What system do the Penguins run?

[Jesse]

Was Mike Johnston making the Pens players do stupid stuff? They really turned around after they finally replaced him.

Hindsight being 20/20 - yeah. His system was pretty dumb.

Mike Johnston correctly identified that the Penguins weakness was their defense. The difference between he and Mike Sullivan is that Sullivan decided that the team was going to play it's best defense by playing as much offense as possible. Johnston wanted everyone to bail the offensive zone early and come back to play defense in an unnecessary fashion. Johnston encouraged a bad defensive team to spend more time in their defensive zone. That's the same thing Michel Therrien did. The Penguins are at their best when you take the lid off and just try to mitigate the damage defensively as much as you can.

 

[EightyOne]

The Penguins run a 1-2-2 in the neutral zone with an added wrinkle that is generally called a swing. This means the middle "2" will interchange with/join the top "1" to provide dual pressure on the forecheck. They'll press the top forechecker high, and they'll loop a second player in to provide pressure on top of the first forechecker. That first forechecker rotates into his spot, and the cycle repeats.

Defensively, the Penguins (to the bane of all of us) run a puck-side overload. That means they attack the puck side of the ice four strong, generally leaving one player back in the slot to protect the back door.

Offensively it's basically no holds barred. They gain possession, cycle, and generally just run wild. There's mostly no sense in attempting to discern commonalities when 87/71/81 are out there just doing whatever comes naturally.

I want to agree on principle that this is what they intend and draw up on the board.

But, honestly, in actual gameplay I can't recall them having the discipline to pull this off consistently, at least through the last great many games.

 

[TheMalkinEra]

Just get the puck to Sid, Geno or Phil and get out of the way

 

[Cloned]

The Penguins run a 1-2-2 in the neutral zone with an added wrinkle that is generally called a swing. This means the middle "2" will interchange with/join the top "1" to provide dual pressure on the forecheck. They'll press the top forechecker high, and they'll loop a second player in to provide pressure on top of the first forechecker. That first forechecker rotates into his spot, and the cycle repeats.

Defensively, the Penguins (to the bane of all of us) run a puck-side overload. That means they attack the puck side of the ice four strong, generally leaving one player back in the slot to protect the back door.

Offensively it's basically no holds barred. They gain possession, cycle, and generally just run wild. There's mostly no sense in attempting to discern commonalities when 87/71/81 are out there just doing whatever comes naturally.

This is fantastic. Thanks so much!

If you wouldn't mind, I have two more questions:

What breakouts do the Pens generally use?

Do you think it is possible that the Oilers' coach was talking about the Pens as one of those other teams that use this system? (i.e. is it a commonly run system in the league or is it only a few teams that run it?)

 

[Shady Machine]

Was Mike Johnston making the Pens players do stupid stuff? They really turned around after they finally replaced him.

His system was fine in theory, but just didn't work for the team or in today's NHL. He wanted strong puck support down low in the Dzone and exiting as a 5 man unit. It heavily slowed down the momentum of fast transition players like Sid and Letang. Geno did well in that system because he likes to lug the puck from goal line to goal line with tight support. Too many teams could sit back and clog up the neutral zone because there were very little vertical separation.

The team played well defensively and gave up fewer odd man rushes because everyone was closer together, but it also stifled the Pens speed and offensive creativity.

Sully forced them to skate, skate, skate, and that fits much better into the team's identity.

That and MJ just had an inferior roster.

 

[oobga]

His system was fine in theory, but just didn't work for the team or in today's NHL. He wanted strong puck support down low in the Dzone and exiting as a 5 man unit. It heavily slowed down the momentum of fast transition players like Sid and Letang. Geno did well in that system because he likes to lug the puck from goal line to goal line with tight support. Too many teams could sit back and clog up the neutral zone because there were very little vertical separation.

The team played well defensively and gave up fewer odd man rushes because everyone was closer together, but it also stifled the Pens speed and offensive creativity.

Sully forced them to skate, skate, skate, and that fits much better into the team's identity.

That and MJ just had an inferior roster.

Appreciate the responses, from @Jesse, and @Tom Hanks too.

I don't want to try to reach for too many parallels between the Pens and Oilers, for obvious reasons . But I do feel this concept of playing too defensive has been very much a Todd McLellan thing these last few years as well. His gravitation towards overloading 1 forward line is pretty well documented now, from his SJ and Oilers time. He likes having 1 line that can just free wheel, and everyone else needs to play scared and conservative and just focus on not getting scored on. He turned Hall, Drai, Ebs, Nuge and others into unproductive players so far with the Oilers when they were not on the free wheeling top line. And when we have any lead, the fear mode is across the board and risk is no longer welcome. His obsession with individual mistakes is clear too. He has his assistant making custom videos for individual players of their mistakes to take home, and I guess to feel bad about while watching.

So, I think there is a parallel at least from the coaching perspective. Think the purpose this tread was dropped here was that Oilers assistant coaches were signalling a style change with the Oilers, and we are all just hoping it works out. Time will tell if the personnel is there to do more than try to win games with 1 line attacking and 3 lines trying to just break even.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Appreciate the responses, from @Jesse, and @Tom Hanks too.

I don't want to try to reach for too many parallels between the Pens and Oilers, for obvious reasons . But I do feel this concept of playing too defensive has been very much a Todd McLellan thing these last few years as well. His gravitation towards overloading 1 forward line is pretty well documented now, from his SJ and Oilers time. He likes having 1 line that can just free wheel, and everyone else needs to play scared and conservative and just focus on not getting scored on. He turned Hall, Drai, Ebs, Nuge and others into unproductive players so far with the Oilers when they were not on the free wheeling top line. And when we have any lead, the fear mode is across the board and risk is no longer welcome. His obsession with individual mistakes is clear too. He has his assistant making custom videos for individual players of their mistakes to take home, and I guess to feel bad about while watching.

So, I think there is a parallel at least from the coaching perspective. Think the purpose this tread was dropped here was that Oilers assistant coaches were signalling a style change with the Oilers, and we are all just hoping it works out. Time will tell if the personnel is there to do more than try to win games with 1 line attacking and 3 lines trying to just break even.

Well the Oilers need some guys on the back end who can carry and wheel it up. They really don't have those players at the moment.
Everyone WANTS to play like the Pens, but you need the personnel to do it. When Sid/Malkin are in their later years, I'd hope/suspect we run a different system vs what we have now

 

[Jacob]

I think we run a few different controlled breakouts and I think the players also have the freedom to kind of take what they see out there. I think defensively we're similar to Chicago, mostly a 1-2-2 with some freedom to be more aggressive, and an emphasis on not engaging physically on the forecheck in favor of swarming the puck carrier.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Appreciate the responses, from @Jesse, and @Tom Hanks too.

I don't want to try to reach for too many parallels between the Pens and Oilers, for obvious reasons . But I do feel this concept of playing too defensive has been very much a Todd McLellan thing these last few years as well. His gravitation towards overloading 1 forward line is pretty well documented now, from his SJ and Oilers time. He likes having 1 line that can just free wheel, and everyone else needs to play scared and conservative and just focus on not getting scored on. He turned Hall, Drai, Ebs, Nuge and others into unproductive players so far with the Oilers when they were not on the free wheeling top line. And when we have any lead, the fear mode is across the board and risk is no longer welcome. His obsession with individual mistakes is clear too. He has his assistant making custom videos for individual players of their mistakes to take home, and I guess to feel bad about while watching.

So, I think there is a parallel at least from the coaching perspective. Think the purpose this tread was dropped here was that Oilers assistant coaches were signalling a style change with the Oilers, and we are all just hoping it works out. Time will tell if the personnel is there to do more than try to win games with 1 line attacking and 3 lines trying to just break even.

While the Oilers do have a guy like Sid and Geno in Mcdavid, not one team has two top centers of their ilk and then add what they have below them. So to play like the Pens will take a different shape for other teams. The oilers will need depth just like any other team to run that system consistently well.

That's 3 top lines deep.

 

[BmxHockey]

Bylsma System- Stretch pass.

 

[The Old Master]

I want to agree on principle that this is what they intend and draw up on the board.

But, honestly, in actual gameplay I can't recall them having the discipline to pull this off consistently, at least through the last great many games.

I wouldn't call it a lack of discipline...…..more an intentional lack of structure or extra freedom for skilled players to show their skill, and do things that are just other worldly. but it does take a special type of player to make it work.

 

[Jacob]

Even Johnston’s offensive schematics sucked ass.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Even Johnston’s offensive schematics sucked ass.

 

[BHD]

Even Johnston’s offensive schematics sucked ass.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I think someone uttered the phrase: every time the camera pans to Mike Johnston, its the face of someone losing their car keys

 

[Rodgerwilco]

The Penguins run a 1-2-2 in the neutral zone with an added wrinkle that is generally called a swing. This means the middle "2" will interchange with/join the top "1" to provide dual pressure on the forecheck. They'll press the top forechecker high, and they'll loop a second player in to provide pressure on top of the first forechecker. That first forechecker rotates into his spot, and the cycle repeats.

Defensively, the Penguins (to the bane of all of us) run a puck-side overload. That means they attack the puck side of the ice four strong, generally leaving one player back in the slot to protect the back door.

Offensively it's basically no holds barred. They gain possession, cycle, and generally just run wild. There's mostly no sense in attempting to discern commonalities when 87/71/81 are out there just doing whatever comes naturally.

very well done...

/thread