What is the best club football rivalry?

[Civetty]

The best rivalries in soccer are international, not club

Not true at all. Besides, most of the international games that would be really heated are not allowed to play against each other. Happens sometimes anyway due to odd circumstances, but very rarely.

 

[Albatros]

Some of the worst are in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th divisions. That's where the true crazy and racists are like in Germany.

One of the worst I've seen is Star Starachowice vs Siarka Tarnobrzeg. Not sure if you can find stuff on YouTube, but they hide flares and rocks on their children like Boca Junior fans do.

Though in Germany most big clubs have done a decent job marginalizing such elements at least since the 1990s, in Poland they're still there and quite openly so, but at higher levels most teams already have modern stadiums with modern security measures, plus the police invests way more resources in keeping them civil. Yet fan relations are byzantine and also more prominent factions often enough find opportunities at lower levels. I used to go to Motor Lublin matches when they still played in lower leagues at a derelict speedway track, they're tight with the fans of Śląsk Wrocław but have beef with those of every other major club in Poland. Or also for example those of Elana Toruń who in turn are allied with Widzew Łódź who hate Śląsk Wrocław... Great opportunities for boneheads from across the country to get together and do their thing.

 

[maclean]

An interesting side aspect is friendships between teams and the effect on derbies. For example the fans of Czech team Baník Ostrava have an official friendship with the hooligans of GKS Katowice, while nearby Opava has ties with Śląsk Wrocław. This was only especially relevant during the years when Ostrava and Opava were in the same league

 

[gary69]

By default it's still Kraków (Cracovia & Wisła), but given that they're not in the same league currently right now as in 2023/24 I'll go for:

1. Silesia (Górnik Zabrze & Ruch Chorzów) - Ekstraklasa

Two historically very successful clubs together in the top flight for the first time in years, Ruch fighting a losing battle against relegation and their recently more successful local rivals Górnik delivered a few nails to that coffin in the derbies this season.




2. Łódź (ŁKS & Widzew) - Ekstraklasa

Both teams have over the last decade went through the hell of bankruptcy and 4th tier amateur football, now rejoined for the first time in a long while at the highest level.




3. Trójmiasto (Arka Gdynia & Lechia Gdańsk) - I Liga

The top two teams in the second-tier I Liga, have been separated for a few years and now unusually successful together as both are likely to go up and get to fight for the glory of that league title head-to-head. Lechia vs. Arka still coming up May 18-19




4. Rzeszów (Resovia & Stal) - I Liga

Both have decades of agony behind and have now enjoyed 2nd league football together for a couple of years, really reclaiming their place among the big derbies in the calendar rather than just the most underrated one. They're also sharing the same somewhat rustic stadium and the fans of the hosting team get the main stand which adds to the nostalgic derby atmosphere.




5. Poznań (Lech & Warta) - Ekstraklasa

Lech Poznań has no reason to take Warta all that seriously, it's not a real rivalry and there's no particular fierceness, but nevertheless they're now both in the highest league and actually form the most elite derby in Poland when it comes to success on the field right now.

I guess we will never see them amongst the best Polish teams anymore, but back in the 1970's Stal Mielec was doing very well, led by great Grzegortz Lato.

I saw that their stadium capacity is now only 7000. Seems impossible for a club from a smallish town to compete against clubs from big cities like Warzaw.

 

[S E P H]

Though in Germany most big clubs have done a decent job marginalizing such elements at least since the 1990s, in Poland they're still there and quite openly so, but at higher levels most teams already have modern stadiums with modern security measures, plus the police invests way more resources in keeping them civil. Yet fan relations are byzantine and also more prominent factions often enough find opportunities at lower levels. I used to go to Motor Lublin matches when they still played in lower leagues at a derelict speedway track, they're tight with the fans of Śląsk Wrocław but have beef with those of every other major club in Poland. Or also for example those of Elana Toruń who in turn are allied with Widzew Łódź who hate Śląsk Wrocław... Great opportunities for boneheads from across the country to get together and do their thing.

This sort of social identity happens in all countries, I just pinpointed Germany because it is more "documented." The smaller the team becomes, the higher the levels of group polarisation and mass society theory take place. If you don't know what Mass society theory is, it is a theory that describes that socially isolated people (based on traits/upbringing/environment) are vulnerable to the appeals of extremist movements. So low-level clubs tend to attract people who are more likely to be xenophobes, racists, aggression, anti-social personality disorder, and whatever else.

There's also the ability of cross-country rivalries too, for example, when CSKA and Lazio met in the CL decades back, it was one of the most violent clashes we've seen in a long time.

 

[Albatros]

This sort of social identity happens in all countries, I just pinpointed Germany because it is more "documented." The smaller the team becomes, the higher the levels of group polarisation and mass society theory take place. If you don't know what Mass society theory is, it is a theory that describes that socially isolated people (based on traits/upbringing/environment) are vulnerable to the appeals of extremist movements. So low-level clubs tend to attract people who are more likely to be xenophobes, racists, aggression, anti-social personality disorder, and whatever else.

There's also the ability of cross-country rivalries too, for example, when CSKA and Lazio met in the CL decades back, it was one of the most violent clashes we've seen in a long time.

Smaller clubs can definitely be prone to takeovers, but these come typically almost entirely from the outside. Like FC St. Pauli mostly by chance emerged as a place of refuge for left-leaning countercultures in the 1980s when they found no oxygen within "their" HSV. FC St. Pauli was the second club in a major city, but financially weak and with only a small preexisting fanbase. So punks could just come in from HSV and take over with barely any objections.

Or BFC Dynamo as the much-despised Stasi club in East Berlin, no one liked them by default so Neonazis and other asocials could join in and embrace their own interpretation of that image. Since major clubs have by and large already kicked this type of people out, they have occasionally made systematic attempts to take over struggling clubs with some existing support, like Alemannia Aachen for example. Bring in sufficient muscle from across the region and chase people with conflicting political ideals out, then arrange with those indifferent enough to have stayed and try to influence them. But even these cases are outliers.

In Poland practically all politically active supporters are either right-wing populist or right-wing extremist, and as good as every club's supporter scene is dominated by them. There have been clashes with apoliticals like when Polonia fans just fought among themselves when they played rival Legia's reserves some years ago, but by and large the scene is an established recruitment tool for the far-right including elements of organized crime and whatnot. There the dynamics are much more akin to the description above.

Big boys like to test themselves against the best also internationally. When Lazio was in Warsaw I was right behind the fence next to the Irriducibili, but there was zero trouble or unpleasantries during the match because Legia's relevant groups (who are aligned with Juventus) were boycotting the game and could only be fought outside the stadium which then did happen.