What player's defensive reputation do you find overrated?

[NarcoPolo]

How is it possible for only a small handful overzealous fans to establish any players reputation? Matthews looks pretty solid defensively this year but the selke will likely forever be Bergerons to loose as long as he's playing at a high level.

 

[Aladyyn]

The fact that people keep saying Matthews shows you how much unfounded hate people have for the Leafs on here.

He may not win a Selke this year, but he will get consideration for the award for many years to come

I posted a large explanation of why Matthews is very good defensively and not a single person has been able to respond with any kind of analysis to counter that, they just keep posting his name

Matthews' defensive metrics are barely better than Eichel's and I don't see anyone calling Jack a defensive wiz (because he is far from it).

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Matthews' defensive metrics are barely better than Eichel's and I don't see anyone calling Jack a defensive wiz (because he is far from it).

The difference between Eichel and Matthews is effort. Jack can be as good, but he isn't. Because he just chooses not to.

 

[HarryLime]

I saw Ovechkin's name pop up earlier.

Honestly, I don't think I've seen anyone on here make a serious defensive argument for Ovechkin, Kane or Green.

That' the joke

 

[Jets012]

Larsson
Santini
Fowler
E Johnson
Seabrook
Provorov

Those are some of the defenseman I think of

 

[Eat The Rich]

Barkov.

 

[The Macho King]

I think a lot of young defenders get a bit overrated on this (guys like Slavin, Provorov). Not to say they aren't great in their own right, but defense is one of those positions where I think it's really hard to be elite defensively without enough experience. From my viewings they both have significant strengths, but they're not in that top echelon of defenders yet.

 

[Jugitsu]

As for the Selke, look I am not a fan of +/- to say the least but I am willing to bet that a lot of the guys that have votes on the Selke do look at +/- and right now Matthews leads the NHL in +/- while being tied for 3rd in the league in scoring if he keeps that up he is going to get votes

No they don't. If the voters gave any real weight on +-, Koivu would've been a landslide winner of last year's Selke with +27 against Bergeron's +12.

But they don't, and rightfully so.

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

Crosby

 

[Kelly]

No they don't. If the voters gave any real weight on +-, Koivu would've been a landslide winner of last year's Selke with +27 against Bergeron's +12.

But they don't, and rightfully so.

He said they looked at it, not that it's the be all end all.

Koivu finished 3rd and had 28 first place votes, you're joking yourself if you think voters don't look at it.

 

[Jugitsu]

He said they looked at it, not that it's the be all end all.

Koivu finished 3rd and had 28 first place votes, you're joking yourself if you think voters don't look at it.

I'm not joking. They don't look at it. Koivu, Kesler and Bergeron were pretty even in lot of statistics that were waved around here on HFboards too. Bergeron was the most popular vote simply because he is Bergeron. Not saying undeserving, he had an edge due to being a possession monster, but his statistics compared to Kesler and Koivu weren't off the charts and yet Koivu finished third despite having the best +- of the three by a long shot.

Let me summarize: Koivu being top 3 in Selke voting had absolutely nothing to do with his +-.

 

[Kale Hulls]

Larsson Lindholm Muzzin

 

[Kelly]

I'm not joking. They don't look at it. Koivu, Kesler and Bergeron were pretty even in lot of statistics that were waved around here on HFboards too. Bergeron was the most popular vote simply because he is Bergeron. Not saying undeserving, he had an edge due to being a possession monster, but his statistics compared to Kesler and Koivu weren't off the charts and yet Koivu finished third despite having the best +- of the three by a long shot.

Let me summarize: Koivu being top 3 in Selke voting had absolutely nothing to do with his +-.

I'm sorry, but what kind of evidence do you have that can prove a group of 100+ voters don't use one of the most accessible "defense" stat? Some probably don't, but I'd imagine a lot of them do look at it with a lot of other information.

Not saying I agree with them using it, I think +/- is pretty much useless, other than in some instances. I just don't agree that some of the PHWA don't look at it.

 

[Jugitsu]

I'm sorry, but what kind of evidence do you have that can prove a group of 100+ voters don't use one of the most accessible "defense" stat? Some probably don't, but I'd imagine a lot of them do look at it with a lot of other information.

Not saying I agree with them using it, I think +/- is pretty much useless, other than in some instances. I just don't agree that some of the PHWA don't look at it.

I don't know what else I can do for you, other than to point out the fact that +- had pretty much zero impact last season's Selke voting, considering how tight of a race it was between the top 3.

Just take a look at last year's +- top 10 or top 20 forwards and see how many players you can locate from Selke voting's top 20 or top 30.

 

[IPS]

If Matthews wins the Selke this would be the most epic bump ever.

 

[OurlordAndSaviorKuch]

If Matthews wins the Selke this would be the most epic bump ever.

But he isn't because he is incredibly overrated and on one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

 

[IPS]

But he isn't because he is incredibly overrated and on one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

HFboards has been nothing short of insanely wrong on everything about Matthews. Be wary about making these claims.

 

[skillhockey]

If Matthews wins the Selke this would be the most epic bump ever.

I wonder when was the last time selker winner wasn't major part of teams pk.

 

[OurlordAndSaviorKuch]

HFboards has been nothing short of insanely wrong on everything about Matthews. Be wary about making these claims.

Which claim would be wrong? Statistically, the Leafs are a terrible defensive team. My comment on him being overrated was more to do with this board then stating it as fact because Leaf fans always tell us how good he is and how he is the best. So yes on these boards he is pretty overrated.

 

[SensFactor]

Have to say Barkov.. Watch him play.. No so good defense

 

[LivingRentFree]

I opened this thread to hopefully see some proper discussion on defensive players. Then I see Matthews and Bergeron being called overrated defensively. Bergeron is the best defensive forward and it's not close.l yet. Matthews is looking like he's on his way.

Are people even trying to be objective any more?

 

[Lovsan]

any1 who has posted Barkov in this thread, they defo have not watched him play a single game..

 

[IPS]

I opened this thread to hopefully see some proper discussion on defensive players. Then I see Matthews and Bergeron being called overrated defensively. Bergeron is the best defensive forward and it's not close.l yet. Matthews is looking like he's on his way.

Are people even trying to be objective any more?

It's literally nothing but straight agenda-pushing nowadays. Objective discussion has been dead on HFBoards for awhile now.

Nowadays, you draw your conclusion and cherry-pick everything possible to fit it .

 

[zeke]

Adam Larsson.

 

[zeke]

any1 who has posted Barkov in this thread, they defo have not watched him play a single game..

agreed. Barkov domintes defensively.