafs), the Leafs run their PP through Marner on the right side, and want him to use his vision to either set up slap passes or a deadly cross-ice path to Matthews. I don't think it would make sense to flip Burns and Karlsson though. You want Burns to receive passes where he can utilize his one-timer, even his wrister is probably better coming off the left. So, if you can re-jig things so that Burns takes the left half-wall and Karlsson is the 1D in the set-up and walks the line, that works.

How exactly are the Sharks setting up? Who is the left-half wall, the net crasher and net-front presence in the 1-3-1 set-up with and without Thornton?

This is basically what they have to do and its not rocket science... I have no clue why they arent doing it, have been like this since preseason.
Almost every PP has a onetime option from the point though, San Jose do aswell but Burns doesnt have a good onetimer and very rarely uses it anyway. Karlsson has a better onetimer and uses it more often so it is something the defense have to think about, they dont really have to think about Burns taking onetimers from up top because he very rarely does it.
Couture or Thornton has played on the left wall.

 

[Kcb12345]

Teams sometimes get off to a slow start when they acquire new players and see others go. Just the way it works. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes 10 or so games for Karlsson to really start putting up points with regularity, and that's not a bad thing, cause once he starts putting them up he won't stop. Give em time.

 

[93LEAFS]

This is basically what they have to do and its not rocket science... I have no clue why they arent doing it, have been like this since preseason.
Almost every PP has a onetime option from the point though, San Jose do aswell but Burns doesnt have a good onetimer and very rarely uses it anyway. Karlsson has a better onetimer and uses it more often so it is something the defense have to think about, they dont really have to think about Burns taking onetimers from up top because he very rarely does it.
Couture or Thornton has played on the left wall.

I wouldn't really classify where guys line up from now the point. Most of the one-timers are on PP are from closer to what many would label the Ovi spot, which tends to be between the faceoff circle and the lines drawing the faceoff circle. Gone are the days of guys lining up where MacInnis did at the Blue line and the boards. Pretty much all the one-time guys line up as the half-wall guy on the side opposite of the way they shoot. Generally, when someone is at the point on a PP, it is the back defender in the 1-3-1 set up, because the half-wall guy, and either the net-front, or middle crasher are trying to win a puck down low and the defender is there to block the exit clear.

You can run your PP through Karlsson as the right-half wall guy. It just means Burns has to be more willing to be the guy who keeps the puck on-side and then be willing to quickly re-set trying to get it back to EK. Now, you probably want Karlsson to be the primary guy getting the puck in your own-end of clears and creating zone-entries, which is a bit more work from the half-wall position, and may kill a couple seconds each time when re-setting.

 

[joe dirte]

I said from the start neither burns or karlsson will score 60 points this year and got called an idiot.