What made Gretzky so good?

[vadim sharifijanov]

Here the 36 year old (in his 18th season that year he led the NHL in assists in the regular season, as he would again the following season) scored a playoff hat trick in a close 5-4 win (Rags only victory in the 5-game series).

Notice how he's in the right place at the right time and opportunistic: on the first goal to receive a sudden misdirected puck he waits a beat and backhands; on the second he pinballs the puck off a Flyer from his office; on the third he gains the blueline and pulls up, moves to open ice and lets go an accurate long slapper. All three goals could be described as "lucky" to some degree. But just as Hasek saves were described as "fluke", there is a greatness in the madness.

it’s also familiarity to some degree. he was new to the rangers but the primary assist on each goal was from a guy he’d played years with previously.

which is actually to say, those guys knew how to play with and take advantage of the genius of gretzky. i don’t think the first goal was a fluke. it looks like tikkanen knows to dump it in so that it’ll ricochet into the slot and gretzky will get there before the penalty killers realize what’s happening. the sedins had a play like that. ditto messier; that was a pas de deux: he knew gretzky would curl and he set the pick to perfection.

Gretzky was asked this question after the game. He said he was watching Kurri's reflection in the plexiglass.

and here is where gretzky’s extraordinary work ethic pays off. there used to be a story about how paul kariya practiced playing right handed for the off chances that it would come in handy in a game. gretzky didn’t just learn how to read the game off the glass, though that in itself is amazing (he talked about doing that in his autobiography so as a kid i tried to use it; of course i couldn’t process what i was seeing nearly quickly enough and i was just taking my attention away from the defenders and losing the puck). it’s that he obviously has practiced that curl over and over again, to the point where seeing a backwards image of the game behind him is the same as seeing the game in front of him. same as how he can read exactly how tikkanen’s dump in will come off the boards.

 

[95Tal]

They used to say all the time that the puck seemed to follow Gretzky around, but there was a reason for that. On this example, watch how he waits behind the play, knowing that if on the off-chance there's a turnover, he will be all alone on the goaltender. That compromised the Kings' defensive coverage on the play, but it was a roll of the dice with a nice pay-out. There aren't too many players that would even try this, lest they get yelled at back at the bench:



When Gretzky was traded to the Kings, there were lots of interviews with players--especially defensemen--talking about their newly-found expectation of jumping into plays with Gretzky on the ice, because passes and plays that never occurred previously entered into the realm of possibility. When it didn't go as planned, defensemen were caught deep, but it was playing the odds, sort of like baseball. I suppose it's what Gretzky referred to as the European style of play he brought: super-fast transitions and the creation of odd-man situations (including one-on-zero when he broke Kurri into the zone, ha ha). He didn't play in the high-scoring era as much as he created it.

Seeing the two-on-one before anyone else, with Tikkanen hustling to join the play:



It's hard to tell but I think I see Gretzky looking over his shoulder before he's out of the defensive zone to see who can join the rush to create a two-on-one, right before Kurri's pass. Man, Kurri was such a great player and so complimentary to Gretzky. Loved that guy.

 

[shazariahl]

There are a lot of great responses in this thread, but something I've mentioned before, which I've never really seen anyone else comment on, is how Gretzky was sneaky and deceptive, and used those skills to create points. On the first example, the blind pass to Kurri, notice how Gretzky skates over towards the boards, almost isolating himself in some ways. Theoretically, this is kind of a dumb idea, since it limits his options, and most players would rather go for the open ice, but it also draws a bunch of people towards him, and creates open space for Kurri.

Watch a bunch of his clips, especially from his Oiler days. If you look for it, you'll notice things like:
- cutting laterally across the zone with the puck, drawing the two defenders close together, then passing it back into the empty space where the first defender should have been, had he not moved across to follow Gretzky. This again creates open ice for his teammate.
- cutting laterally to force the Dman to move in front of the goalie, then shooting it through the defender or back across his momentum. In either way, it always seemed to screen the goalie and give him less chance to react. I've never seen someone move east/west through the offensive zone so much, compared to north/south.
- the fake slapper. So many times you'll see him wind up, fake the shot, then move in closer only to fire off the slap shot from closer range. Sometimes he would get the defenseman to slide to block the shot, which wasn't coming yet, then just walk around him, to shoot instead, or he'd get the goalie to drop down to block the shot, then shoot it high now that the goalie was committed.
- people have mentioned his behind the net play, which was very interesting. For one, it allowed him to see the rest of the ice, and make passes to players is good scoring areas. For another, he'd use the net to create space for himself. If you left him back there, sooner or later someone would get open, then Gretzky would make a perfect pass to the guy, and it would be a good scoring chance. If you tried to go after him, he'd use the net itself as a pick play, and scoot out the other side, usually causing everyone to rush to him (including the goalie often), only for him to then pass to some open teammate who was standing in the space vacated by the defender who decided to chase Gretzky behind the net.
- as for his shot, the accuracy has been mentioned many times, but what people often overlook is how he'd use it so deceptively. You'll see times when he shoots quickly, when no one's expecting it, times when he winds up, then holds the shot for what seems like 1 or 2 seconds too long, but then shoots, or things like his "slap pass", where he fakes the slapshot, and instead passes to someone else. Gretzky was very unpredictable, which rarely seems to get mentioned. He passed when people thought shoot, and shoot when they thought pass. All the time.
- he was a lot quicker than people give him credit for. His top speed was nothing special; probably just above average. But his acceleration was excellent. You rarely see him lose a race for a loose puck.
- he was a take-away machine. The number of times you see him strip someone of the puck, then turn the play the other way up the ice is ridiculous. He scored a ton of points through his forechecking skills.

His understanding of space was unparalleled. He knew where everyone was, where they were going, and then had the ability to actually get the puck where it needed to be. I'm sure there are other people who could pass just as accurately through the years, but they didn't have the anticipation. And I'm sure others have come close to Gretzky's levels of anticipation, but didn't have the physical skills to capitalize on that knowledge (that really seemed to be the case of Gretzky himself in his last few years - they knowledge was still there, but the quickness and ability weren't what they'd been 16 or 17 years earlier). He was at the ultimate intersection of both the skills and the anticipation, and then combined that with world-class agility, quick acceleration, and one of the most accurate slapshots of all time.

 

[The Panther]

There are a lot of great responses in this thread, but something I've mentioned before, which I've never really seen anyone else comment on, is how Gretzky was sneaky and deceptive, and used those skills to create points. On the first example, the blind pass to Kurri, notice how Gretzky skates over towards the boards, almost isolating himself in some ways. Theoretically, this is kind of a dumb idea, since it limits his options, and most players would rather go for the open ice, but it also draws a bunch of people towards him, and creates open space for Kurri.

Watch a bunch of his clips, especially from his Oiler days. If you look for it, you'll notice things like:
- cutting laterally across the zone with the puck, drawing the two defenders close together, then passing it back into the empty space where the first defender should have been, had he not moved across to follow Gretzky. This again creates open ice for his teammate.
- cutting laterally to force the Dman to move in front of the goalie, then shooting it through the defender or back across his momentum. In either way, it always seemed to screen the goalie and give him less chance to react. I've never seen someone move east/west through the offensive zone so much, compared to north/south.
- the fake slapper. So many times you'll see him wind up, fake the shot, then move in closer only to fire off the slap shot from closer range. Sometimes he would get the defenseman to slide to block the shot, which wasn't coming yet, then just walk around him, to shoot instead, or he'd get the goalie to drop down to block the shot, then shoot it high now that the goalie was committed.
- people have mentioned his behind the net play, which was very interesting. For one, it allowed him to see the rest of the ice, and make passes to players is good scoring areas. For another, he'd use the net to create space for himself. If you left him back there, sooner or later someone would get open, then Gretzky would make a perfect pass to the guy, and it would be a good scoring chance. If you tried to go after him, he'd use the net itself as a pick play, and scoot out the other side, usually causing everyone to rush to him (including the goalie often), only for him to then pass to some open teammate who was standing in the space vacated by the defender who decided to chase Gretzky behind the net.
- as for his shot, the accuracy has been mentioned many times, but what people often overlook is how he'd use it so deceptively. You'll see times when he shoots quickly, when no one's expecting it, times when he winds up, then holds the shot for what seems like 1 or 2 seconds too long, but then shoots, or things like his "slap pass", where he fakes the slapshot, and instead passes to someone else. Gretzky was very unpredictable, which rarely seems to get mentioned. He passed when people thought shoot, and shoot when they thought pass. All the time.
- he was a lot quicker than people give him credit for. His top speed was nothing special; probably just above average. But his acceleration was excellent. You rarely see him lose a race for a loose puck.
- he was a take-away machine. The number of times you see him strip someone of the puck, then turn the play the other way up the ice is ridiculous. He scored a ton of points through his forechecking skills.

His understanding of space was unparalleled. He knew where everyone was, where they were going, and then had the ability to actually get the puck where it needed to be. I'm sure there are other people who could pass just as accurately through the years, but they didn't have the anticipation. And I'm sure others have come close to Gretzky's levels of anticipation, but didn't have the physical skills to capitalize on that knowledge (that really seemed to be the case of Gretzky himself in his last few years - they knowledge was still there, but the quickness and ability weren't what they'd been 16 or 17 years earlier). He was at the ultimate intersection of both the skills and the anticipation, and then combined that with world-class agility, quick acceleration, and one of the most accurate slapshots of all time.

Wow, excellent post.

I really agree with that 2nd-point you made about the lateral skating in front of the goalie. People talk about the button-hook at the blue line, and yeah he did that his whole career, but in his prime he was just as likely to close in on the net and then do the lateral cut (usually left) across the middle of the slot. He just seemed to be able to pivot quickly and in full control of the puck, faster than anybody I've seen.

I almost feel this is a lost-art nowadays. You see it occasionally, like in 3-on-3 of course, but rarely in normal game situations do I see players in full control of the puck cutting laterally across the front of the net and shooting it. I guess defenders are so clustered around the front of the goal now that it just isn't possible (or rarely).

 

[Scintillating10]

I've never seen more than highlights from his career and I'm not here to question how good he was, I just want to know what made him as good as he was. Physically he looked like a shrimp, but he still dominated games. How?

Read his book. His hockey smarts is off the chart

 

[Ice9]

Pure instinct

 

[Tarantula]

He knew where the puck was going to be at the end of his shift before he even stepped on the ice.

In the back of the net!

 

[Tarantula]

Saw someone beat me to it upthread

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Goalies with smaller pads. Easier to score.

Kind of like a video game, sonny?

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

Kind of like a video game, sonny?

Kind of like this season. Scoring is way up with just a small reduction in equipment size.

 

[bobbyking]

Patience and creativity through the roof

 

[bobbyking]

That's right. Their gear is so huge that they don't have to rely on instinct/reflexes anymore.

Yeah but at least they can stop a beach ball

 

[bucks_oil]

Doesn’t change the fact that goalies don’t flop around like that anymore for a reason

No they also don't have 50 pound pads strapped to their legs.

Goaltending techniques has always been about calculated risks/odds of stopping a puck given the constraints of your reflexes/speed/strength and equipment.

I'm 44 and I played in both eras with both equipment. I didn't magically get fitter at age 30 with my first "pro-fly" capable pads.

300 other guys played against those same goalies in that same era... your argument is baseless.

 

[The Shadow]

No they also don't have 50 pound pads strapped to their legs.

Goaltending techniques has always been about calculated risks/odds of stopping a puck given the constraints of your reflexes/speed/strength and equipment.

I'm 44 and I played in both eras with both equipment. I didn't magically get fitter at age 30 with my first "pro-fly" capable pads.

300 other guys played against those same goalies in that same era... your argument is baseless.

Actually my point is 100% correct. Compared to today’s standards the goaltending is horrible which I said about the video. My point had nothing to do with who else plays against them.

Read my original point before calling my argument baseless

 

[The Panther]

Actually my point is 100% correct. Compared to today’s standards the goaltending is horrible which I said about the video. My point had nothing to do with who else plays against them.

Here's the thing: The goal you guys are arguing about (and the point of the play is the pass, not the goal, so not sure why we're talking about the goalie) is from 1983. That's 36 years ago. The goalie Kurri beats there is Tony Esposito, who started playing minor-pro hockey in 1964, which is 55 years ago. Esposito was already old-skool, aged 40, about to retire, when that goal was scored 36 years ago.

Anyway: Edmonton's save percentage that regular season (1983) was .881, and this season so far (2019) it's about .898. The difference is .018, which is say 1.8% more shots against Edmonton go in the net this season (against Koskinen, Talbot) than against Moog, Fuhr in 1983.

So, my question is: Given the enormous difference in goaltending equipment between 1983 and 2019, is not the fact that today's Edmonton goalies stop only 1.8% more shots than in 1983 rather to the credit of the 1983 goalies?

Also, before making insulting statements like "couldn't stop a beach ball" from watching one YouTube clip, you might want to watch actual games -- you know, where saves get made.

Here's game one of the 1983 Stanley Cup Final, NY Islanders @ Edmonton. It's about 10 days after the Esposito goal you hated so much, but you'll see the goaltending in this game is exceptional:

 

[bucks_oil]

Actually my point is 100% correct. Compared to today’s standards the goaltending is horrible which I said about the video. My point had nothing to do with who else plays against them.

Read my original point before calling my argument baseless

I read your point. That goaltending may not be to today’s standard... but that cannot be why Gretzky was so good. How could it be?

Gretzky was so good because how he compared to anyone else dealt a level playing field... he was far and away better based on X.

You said “goaltending”... how would that make him so much better than anyone else around him?

That is not the same as saying Gretzky’s 92 goals or (more importantly 215 points) would equate to the same number today.

 

[Merya]

It's prolly the easiest to say he was a savant of hockey. Like you've heard of all kinds of ridiculous things some autistic savants have done in blackjack or math or memory, Wayne was a savant on ice. He saw the future of the game several seconds ahead and was able to select the best options to do with that knowledge. There was nothing really special about him aside from that, but that's why he is and will forever be, the Great One - unsurpassed. The only legend that would transfer to modern time intact and improved compared to peers.

 

[hitman9172]

Uh. How the hell did he know where to pass? Didn't look up once.

I think he was looking at the reflection of the ice in the glass and saw Kurri skating behind him. I remember reading a story about how he often looked at the glass behind the goalie when rushing the puck into the offensive zone in order to figure out who was trailing him.

 

[a79krgm]

I don't intend to take away anything from the Great One, but part of what made him great was his time.

1) Gretz broke in during an expansion period. Like Esposito in the early 70's his numbers are a little inflated because the talent was slightly diluted in the late 70's early 80's.

2) Goaltending size and technique was far behind the sniping and scoring skills of the day. Goalies didn't develop new styles until the 90's. And of course their equipment got bigger - and their frames. I can't imagine Greg Millen or Corrado Micalef holding up in todays' game.

 

[shazariahl]

I don't intend to take away anything from the Great One, but part of what made him great was his time.

1) Gretz broke in during an expansion period. Like Esposito in the early 70's his numbers are a little inflated because the talent was slightly diluted in the late 70's early 80's.

2) Goaltending size and technique was far behind the sniping and scoring skills of the day. Goalies didn't develop new styles until the 90's. And of course their equipment got bigger - and their frames. I can't imagine Greg Millen or Corrado Micalef holding up in todays' game.

Both of these are fair points, but it's worth noting that Gretzky was on one of those expansion teams. The Oilers were 16th out of 21 teams his first season, and 14th his second, so its not like they were in the same position as Esposito in Boston, where they were an established team beating up on much weaker teams. Gretzky was on the weak team getting often beaten on his first few seasons. As to your second point, I think most of us would agree that goalies today are much better. This is part refinement in technique, part improvements in the technology and equipment, partly because as you mentioned goalies tend to be much larger than the 80s; but the final result is that SV% league-wide today is much higher than it was in Gretzky's day. However, that doesn't really explain why Gretzky was outscoring #2 by nearly 1 PPG in most his best seasons. After all, everyone else in the league was shooting against those same goalies as Gretzky, yet he was putting up 200+ points when other superstars were scoring 120-140 points.

I mean, take his 215 pt season. He scored 163 assists that year. Other than Gretzky himself, of course, and Mario Lemieux, no other player has even scored 163 POINTS in a season. Gretzky had that many assists, and still had 52 goals on top of it. Gretzky has a 10 year span where he averaged 180 pts/year, and a six year span averaging 200 pts. I agree these totals would be lower against today's goalies, but as I said before, everyone else in Gretzky's day was shooting against the same goalies he was, yet no one else ever broke 200 pts, or scored 92 goals, or put up 120 assists, let alone 163.

 

[cupcrazyman]

He got more points than the other guys.

His assists are greater than other players points.

 

[The Panther]

I don't intend to take away anything from the Great One, but part of what made him great was his time.

1) Gretz broke in during an expansion period. Like Esposito in the early 70's his numbers are a little inflated because the talent was slightly diluted in the late 70's early 80's.

2) Goaltending size and technique was far behind the sniping and scoring skills of the day. Goalies didn't develop new styles until the 90's. And of course their equipment got bigger - and their frames. I can't imagine Greg Millen or Corrado Micalef holding up in todays' game.

As others have implied, it's about domination of peers, not about point totals.

Look at Gretzky's place in scoring and at his degree of peer-domination between the 1977 World Juniors and the end of the 1990-91 NHL season. During that period, look at his regular seasons, his playoffs, and his International tournaments. Nobody has ever dominated even half that much over the same time frame.

Then, consider eight straight Hart trophies, most not even seriously challenged by another player.

So, yes, by all means reduce his point totals (and everyone's) from a higher scoring era, but that doesn't affect any of the things I mentioned.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I've never seen more than highlights from his career and I'm not here to question how good he was, I just want to know what made him as good as he was. Physically he looked like a shrimp, but he still dominated games. How?

He was crazy smart. Smarter than Jon Cooper thinks Mitch Marner is even.

He knew what everyone on the ice was going to do before they did.

He did things that people just didn't do. For instance, he was once asked how he saw an open player when there was no reason to know that player was there. His answer: I saw him in the reflection off the glass.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Uh. How the hell did he know where to pass? Didn't look up once.

I think he can track where guys would be in his head. Based on where they were and their habits.
With predictable players that I've played with for a while, I can do the same thing. See them in the D zone and 5 seconds later, I can throw them a pass and they're there. Wayne can do it at an NHL level and probably can keep track of a number of players.