Speculation: What is this team identity?

[andora]

How would you describe Tampa bays identity in the last 3 years?

Whatever you describe it as is obviously what we're trying to replicate

Elite forwards, gritty pain in the ass depth, large steady two way defensemen and a large Russian bear of a goalie.

First words that come to mind are pack mentality

 

[Hellcat]

How would you describe Tampa bays identity in the last 3 years?

Whatever you describe it as is obviously what we're trying to replicate

Elite forwards, gritty pain in the ass depth, large steady two way defensemen and a large Russian bear of a goalie.

Veznia goalie, Norris trophy dman, Hart winner and bottom 6 paying above their pay grade.

First words that come to mind are pack mentality

You say pack mentality, I say a group of men all pulling in the same direction. Probably the same thing said differently.

 

[andora]

Veznia goalie, Norris trophy dman, Hart winner and bottom 6 paying above their pay grade.



You say pack mentality, I say a group of men all pulling in the same direction. Probably the same thing said differently.

Maybe a little yeah but where my mind goes with pack mentality, I think of things like you piss off one of them you piss off all of them or if you're going to fight one of us you better fight all of us. There's absolutely no hesitation it seems for anyone to stand up for anyone else on that team at any given moment

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

That question you asked, is why I started the thread, I in all honesty cannot remember a more scrambly team than this one, yet we win, we just win games we shouldn't win. I never get the feeling that we consistently control the game. What I see is a team with 4 very high end, elite scoring talent a team that hopes to hold on long enough until one of their world class forwards scores. We don't generate a lot of offence from the back end.

Are we relying a little too much on individual talent vs team structure? Maybe the scrambly game is actually the plan, swarm style offences have worked well in the past.

I think this is an unfair assessment of this team. And if this scouting report were accurate it still doesn’t account for why the Leafs have such a low total of goals against and GA/PG, top 5 in both categories. Leafs either have a great goalie or are well structured defensively.

 

[geo25]

Saying they are easy to defend against is hilarious as they are usually one of the top-scoring teams during the regular season and in the playoffs, I believe they have outscored each team they played in recent rounds. You'd think if it was easy they would score less.



Obviously, there are some people who make up stories in their heads and think they are easy to defend against, but those people don't live in reality.

Reality IS we have done ZERO in the playoffs....

 

[HockeyVirus]

I swear this is the only team that can be top 5 all year, top of the league defensively all year, go out and acquire a bunch of players known for their ability to play in physical games and then say we have no identity. Reading this thread you'd think we were barely holding onto the last wildcard spot.

This is a symptom of not watching other teams I think. Our fan base thinks other teams play perfectly in every situation and never have breakdowns. They think teams are throwing bone crushing body checks every shift for 82 games.

Anyways, the identity of the team is pretty simple. Defensively responsible team that can score. Our depth players all have 1 of 2 qualities. They are either defensively elite or physical or both. Our defense are all shutdown defenders first outside of Rielly. And our core up front now has ROR giving us the ability to create matchup nightmares regardless of who we play.

 

[Le Magnifique]

"Play to their level of competition."

 

[SprDaVE]

a good team

 

[GoonieFace]

Our offensive generation in the playoffs against Columbus and Montreal was equal to or better than it was in the regular season those years, even though Columbus was the best defensive team in the league. Our conversion was limited those years, but that was by a mixture of top tier goaltending, injuries to top converters, puck luck (like Matthews hitting the most posts in the playoffs that year, despite only playing 1 round), a 5 month break before playoffs, etc., not by "being easy to defend against".

In the Matrix, the Leafs would be unstoppable. I love the long laundry list of excuses as to why they are the greatest losers in recent playoff history.

 

[fancy lad]

at this point i identify this team as: "Good at everything".

Earlier in the year they were soft, but i think that has changed with the in season trades.

They're as well rounded a leafs team as we have seen in decades.

 

[D00bis]

Balanced

 

[justashadowof]

We know what their identity has been: a team that seems incapable of pushing itself in the playoffs to get past its opponent. As someone called it above: a team that plays to the level of its opponent (and not beyond).

Each playoff appearance is an opportunity to break the pattern.

 

[Hellcat]

I think this is an unfair assessment of this team. And if this scouting report were accurate it still doesn’t account for why the Leafs have such a low total of goals against and GA/PG, top 5 in both categories. Leafs either have a great goalie or are well structured defensively.

High possession teams tend to have good defensive metrics, no?

 

[Hellcat]

I swear this is the only team that can be top 5 all year, top of the league defensively all year, go out and acquire a bunch of players known for their ability to play in physical games and then say we have no identity. Reading this thread you'd think we were barely holding onto the last wildcard spot.

This is a symptom of not watching other teams I think. Our fan base thinks other teams play perfectly in every situation and never have breakdowns. They think teams are throwing bone crushing body checks every shift for 82 games.

Anyways, the identity of the team is pretty simple. Defensively responsible team that can score. Our depth players all have 1 of 2 qualities. They are either defensively elite or physical or both. Our defense are all shutdown defenders first outside of Rielly. And our core up front now has ROR giving us the ability to create matchup nightmares regardless of who we play.

Have you seen our physical play noticeably change in the last 3 weeks? I have not. Toronto is 18th in hits, 22nd in hit differential. Since TDL we have scored exactly one goal more than we allowed. Our GAA is 3.33 in those three weeks? Is that a top 5 defensive team? PK is 76.7% over that time, is that a top 5 defensive team? .902 sv% is that a top 5 defensive team? It's odd to me that you take offence to people asking simple questions, then infer your misinformed opinion as to why the question was asked. Adults ask, children assume. Be better.

NHL Standings 2023-2024

NHL Standings based on games between Mar 1, 2023 and Mar 20, 2023.

www.quanthockey.com

 

[Dekes For Days]

In the Matrix, the Leafs would be unstoppable. I love the long laundry list of excuses as to why they are the greatest losers in recent playoff history.

They're not excuses. They're the facts of the situation, that counter the false claim that was being made.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

We haven't seen it yet .. this is regular season hockey .. playoff hockey is 20% faster with much less time and space for passing .. we will only see in a month or so if our G and D can handle it

 

[ShaneFalco]

To date - excllent regular season team who can't or won't turn it up in the playoffs. And a coach who doesn't help matters

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Have you seen our physical play noticeably change in the last 3 weeks? I have not. Toronto is 18th in hits, 22nd in hit differential. Since TDL we have scored exactly one goal more than we allowed. Our GAA is 3.33 in those three weeks? Is that a top 5 defensive team? PK is 76.7% over that time, is that a top 5 defensive team? .902 sv% is that a top 5 defensive team? It's odd to me that you take offence to people asking simple questions, then infer your misinformed opinion as to why the question was asked. Adults ask, children assume. Be better.

NHL Standings 2023-2024

NHL Standings based on games between Mar 1, 2023 and Mar 20, 2023.

www.quanthockey.com

Those stats look bad, but so do other supposedly good teams if we look at the same time frame. Contenders like Colorado and Tampa have a worse GA/GP in the same time frame, as do Edmonton and Dallas. Yeah our PK has been shit recently, but so has Tampa’s. Our save percentage has been poor, but we rank higher than Tampa in that span, and higher than Edmonton, New Jersey, Carolina, Dallas, and Colorado.

It’s taking time for the Leafs to integrate all the new faces, but one bad 2/3 of a month shouldn’t negate the previous 50~ games of good defensive play.

As for physicality, our hit differential is just behind Tampa in terms of hit differential, and we come out higher in that regard than Edmonton, Vegas, Minnesota, Colorado, Dallas, LA, and Carolina. In terms of raw hits made we rank higher than Edmonton, Florida, New Jersey, Minnesota, Colorado, the Islanders, and Carolina.

 

[authentic]

Clearly a defensive team. Every player aside from Rielly has some sort of useful defensive ability. Especially the depth players. The plan is for the top players to create offense and everyone else to hold their own

Do you believe it's a problem we're being outshot every game now though, and do you expect this to continue? Don't most defensive teams with the offense we have dominate possession a lot more? Don't get me wrong, once we get O'Reilly back and figure out our regular defense pairings I fully expect this to turn around but even still you figure we shouldn't have much problem there with the lineup we have already.

The Leafs are easy to defend. Teams have done it repeatedly. Keep them to the outside, be physical, collapse to the front of the net when required, and take away their rush chances. What they have learned is to do that to other teams, minus the "be physical", part which I think will happen more frequently in the playoffs.

The physical play is always overblown for being one of our weaknesses. We always do better earlier in the series when the games are more physical. We just can't score enough when we need to in game 6 and 7.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Have you seen our physical play noticeably change in the last 3 weeks? I have not. Toronto is 18th in hits, 22nd in hit differential. Since TDL we have scored exactly one goal more than we allowed. Our GAA is 3.33 in those three weeks? Is that a top 5 defensive team? PK is 76.7% over that time, is that a top 5 defensive team? .902 sv% is that a top 5 defensive team? It's odd to me that you take offence to people asking simple questions, then infer your misinformed opinion as to why the question was asked. Adults ask, children assume. Be better.

NHL Standings 2023-2024

NHL Standings based on games between Mar 1, 2023 and Mar 20, 2023.

www.quanthockey.com

So you are throwing out 4 months of sample size and complaining about 3 weeks where we had multiple new players come in and try to find their fit with the team? Also in that time, Matt Murray comes back from injury and has 2 pretty meh games and a decent 3rd one. Also in that time frame, the Leafs face all the top offenses in the league in the Oilers(x2), Sabres(x2), and honestly just a pretty brutal schedule as far as the quality of the teams.

Have they been their best the past few weeks no IMO. But also you can pull a sample size to fit any narrative you want. Take your own advice and be better

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Do you believe it's a problem we're being outshot every game now though, and do you expect this to continue? Don't most defensive teams with the offense we have dominate possession a lot more? Don't get me wrong, once we get O'Reilly back and figure out our regular defense pairings I fully expect this to turn around but even still you figure we shouldn't have much problem there with the lineup we have already.

Well it's definitely a problem. Long term success rarely goes hand in hand with getting badly outshot/outchanced. But I don't really expect it to continue. They're pretty much playing for nothing, and Keefe keeps trying new things that makes it hard for players to really settle in. I think it may even be good for them to realize that to win games, sometimes you won't be able to play that puck possession game they're comfortable with. Sometimes you have to weather a storm and rely on good goaltending and clutch scoring to win, which is something they've historically not been able to do. That's not a great strategy for every game, but you have to be able to do it sometimes. There's going to be moments against Tampa where they're going to be spending extended time in their own end, and just have to be as structured as possible and score on counterattacks.

The Leafs have had many beautiful looking losses this year. So many games where they dominate puck possession, but for whatever reason can't break through and just find a way to lose. I don't really have any major qualms with them winning ugly for right now, as long as they get things together by the playoffs

 

[egd27]

Our offensive generation in the playoffs against Columbus and Montreal was equal to or better than it was in the regular season those years, even though Columbus was the best defensive team in the league. Our conversion was limited those years, but that was by a mixture of top tier goaltending, injuries to top converters, puck luck (like Matthews hitting the most posts in the playoffs that year, despite only playing 1 round), a 5 month break before playoffs, etc., not by "being easy to defend against".

In the Matrix, the Leafs would be unstoppable. I love the long laundry list of excuses.

They're not excuses.

They aren't?

ex·cuse

noun
/ikˈskyo͞os,ekˈskyo͞os/
1. a reason or explanation put forward to defend or justify a fault or offense.

 

[Dekes For Days]

They aren't?

Nope. They're simply the things that actually impacted conversion. Being "easy to defend against" (the original claim) wasn't one of them.

 

[egd27]

Nope. They're simply the things that actually impacted conversion. Danault (the original claim) wasn't one of them.

Do you want me to tell the Oxford Dictionary folks they got the definition wrong or will you do it?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Do you want me to tell the Oxford Dictionary folks they got the definition wrong or will you do it?

Oxford dictionary wasn't wrong. You were.