What is objectionable about "grinding"?

[lou4gehrig]

Grinding as used my MT is like socialism. It's forced on all the players to play the exact style of game so they all can be use interchangeably. So a Paul Byron and a Dale Weise can play on the same lines as MaxPac and Chucky.

It's saying, "Chucky, you're not good enough defensively so you go to the wing for 3 years." Because he's 18-20 and still developing physically. All at the expense of offense.

I suppose this all works when you have the best player in the world in goal winning the Hart, but ultimately we would have won more had we developed our offense equivalently. Imagine Price playing on Dallas? That'd be the cup favorite.

As is the case with most things during the MT era, it's not so much what happens as it is what's not happening. What things are we missing out on with this one-dimensional, rigid coach? We have some elite, unique skillsets (namely PK), that are forced to capitulate to this common man style.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Grinding as used my MT is like socialism. It's forced on all the players to play the exact style of game so they all can be use interchangeably. So a Paul Byron and a Dale Weise can play on the same lines as MaxPac and Chucky.

It's saying, "Chucky, you're not good enough defensively so you go to the wing for 3 years." Because he's 18-20 and still developing physically. All at the expense of offense.

I suppose this all works when you have the best player in the world in goal winning the Hart, but ultimately we would have won more had we developed our offense equivalently. Imagine Price playing on Dallas? That'd be the cup favorite.

As is the case with most things during the MT era, it's not so much what happens as it is what's not happening. What things are we missing out on with this one-dimensional, rigid coach? We have some elite, unique skillsets (namely PK), that are forced to capitulate to this common man style.

Don't let reality get in the way of your narrative.

Jeff Petry, for example, SPECIFICALLY said on TV that he was told by the team brass when they acquired him to support the rush and try to create 3-on-2s and 4-on-3s.

If Petry was told this, then surely Subban has been told the same.

 

[ChikN]

Don't let reality get in the way of your narrative.

Jeff Petry, for example, SPECIFICALLY said on TV that he was told by the team brass when they acquired him to support the rush and try to create 3-on-2s and 4-on-3s.

If Petry was told this, then surely Subban has been told the same.

 

[BLONG7]

Don't let reality get in the way of your narrative.

Jeff Petry, for example, SPECIFICALLY said on TV that he was told by the team brass when they acquired him to support the rush and try to create 3-on-2s and 4-on-3s.

If Petry was told this, then surely Subban has been told the same.

And this happened the first 6-8 weeks of the season, where we had possesion and fed the dman joining the rush.................then we switched it up because MT reverted back, and you can no longer do this, because of the chip and chase directive....hence a four month slide. We became the worst team in the league...

 

[Kraniumm]

First off, the grinding system Therrien forces upon us is terrible compared to real grinding system like in LA. Second of all look at LA's roster compared to ours. That is the kind of team you use a grinding system with.

Definitely good points. The way our team is built, there are just way too many differences in strengths/weaknesses from line to line to use a "cookie cutter" approach that leaves them unprepared to "skill their way out of" a tough spot against another hard-working opponent (see: playoffs).

The problem is that people assume that bc he's a head coach, "grind em" must actually have sound systematic principles.

It doesn't, as evidenced by both the on ice lack of cohesion and the behind the scenes glimpses of player/coach communication and "instruction".


There is no "grinding" system, all approaches to the game that involve strategy incorporate some form of wearing the opposition down either physically or emotionally.

A real coach balances btw installing & perfecting a certain philosophical approach to controlling the play with adjusting to the strengths/weaknesses of the roster at his disposal. There is a necessary fluidity & adjustment factor while sticking to high level philosophical tenets about the most effective way to succeed that great coaches navigate better than the rest.

Therrien's approach lacks any of this. He's about as superficial a sport mind as you can find. A guy with a good work ethic, charisma, and who lucked into being at the right place in the right time. That he lacks any real skill in the art of coaching is beyond apparent.

"But he's coached 750 NHL games"...

As a wise person I know once said, some people have 25 years of experience, others have 25 X 1 year of experience. Therrien exemplified the latter.


Personally, I'd love to see the Habs play a physically imposing style of game. But that starts with discipline & character (both elements this management team has shown no understanding of how to cultivate) & then requires systematic roster adjustments to assemble individuals capable of playing that style.

You don't extend guys like Desharnais, sign UFA's like briere/flash/semin/Gilbert/sekac or trade for guys like Ryder/gonchar/pap/vanek if that's the style of game you want to build around. (Anyone one of those isn't an issue, it's the collective accumulation of moves that all reflect a lack of cohesive decision-making)

We have a small, speedy roster, with a D that has above average mobility & puck skills and an all world goalie... The roster is built for a run & gun/puck possession based approach, yet the coach has no clue how to build the necessary attention to detail & responsibility necessary to succeed that way.


OP is wrong to assume the issue is with "grinding" or with approach in general... The issue is that our leadership lacks the competence or conviction to actually build any consistent system or style. The Habs don't have any real system, nor any consistency of personnel...

Bingo. Don't really need to add much more than that.

 

[BaseballCoach]

And this happened the first 6-8 weeks of the season, where we had possesion and fed the dman joining the rush.................then we switched it up because MT reverted back, and you can no longer do this, because of the chip and chase directive....hence a four month slide. We became the worst team in the league...

Actually Petry said this LAST season when he joined the team, while many posters ignored reality and claimed back then that Therrien did not want his defencemen to do anything but get the puck out of the zone and then be passive.

The same posters who claimed that Andrighetto was "unjustly demoted to the fourth line after three great games in the top 6" (neither half of the statement is true), all the time while Andrighetto himself said that he KNEW he had started to coast a bit and was not playing the way he knew he had to play and ought to play.

 

[Habs76]

Grinding is a defensive style, no? When we're grinding, we should be playing decent defense, not. . .

This.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Actually Petry said this LAST season when he joined the team, while many posters ignored reality and claimed back then that Therrien did not want his defencemen to do anything but get the puck out of the zone and then be passive.

The same posters who claimed that Andrighetto was "unjustly demoted to the fourth line after three great games in the top 6" (neither half of the statement is true), all the time while Andrighetto himself said that he KNEW he had started to coast a bit and was not playing the way he knew he had to play and ought to play.

Really so why is he back on the forth now? Do you honestly think every single guy ahead of him deserves to be there. Matteau?

 

[GREMLIN]

Getzlaf, Benn, Toews, etc. all rely heavily on grinding in their game.

The Cup winning teams are all great at grinding, they just have other skills as well. The problem with MT is he doesn't seem to have much interest for a lot of the other aspects that help you win games, he's obsessed with winning battles just like the other 29 coaches, his problem is he doesn't seem to know how to teach what to do once you get the puck other than dump it in in order to engage another fight for the puck.

Grinding isn't a bad thing, we usually call the players who have a lot of grind but not a lot of skill "grinders", doesn't mean the star players don't grind. Most habs fan here hate MT but love Gallagher when really, Gally is the ultimate grinder except he has decent skill as well.

 

[habalifeok]

To me you have to grind it out for a large portion of games especially if you are banged up and less than 100%. You cant just take the night off and stand around. Moving your feet can be "hard" when you are tired especially when a lot of players look more like cadavers than humans. The 82 game schedule demands everyone grind to a certain degree.

 

[NobleSix]

Well first of all, there's nothing wrong with being a grinding team if the team is built for it and can play such a game successfully.

With that said, you don't base your entire team philosophy on grinding in the corners when 4 out of the 6 players usually playing in the top 6 are, in no way close to, grinding players. Also, why implement a grinding philosophy when the team was built on speed and a quick transition game? Grinding slows down the game, which completely neuters the team's strengths. Its a rediculous match, and a perfect example of Therrien's inability to adjust and implement suitable team systems.

I hear "We r a grynding teem! Accep it!", look at Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Desharnais, and Plekanec in the top 6, Markov, Beaulieu, Subban, and Petry in the top 4, then immediately laugh in Therrien's face. He seriously has no clue whatsoever.

 

[TRG]

 

[MaxDummy]

The problem is not grinding.. It's the thinking..

"grind deez guiz"
"efforts alwayz beats talent"

 

[googlymoogly]

You can grind if you have a team like the 86 Habs. When Chelios is considered small you know you have a big team. About the only guy who couldn't grind was Naslund and he didn't need to, he was too busy assisting his team mates with goals.


On today's team Naslund would be tougher than over half the team

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Grinding is fine but a balance is necessary.

People exaggerate with the grinding talk because in this league you gotta battle. Skill alone is the caps from a decade ago.

Again, a balance is necessary. We're too much on one side and given that players aren't built for it it's strange.

 

[rafal majka]

As per the by now infamous "grind 'em" video, Therrien wants his team to go wide and then put it to the net with someone there to pick up the garbage. No cycling in the corner or anything as this constitutes "trying to be fancy and cute". Therrien wants "chip and chase".

There is a time for dump-and-chase obviously but it shouldn't be a "smaller" Habs team's predominant strategy. There are stats out there that show that zone entries with possession provide over 2 times as many shots and about 2 times as many goals. Therrien seems oblivious to that fact.

 

[DJ Breadman]

Speed and skill will always beat grinding which is the way the game is going. Still some successful grinders out there but you can't force a grinding system on a small soft team. When you have guys like DD playing 20 min a game he isn't going to out grind anyone. Neither is plekanic, those are your one and two centers.